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420Peace All Medical Marijuana Warriors,

 

A Call to Arms...

We are All needed in Kalkaska July, 15th 2010.

Please find a way to be there.

Let the Marijuana Haters hear us with one voice.

We will Not stand by while you subvert the Law!

We will vote/recall/jury nolification you out of power.

We are comming to take Archie and his Son off the MMJ Battle Field.

Can You be there to Support Archie & Help Yourself?

The time for Action is Now...

Where:

Kalkaska County Circuit Courtwww.circuit46.org605 North Birch Street

Kalkaska, MI 49646-8414

(231) 258-3300

 

Why:

Re: MINORML-TALK: Fw: MI Medical Marijuana Act - Court News Update with Eric L. VanDussen‏From:<IMG style="DISPLAY: none" id=P___1613362770 webimdisplayStyle="inline"> owner-minorml-talk@norml.net on behalf of Matthew Abel (attorneyabel@riseup.net) Sent:Tue 6/15/10 8:01 AMTo: MiNORML Group (minorml-talk@norml.net)Clones are plants, and it is wrong to tell people otherwise.

 

(5) As used in this section, “plant” means a marihuana plant that has

produced cotyledons or a cutting of a marihuana plant that has

produced cotyledons.

 

On May 26, 2010, at 1:04 AM, Rev. Steven B. Thompson wrote:

 

> Eric did an excellent job on this, but ironically, Robert

> Downes,Editor has come out against Archie (and those of us that

> support him) in his "Random Thoughts"!! You can read at www.northernexpress.com

> . I know that this is short notice, but we need lte's by Wednesday

> (tomorrow) 12 noon. Robert has been misinformed about Archie's case.

> Here are the FACTS:

> Archie was charged with 30 plants too many (21 of 66 total counted

> as plants were clippings that he had just cut on the morning of the

> raid....no roots!!). So the actual count should have been 45 plants

> (with roots!).

> At time of raid (in August), Archie had his patient card, 2

> caregiver cards, and paperwork (recommends from doctors signed on

> July 24) for 2 more patients, naming him their caregiver. This

> entitled him by our new law to have a total of 60 plants, but he

> only had 45 plants (with roots) when he was raided. HE WAS ACTUALLY

> UNDER HIS LIMIT BY THE NEW LAW!!

> So far, the court,Belcher,and Donnelly still are stating that the 21

> clippings were plants, refuse to accept the 2 patient's paperwork as

> legit at time of raid, and Donnelly has furthered his harrassement

> of Archie by filing perjury charges against him (and his patient/

> son), stating that they lied under oath about when their papers were

> sent to the state (remember the doctors signed them on July 24,

> making them legit patients). And yet, Belcher and Donnelly have both

> been caught in lies in the court, but have they been charged with

> perjury?!

> At this last hearing, Donnelly stated to the judge,"your honor, this

> new law as written can't possibly be this simple!" Well it is, and

> it was written the way it was to PROTECT THE PATIENTS & CAREGIVERS

> from arrogant,self-righteous so-called professionals like Mr.Belcher

> and Mr.Donnelly.

> All of this sad mess, this waste of time & taxpayer's money, this

> unjust harrassement of a LEGAL PATIENT/CAREGIVER will come to a head

> at 9am on July 15 when Archie and his son's jury trial begins.

> Donnelly has even asked the judge to NOT allow defense to argue the

> new law to the jury because it will only confuse them. Can you

> say,"JURY NULLIFICATION?!"

> Michigan NORML members from around the state will be there to show

> their support for the Archie Kiel family, so please join us. We

> would not be there if Archie had broken our new law!

> One final note: We need to retire Kip Belcher,Brian Donnelly,and

> closed,narrow-minded people like them because not only are they a

> drain on our taxpayer money, but more important, they are a huge

> hinderance to ALL of us moving forward to change for the

> better....real change that we can actually believe in!!

 

> Rev.Steven B.Thompson,Executive Director

> Michigan NORML

> 6215 Smeltzer Rd.

