Waterford Pot Providers Were Entrapped By Police-Produced Fake Cards

[+EdwardGlen]

http://macombdaily.com/articles/2010/10/19/news/doc4cbdeb533bccf774258528.txt#blogcomments

 

News.Attorney: Waterford pot providers were entrapped by police-produced fake cards

Published: Tuesday, October 19, 2010

 

Carol Hopkins

For The Macomb Daily

 

 

 

Bill & Candace Teichman were in 51st District Court this afternoon iin fron of Judge Richard D. Kuhn Jr. asking for an OK to use medical marijuana.

 

An attorney for people arrested during the Aug. 25 medical marijuana drug raids is calling the use of bogus cards by undercover officers “entrapment.”

 

As part of the case, it was revealed that medical marijuana cards were created for undercover officers on Oakland County Sheriff’s Office computers, said Jeffrey Perlman, attorney for William and Candace Teichman, who ran Everybody’s Cafe in Waterford Township.

 

The Teichmans were among 16 people arrested during the Aug. 25 drug sweep conducted by a county narcotics team. They were charged in August with counts related to delivery and manufacture of marijuana.

 

The officers then went to the café posing as patients to obtain medical marijuana, Perlman said.

 

“That’s the worst form of entrapment I ever heard of,” Perlman said, calling creation of the cards a crime.

 

John Nussbaumer, dean of Cooley Law School, Auburn Hills campus, said, “Generally speaking, state or local undercover police officers may misrepresent their identities so long as their conduct would not induce an otherwise law-abiding person to commit a crime in similar circumstances and is not so reprehensible that the court cannot tolerate it.”

 

“The law recognizes with certain activities, the only way to investigate is to lie a little,” he said. “So long as their conduct does not go overboard, it does not constitute entrapment.”

 

Perlman said the café people would not have sold to anyone unless they were legal medical marijuana cardholders.

 

Undersheriff Michael McCabe said the undercover officers who purchased marijuana were not registered patients of the caregivers.

 

“(The caregivers) were violating the Michigan Medical Marijuana law,” he said. “This is a smokescreen by the attorney.”

 

Perlman said, “That’s their intepretation.”

 

“A caregiver can sell to someone who is not their patient,” he said. “The act says it is illegal to sell to someone who is not certified by Michigan Department of Community Health, a 2-year felony. That implies the opposite is legal, meaning it is legal to sell to someone who is certified. Patient-to-patient transfers are not illegal.”

 

Oakland County Prosecuting Attorney Jessica Cooper said, “It sounds like he (the defendant) needs some legal advice.

 

“The entrapment defense is available to individuals involved in a criminal act. And who allege they wouldn’t have committed such an act, but for the conduct of the officers.

 

“I believe the defendants have alleged that they have done nothing illegal. Actually the defense wouldn’t apply to the facts in this case either way.”

.

[2d]

It's the same as making a fake ID to buy beer. Does Ms. Cooper even have a law degree?

[DreamWarrior67]

this is BS We need to sue the officers city county anyone involved with this. When we start taking there time and money then maybe they will learn.

[Indicat]

they should be sued for this moo-poo. unbelievable use of entrapment here.

[DreamWarrior67]

Sue for public harrasment dicrimination

 

I think we need to go after everyone! Even the people that turn their noses up to us. The people in my town need to be sued. I get so may dirty looks people discriminate aganist me will not rent to me. even though I can pay. the other day I was picking up a ups package an while waiting there was a branch county road comission worker there waiting for a package as well waiting I heard him talking bad about my truck plates that say DankBud and later I asked him what bring the branch county road commission out here. when he looks at me and say whothe F##K want to know. Then tells me to call his boss if I don't like it.

So I went to see his boss told him all about what had happened and told him this was not acceptable and I would like an apollagy. The man Didn't even write my phone # down. when I asked him about it he say i won't forget. Well I think this is also wrong should have wrote my # down.

And Guess what no I'm Sorry.

 

To me when he was talking about my plates and then told me who the f**k want to know. to me that is DISCRIMINATION.

 

wE NEED TO NAIL THESE PEOPLE TO THE WALL

 

 

[Rashore]

ok, I might be foolish but... Isn't making fake patient ID's to get MM the same sort of no no as making a fake state ID to get alcohol while underage? Or writing up fake prescriptions using real doctors pads and signatures to get drugs illegally from the pharmacy?