> Benzonia,MI 49616

> (231) 882-4496

> www.minorml.org

>

>

> ‘Yes We Cannabis!!'

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 5/24/10, Eric VanDussen <ericlvandussen@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> From: Eric VanDussen <ericlvandussen@gmail.com>

> Subject: MI Medical Marijuana Act - Court News Update with Eric L.

> VanDussen

> To:

> Date: Monday, May 24, 2010, 1:28 PM

>

> Northern Express letter to the editor: http://digital.zoomp...cation/?i=38931

>

> By Eric L. VanDussen - Beulah

>

> Last July, the Northern Express featured the story of a vocal

> medical marijuana patient/caregiver. A few weeks later, the

> Traverse Narcotics Team’s helicopter was hovering over Archie Kiel’s

> property near Kalkaska.

>

> Kiel was ultimately arrested and charged with growing more plants

> than Michigan’s medical marijuana law allows. TNT only confiscated

> around half of Kiel’s marijuana plants, which left him with about 30.

>

> Within the confines of this letter, it would be impossible to

> adequately summarize all of the complex allegations and disputes

> that are at issue in the Kiel case. It’s obviously been difficult

> even for legal scholars to make sense of the newly enacted medical

> marijuana law.

>

> During a recent hearing in the Kiel case, Circuit Judge Janet Allen

> acknowledged that the act’s ambiguity was troublesome. It “may have

> misled people to think that they could do certain things and take

> their chance in front of a judge later,” said Allen.

>

> Anyone who is interested in becoming more familiar with this case

> can watch the interviews that I recently conducted with Kiel and the

> director of TNT - Michigan State Police Lieutenant Kip Belcher.

>

> The two hour special will be aired on Up North TV (Charter Cable

> channel 97) on Wednesday, May 26, at 8:30 a.m. and Friday, May 28,

> at 3:00 p.m. You can view the streaming video online at: http://www.upnorthme...SDBFid=1909#vid

>

> This production includes a discussion with Kiel as we tour what

> remains of his marijuana grow operation. It also contains an in-

> depth discourse with Lt. Belcher as we examine some of the

> difficulties law enforcement officers and the courts are confronting

> while they attempt to interpret and apply Michigan’s medical

> marijuana law. The piece concludes with footage of a May 17 court

> hearing in the Kiel case and an interview with his attorney.

>

>

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Attachment: http://norml.net/att...9gjZkmhKO6.html

Matthew R. Abel

Attorney at Law

2930 E. Jefferson Avenue

Detroit, Michigan 48207

313-446-2235

attorneyabel@riseup.net

www.cannabiscounsel.com

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Clones are plants, and it is wrong to tell people otherwise.

 

(5) As used in this section, “plant” means a marihuana plant that has

produced cotyledons or a cutting of a marihuana plant that has

produced cotyledons.

 

Matthew R. Abel

Attorney at Law

2930 E. Jefferson Avenue

Detroit, Michigan 48207

313-446-2235

attorneyabel@riseup.net

http://www.cannabiscounsel.com

 

I don't understand why Matt insists on saying this.

 

That old law he quotes does not allow anyone to harvest any crop at all.

 

Every bit of material that would be trimmed from the plant would count as a separate plant. Instantly rendering any patient or caregiver a felon.

 

That old law interferes with our new law. (read the last two sentences above again)

 

Since the old law prevents the harvest of medical marijuana plants, it does not apply to us.

 

It is difficult to understand why Matt would agree with the system to the disadvantage of defendants.

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It appears the judge may not let him present an affirmative defense to the jury. Notice the judge starts to play nervously with her hair, a sign of dishonesty or deception, when she starts bashing section 8 of the law. She claims not to understand how the registry prevents arrest and the affirmative defense only stops prosecution. She also claims that she does not think a person can use the defense that is not registered. The judge needs to read what the ballet said when we voted on this law” Permit REGISTERED and UNREGISTERED patients and primary caregivers to assert medical reasons for using marijuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marijuana.” The language does not get any plainer than that!!

 

Here is the link to the ballet language:

http://inkslwc.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/michigan-ballot-for-2008-proposal-1-medicinal-marijuana/

 

I could not get the old video link to work, but here is another copy of the link

http://www.upnorthmedia.org/watchupnorthtv.asp?SDBFid=1909

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I don't understand why Matt insists on saying this.

 

That old law he quotes does not allow anyone to harvest any crop at all.

 

Every bit of material that would be trimmed from the plant would count as a separate plant. Instantly rendering any patient or caregiver a felon.

 

That old law interferes with our new law. (read the last two sentences above again)

 

Since the old law prevents the harvest of medical marijuana plants, it does not apply to us.

 

It is difficult to understand why Matt would agree with the system to the disadvantage of defendants.

I assume he was just telling us how LEO and the lower courts will probably view cuttings. Change never comes easy and it will take some time for the courts and prosecutors to adjust to the new law. In Keil’s case they took all the rooted plants as evidence and took pictures of the cutting, which would look like plants. I am sure this was done on purpose. Since all the plants in evidence have roots he gets shafted trying to prove that 30 of the plants were just trimmings off the other plants and had no root structure. Federal law and biological definitions say no root=no plant, but we need the courts to affirm that.

 

Since he had doctors’ recommendations for all his patients, affirmative defense covers the patients that did not receive or even apply for their cards yet. Then his plant count becomes a moot point. Let’s hope the court does not poison the jury with poor biased jury instructions. The prosecutor is trying to hide the law from the jury, so the jury is not “confused” by the law.

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I wish I would have knew he was going to be on TV...I would have got him a newer 3MED shirt.lol

I still have some questions about the paperwork thing myself. Guess I better go right to Archie for answers.

And again MSP think they make the law (they dont) and can enforce their ideas with fear.Well I say :donkey: to that.

BTW This new date is the same day Cushingberry is having a meeting in Lansing.

 

Good post thanks for the info. John

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Guest Wayne

Show me the definition of a plant in the new law. Not something thought of at the time. This leaves us with definitions as currently defined by Michigam Compiled Laws. I live in the county that the prosecutor raised the issue in and was at the hearing. No one was more surprised than Matt as we had all made botanical assumptions regarding when a cutting becomes viable. A sad state of affairs but the law is the law. This isn't about Matt's opinion but the application of law. I can understand why this was not of more concern at inception, who'd a thunk? Sucks in that it limits production significantly. Just means we need a better network of caregiver's and more importantly teaching others to grow their own. Be some time before this get's resolved.

 

While not really a positive thing, to date LEO has identified cuttings as plants in instances where they are obviously being cloned ie in cloner, dirt, rockwell, etc with irrigation, heat pads, lights. Not just a pile of clippings laying in the garbage. But be careful. Learn to grow.

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Penutbutter

 

Clones are plants, and it is wrong to tell people otherwise.

 

(5) As used in this section, “plant” means a marihuana plant that has

produced cotyledons or a cutting of a marihuana plant that has

produced cotyledons.

 

Matthew R. Abel

 

I don't understand why Matt insists on saying this.

 

That old law he quotes does not allow anyone to harvest any crop at all.

 

Every bit of material that would be trimmed from the plant would count as a separate plant. Instantly rendering any patient or caregiver a felon.

 

That old law interferes with our new law. (read the last two sentences above again)

 

Since the old law prevents the harvest of medical marijuana plants, it does not apply to us.

 

It is difficult to understand why Matt would agree with the system to the disadvantage of defendants.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I believe the section that Matt refers to is the Michigan controlled substance act. He listed the definition. The other definition is the federal definition, i listed the other day, "that it had to have a root, to the naked eye. I think that if given the choice of the 2 in most Michigan Courts, the Judges are going to apply the former. And any advise from a lawyer should be advise of safety and how LEO is interpreting it, so that people know what to expect and what they are in for.