To me this article is entrapment.. the LEO made fake ID's to get a person to supply them when that person would never have done so without those fake ID's. They did conduct themselves in a manner that induced an otherwise law abiding citizen to do something illegal. The owner wouldn't have sold to someone without a card.

And er, wouldn't creating the ID's themselves on the copshop computer also count as falsifying state documents since real patients (to my understanding) are handled through the state level? Kind of the same if they made a fake state ID for an officer under 21? I'm pretty sure that's a no no. At least if that ID is used to get the officer into a bar on the hopes of arresting for underage drinking.

 

The paper shield that is the protection to caregivers and patients should not be allowed to be the paper ram that the LEO uses to batter down law abiding doors.

 

Maybe an answer would be to make patient cards as tec savvy as some regular state ID's.

Some cards have holographic insignia embedded into the plastic seething to prove it was issued by the office it was supposed to. Some have a bar code or magnetic strip on them.

If people are expected to carry the card around with them, and that card is the only "proof" one has to provide to a caregiver or dispensary owner, or to try to stave off the LEO, (sort of the point of carrying a card and not a portfolio) then it should be durable and not easily or legally forged. It should be considered entrapment if the LEO makes fake ones to get normally legally responsible people to do something illegal unbeknownst to them.

 

Sorry for the book.. this topic blew me away..

[David1946]

My take on the definition its entrapment. The cannabis would not of been sold with out them presenting the card and how is the dispensary to tell if its a fake?

 

Who ever is in charge of the cards needs to add some type of anti-counterfeiting measures: A bar code that can be scanned and automatically access the MDCH patient/caregiver data base. Photograph, watermark, something.

[peanutbutter]

Oakland County Prosecuting Attorney Jessica Cooper said, “It sounds like he (the defendant) needs some legal advice.

 

This is from the PA that charged a widow with murder of her husband before the cause of death could be determined.

 

That death was found to be of natural causes.

 

This PA is still trying to figure out how to charge the widow with a crime.

[jsburn]

OUTRAGE! OUTRAGE!

[mizerman]

ok, I might be foolish but... Isn't making fake patient ID's to get MM the same sort of no no as making a fake state ID to get alcohol while underage? Or writing up fake prescriptions using real doctors pads and signatures to get drugs illegally from the pharmacy?

To me this article is entrapment.. the LEO made fake ID's to get a person to supply them when that person would never have done so without those fake ID's. They did conduct themselves in a manner that induced an otherwise law abiding citizen to do something illegal. The owner wouldn't have sold to someone without a card.

And er, wouldn't creating the ID's themselves on the copshop computer also count as falsifying state documents since real patients (to my understanding) are handled through the state level? Kind of the same if they made a fake state ID for an officer under 21? I'm pretty sure that's a no no. At least if that ID is used to get the officer into a bar on the hopes of arresting for underage drinking.

 

The paper shield that is the protection to caregivers and patients should not be allowed to be the paper ram that the LEO uses to batter down law abiding doors.

 

Maybe an answer would be to make patient cards as tec savvy as some regular state ID's.

Some cards have holographic insignia embedded into the plastic seething to prove it was issued by the office it was supposed to. Some have a bar code or magnetic strip on them.

If people are expected to carry the card around with them, and that card is the only "proof" one has to provide to a caregiver or dispensary owner, or to try to stave off the LEO, (sort of the point of carrying a card and not a portfolio) then it should be durable and not easily or legally forged. It should be considered entrapment if the LEO makes fake ones to get normally legally responsible people to do something illegal unbeknownst to them.

 

Sorry for the book.. this topic blew me away..

My wife and I feel as you do about the state-issued cards. Here is our suggestion:

 

Keep everything the same. Get your doctor to give you your recommendation. Send your paperwork to MDCH to approve you. But, they should NOT be the one's issuing you your card. They should just send out your approval or denial letter within the 20 day time frame. Then, take that letter to your local Secretary of State Office, have your PICTURE taken, and be issued a Michigan Medical Mari(h)uana Registry Card that would look just like a Driver's License/State I.D. Card.

 

Hell, we could even be charged another fee - the same fee they charge for a Driver's License/State I.D. Card.

 

Then, we'd have the letter from MDCH within 20 days of them receiving your paperwork. Then, you take that letter to Secretary of State and they seem to be able to issue people's Driver's Licenses and State I.D. Cards in a timely manner - usually 10 days to 2 weeks and it is in your hands.

 

The entire process should then get everyone's card in their hands in a much more timely manner of between 30-45 days.

 

There is simply no reason this cannot happen. It could happen. It should happen. It needs to happen.

 

My wife and I were customers at Bill & Candi's restaurant and dispensary. I know that NOBODY was allowed past either door without having the proper documentation every time we were there.

 

Bottom line is this: The people who manufactured the illegal cards AND used them need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent that the law provides for.

 

I'm really looking forward to tomorrow night's radio program!

 

 

Mizerman

[Nameless_Hero]

That is crazy. Wow. The OP's argument seems to be getting worse and worse. Beyond the entrapment issue, this news being made public is actually endangering law-abiding citizens. Think about it. Even as a caregiver, how are you to know if a potential patient is 100% legitimate or not? To me, this is proof of OUR elected officials undermining this whole entire law. This is exactly why prohibition has the opposite affect of what it's intended for. Making people feel like some type of serial killer psychopath for smoking marijuana.

[+Silverblue]

Definite entrapment.

 

Sb

[solabeirtan]

If they're not Patients of the Caregivers, they can't Legally buy Pot . They don't have a Legit Card, they are guilty of VCSA.

 

End of Story.

 

 

[Rob420]

This is from the PA that charged a widow with murder of her husband before the cause of death could be determined.

 

That death was found to be of natural causes.

 

This PA is still trying to figure out how to charge the widow with a crime.

 

She'd probably do better as a "prosecutor" in tehran

[Greg Starks]

My apologies to those of you to whom I dismissed this activity as inconceivable. I wonder how MDCH will feel about being mocked by a county official.

[+Silverblue]

What about the visiting pt? They have to get it from a cg that obviously isn't their own. The law provides for that, I thought.

 

Sb

[ChemistryMan]

That's why we need to vote for medical marijuana friendly sheriffs,judges,and law makers.

[mizerman]

That's why we need to vote for medical marijuana friendly sheriffs,judges,and law makers.

Just make sure you vote for David Leyton if you want to keep our medical marijuana law AND stop having local law enforcement officers like Nazi/Gestapo Brigade of Oakland County marching in lock-step harassing and arresting law-abiding patients and caregivers.

 

We simply must make sure that David Leyton is the next attorney general here in Michigan.

 

 

Mizerman

[+mayorherb]

ok, I might be foolish but... Isn't making fake patient ID's to get MM the same sort of no no as making a fake state ID to get alcohol while underage? Or writing up fake prescriptions using real doctors pads and signatures to get drugs illegally from the pharmacy?

To me this article is entrapment.. the LEO made fake ID's to get a person to supply them when that person would never have done so without those fake ID's. They did conduct themselves in a manner that induced an otherwise law abiding citizen to do something illegal. The owner wouldn't have sold to someone without a card.

And er, wouldn't creating the ID's themselves on the copshop computer also count as falsifying state documents since real patients (to my understanding) are handled through the state level? Kind of the same if they made a fake state ID for an officer under 21? I'm pretty sure that's a no no. At least if that ID is used to get the officer into a bar on the hopes of arresting for underage drinking.

 

The paper shield that is the protection to caregivers and patients should not be allowed to be the paper ram that the LEO uses to batter down law abiding doors.

 

Maybe an answer would be to make patient cards as tec savvy as some regular state ID's.

Some cards have holographic insignia embedded into the plastic seething to prove it was issued by the office it was supposed to. Some have a bar code or magnetic strip on them.

If people are expected to carry the card around with them, and that card is the only "proof" one has to provide to a caregiver or dispensary owner, or to try to stave off the LEO, (sort of the point of carrying a card and not a portfolio) then it should be durable and not easily or legally forged. It should be considered entrapment if the LEO makes fake ones to get normally legally responsible people to do something illegal unbeknownst to them.

 

Sorry for the book.. this topic blew me away..thumb print id.

[peanutbutter]

It is illegal to buy pot in Michigan. That is fact.

 

Ummm .. it may be illegal to "buy pot" but it is completely legal for a patient or caregiver to "acquire" medical marijuana.