 

 

Now with that said, i had 2 preliminary exams last week. In both cases i crossed examined the Lead Detectives of the Multijurisdictional task force. One was in Genesee County, the other was in Shiawasse. In the Genessee case the Detective was qualified as an expert, and when asked to define a plant he said "it had to have a root.' In the shiawasse case, the detective was not qualified as an expert, but when asked to define a plant he said also said "it had to have a root.

 

Now keep in mind these narcotic raid crews are made up of state police, county sherrifs, local and federal officers. I believe the training comes from the top, and all of the classes are most likely put on by the dea etc, which would be the explanation that they offered this definition in both cases, when they could have offered the any cutting definition. I did not ask from where they determined that, i know to stop asking questions when i get the right answer. I would suggest that this could possibly be used other cases dealing with the definition of a plant. I believe that this expert that testified in genesee could be called in any case going forward, and under oath, with the transcript in hand from my case, would be compelled to answer the question 'how do you define a plant,with the same answer-it has to have a root.

 

If anyone wants to pass this along to Archie and his counsel i will give them the information or talk to his lawyer. Let me know if i he is interested. I didn't understand if Matt was his lawyer or his comments had just been reposted.

 

 

 

Michael Komorn

Attorney and Counselor

3000 Town Center Ste 1800

Sotufield, MI 48075

Off: 248-357-2550

Mbl: 248-321-5393

Email: Michael@komornlaw.com

Website: www.komornlaw.com

Check out my Radio show

Live Every Wednesday 8-9:00 p.m.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/realtalkfm

Click GreenTrees Radio

Call in Number 347-205-9718

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Guest CaveatLector

 

Now keep in mind these narcotic raid crews are made up of state police, county sherrifs, local and federal officers. I believe the training comes from the top, and all of the classes are most likely put on by the dea etc, which would be the explanation that they offered this definition in both cases, when they could have offered the any cutting definition. I did not ask from where they determined that, i know to stop asking questions when i get the right answer. I would suggest that this could possibly be used other cases dealing with the definition of a plant. I believe that this expert that testified in genesee could be called in any case going forward, and under oath, with the transcript in hand from my case, would be compelled to answer the question 'how do you define a plant,with the same answer-it has to have a root.

 

If anyone wants to pass this along to Archie and his counsel i will give them the information or talk to his lawyer. Let me know if i he is interested. I didn't understand if Matt was his lawyer or his comments had just been reposted.

 

 

 

 

So you are going to compel the Genesee County guy to testify in a case in a different county? And how are you going to do that? If the law enforcement in county x testifies that a plant doesn't need visible roots then you suggest a subpoena of the Genesee county guy to rebut county x's LEO testimony? Huh? Or are you suggesting hiring Gen County guy as an expert and then commence "battle of the experts?"

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So you are going to compel the Genesee County guy to testify in a case in a different county? And how are you going to do that? If the law enforcement in county x testifies that a plant doesn't need visible roots then you suggest a subpoena of the Genesee county guy to rebut county x's LEO testimony? Huh? Or are you suggesting hiring Gen County guy as an expert and then commence "battle of the experts?"

 

 

so now how do we get this to Archie

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I believe the section that Matt refers to is the Michigan controlled substance act. He listed the definition. The other definition is the federal definition, i listed the other day, "that it had to have a root, to the naked eye. I think that if given the choice of the 2 in most Michigan Courts, the Judges are going to apply the former. And any advise from a lawyer should be advise of safety and how LEO is interpreting it, so that people know what to expect and what they are in for.

 

Now with that said, i had 2 preliminary exams last week. In both cases i crossed examined the Lead Detectives of the Multijurisdictional task force. One was in Genesee County, the other was in Shiawasse. In the Genessee case the Detective was qualified as an expert, and when asked to define a plant he said "it had to have a root.' In the shiawasse case, the detective was not qualified as an expert, but when asked to define a plant he said also said "it had to have a root.

 

Err on the side of caution .. check.

 

The CSA definition is highly punitive. It is intended to be harsh toward the marijuana community, including patients.

 

The voters said that it was wrong to apply the CSA to patients in Michigan. The two laws conflict. The MMMA is supposed to win in that case.

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420Peace All Medical Marijuana Warriors,

 

A Call to Arms...

We are All needed in Kalkaska July, 15th 2010.

Please find a way to be there.

Let the Marijuana Haters hear us with one voice.

We will Not stand by while you subvert the Law!

We will vote/recall/jury nolification you out of power.

We are comming to take Archie and his Son off the MMJ Battle Field.

Can You be there to Support Archie & Help Yourself?

The time for Action is Now...

Where:

Kalkaska County Circuit Courtwww.circuit46.org605 North Birch Street

Kalkaska, MI 49646-8414

(231) 258-3300

 

Why:

Re: MINORML-TALK: Fw: MI Medical Marijuana Act - Court News Update with Eric L. VanDussen‏From:<IMG style="DISPLAY: none" id=P___1613362770 webimdisplayStyle="inline"> owner-minorml-talk@norml.net on behalf of Matthew Abel (attorneyabel@riseup.net) Sent:Tue 6/15/10 8:01 AMTo: MiNORML Group (minorml-talk@norml.net)Clones are plants, and it is wrong to tell people otherwise.

 

(5) As used in this section, “plant” means a marihuana plant that has

produced cotyledons or a cutting of a marihuana plant that has

produced cotyledons.

 

On May 26, 2010, at 1:04 AM, Rev. Steven B. Thompson wrote:

 

> Eric did an excellent job on this, but ironically, Robert

> Downes,Editor has come out against Archie (and those of us that

> support him) in his "Random Thoughts"!! You can read at www.northernexpress.com

> . I know that this is short notice, but we need lte's by Wednesday

> (tomorrow) 12 noon. Robert has been misinformed about Archie's case.

> Here are the FACTS:

> Archie was charged with 30 plants too many (21 of 66 total counted

> as plants were clippings that he had just cut on the morning of the

> raid....no roots!!). So the actual count should have been 45 plants

> (with roots!).

> At time of raid (in August), Archie had his patient card, 2

> caregiver cards, and paperwork (recommends from doctors signed on

> July 24) for 2 more patients, naming him their caregiver. This

> entitled him by our new law to have a total of 60 plants, but he

> only had 45 plants (with roots) when he was raided. HE WAS ACTUALLY

> UNDER HIS LIMIT BY THE NEW LAW!!

> So far, the court,Belcher,and Donnelly still are stating that the 21

> clippings were plants, refuse to accept the 2 patient's paperwork as

> legit at time of raid, and Donnelly has furthered his harrassement

> of Archie by filing perjury charges against him (and his patient/

> son), stating that they lied under oath about when their papers were

> sent to the state (remember the doctors signed them on July 24,

> making them legit patients). And yet, Belcher and Donnelly have both

> been caught in lies in the court, but have they been charged with

> perjury?!

> At this last hearing, Donnelly stated to the judge,"your honor, this

> new law as written can't possibly be this simple!" Well it is, and

> it was written the way it was to PROTECT THE PATIENTS & CAREGIVERS

> from arrogant,self-righteous so-called professionals like Mr.Belcher

> and Mr.Donnelly.

> All of this sad mess, this waste of time & taxpayer's money, this

> unjust harrassement of a LEGAL PATIENT/CAREGIVER will come to a head

> at 9am on July 15 when Archie and his son's jury trial begins.

> Donnelly has even asked the judge to NOT allow defense to argue the

> new law to the jury because it will only confuse them. Can you

> say,"JURY NULLIFICATION?!"

> Michigan NORML members from around the state will be there to show

> their support for the Archie Kiel family, so please join us. We

> would not be there if Archie had broken our new law!

> One final note: We need to retire Kip Belcher,Brian Donnelly,and

> closed,narrow-minded people like them because not only are they a

> drain on our taxpayer money, but more important, they are a huge

> hinderance to ALL of us moving forward to change for the

> better....real change that we can actually believe in!!

 

> Rev.Steven B.Thompson,Executive Director

> Michigan NORML

> 6215 Smeltzer Rd.

> Benzonia,MI 49616

> (231) 882-4496

> www.minorml.org

>

>

> ‘Yes We Cannabis!!'

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 5/24/10, Eric VanDussen <ericlvandussen@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> From: Eric VanDussen <ericlvandussen@gmail.com>

> Subject: MI Medical Marijuana Act - Court News Update with Eric L.

> VanDussen

> To:

> Date: Monday, May 24, 2010, 1:28 PM

>

> Northern Express letter to the editor:

>

> By Eric L. VanDussen - Beulah

>

> Last July, the Northern Express featured the story of a vocal

> medical marijuana patient/caregiver. A few weeks later, the

> Traverse Narcotics Team’s helicopter was hovering over Archie Kiel’s

> property near Kalkaska.

>

> Kiel was ultimately arrested and charged with growing more plants

> than Michigan’s medical marijuana law allows. TNT only confiscated

> around half of Kiel’s marijuana plants, which left him with about 30.

>

> Within the confines of this letter, it would be impossible to

> adequately summarize all of the complex allegations and disputes

> that are at issue in the Kiel case. It’s obviously been difficult

> even for legal scholars to make sense of the newly enacted medical

> marijuana law.

>

> During a recent hearing in the Kiel case, Circuit Judge Janet Allen

> acknowledged that the act’s ambiguity was troublesome. It “may have

> misled people to think that they could do certain things and take

> their chance in front of a judge later,” said Allen.

>

> Anyone who is interested in becoming more familiar with this case

> can watch the interviews that I recently conducted with Kiel and the

> director of TNT - Michigan State Police Lieutenant Kip Belcherharassment.

>

> The two hour special will be aired on Up North TV (Charter Cable

> channel 97) on Wednesday, May 26, at 8:30 a.m. and Friday, May 28,

> at 3:00 p.m. You can view the streaming video online at:

>

> This production includes a discussion with Kiel as we tour what

> remains of his marijuana grow operation. It also contains an in-

> depth discourse with Lt. Belcher as we examine some of the

> difficulties law enforcement officers and the courts are confronting

> while they attempt to interpret and apply Michigan’s medical

> marijuana law. The piece concludes with footage of a May 17 court

> hearing in the Kiel case and an interview with his attorney.

>

>

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Attachment:

Matthew R. Abel

Attorney at Law

2930 E. Jefferson Avenue

Detroit, Michigan 48207

313-446-2235

attorneyabel@riseup.net

www.cannabiscounsel.com

 

any one want to go i would love to go if i had money for gas i already ask the dispensary in Ferndale but no Re-ply

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When I talked to Archie he said they will pick jury on July 15th and trial is on 16th,I will be there for both days .

I will be calling Archie this afternoon, And will post if court is still on 15th and 16th. I know you guys are having a hard time with $$ dollars, as is most of the state . I hope a lot more folks can show up for this trial. Bob , I think Archie knows you will be there in spirit if ya cant make it in person . I wish I could help with the gas money .

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I will be calling Archie this afternoon, And will post if court is still on 15th and 16th. I know you guys are having a hard time with $$ dollars, as is most of the state . I hope a lot more folks can show up for this trial. Bob , I think Archie knows you will be there in spirit if ya cant make it in person . I wish I could help with the gas money .

 

 

thanks i hope you can have a Chance to be on the Jury that would be good for him am not so sure it will go that far as when i called him he said he has the PA on the run i know he has been in court for a long time.

 

i did try to get their i even ask for help with gas money from the Ferndale Disp: after all the money they make you would think they would support him but they only support them self's

 

thanks again for your support for Archie and tell him I said i will be with him in Spirit

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