 

In spite of claims otherwise, our law intended for patients to be able to medicate. To do so they have to get it somewhere.

[+RevThad]

If I am not mistaken it seems that Ms Cooper is the one that has flawed logic and a bad understanding of the law.

 

There 2 possible scenarios...

 

Either

A. the transactions were legal and the entrapment claim is moot

or

B. the transactions were illegal because of the forged cards, and without the forged cards the accused would have never engaged in the transaction.

 

Hang em' high also forgets that under our laws and judicial process that:

1. she needs to prove a crime was committed

2. a person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of committing that crime

3. until she proves such, a person is not only assumed to be innocent, but also afforded the presumption of being engaged in the medical use of marijuana.

[bobandtorey]

Ummm .. it may be illegal to "buy pot" but it is completely legal for a patient or caregiver to "acquire" medical marijuana.

 

In spite of claims otherwise, our law intended for patients to be able to medicate. To do so they have to get it somewhere.

 

 

didn't want any one to miss this

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v10/n851/a03.html?185

 

posted by GB

[MORE COWBELL]

What about the visiting pt? They have to get it from a cg that obviously isn't their own. The law provides for that, I thought.

 

Sb

 

 

that is the part of the law that the PA is arguing over and the coppers have a problem with-they look at that clause as too broad and it basically legalizes sales-even though its called a 'transfer'-i don think entrapment is the issue...its that any patient can score/get medication from whoever they want to-the LEO seems to have a problem with that-the defendants in good faithto the best of their abilities believed that the 5-o were legitimate patients with legitimate M M cards-

remedies

[1]Photo ID card

[2]all registered caregivers, dispensaries and compassion clubs should be furnished with a database with names or at least a numbered system-like a drivers license number to reference(very big Brother/Sister)against-i dont like that option-i like option #1

 

no legally they dont do sting operations on rite-aid- walmart drugstore pharmacy pharmacists on whether a prescription is real or not............same difference except the state gets tax dollars from every trans action-maybe the state will do photo ID's if everyone started charging sales tax...i dont know

entrapment it is not-its a misinterpretation of the law that the judges need to rule on in favor of innocent MMM users and providers-they may be making this a test case

[phaquetoo]

http://macombdaily.c...xt#blogcomments

 

News.Attorney: Waterford pot providers were entrapped by police-produced fake cards

Published: Tuesday, October 19, 2010

 

Carol Hopkins

For The Macomb Daily

 

 

 

Bill & Candace Teichman were in 51st District Court this afternoon iin fron of Judge Richard D. Kuhn Jr. asking for an OK to use medical marijuana.

 

An attorney for people arrested during the Aug. 25 medical marijuana drug raids is calling the use of bogus cards by undercover officers “entrapment.”

 

As part of the case, it was revealed that medical marijuana cards were created for undercover officers on Oakland County Sheriff’s Office computers, said Jeffrey Perlman, attorney for William and Candace Teichman, who ran Everybody’s Cafe in Waterford Township.

 

The Teichmans were among 16 people arrested during the Aug. 25 drug sweep conducted by a county narcotics team. They were charged in August with counts related to delivery and manufacture of marijuana.

 

The officers then went to the café posing as patients to obtain medical marijuana, Perlman said.

 

“That’s the worst form of entrapment I ever heard of,” Perlman said, calling creation of the cards a crime.

 

John Nussbaumer, dean of Cooley Law School, Auburn Hills campus, said, “Generally speaking, state or local undercover police officers may misrepresent their identities so long as their conduct would not induce an otherwise law-abiding person to commit a crime in similar circumstances and is not so reprehensible that the court cannot tolerate it.”

 

“The law recognizes with certain activities, the only way to investigate is to lie a little,” he said. “So long as their conduct does not go overboard, it does not constitute entrapment.”

 

Perlman said the café people would not have sold to anyone unless they were legal medical marijuana cardholders.

 

Undersheriff Michael McCabe said the undercover officers who purchased marijuana were not registered patients of the caregivers.

 

“(The caregivers) were violating the Michigan Medical Marijuana law,” he said. “This is a smokescreen by the attorney.”

 

Perlman said, “That’s their intepretation.”

 

“A caregiver can sell to someone who is not their patient,” he said. “The act says it is illegal to sell to someone who is not certified by Michigan Department of Community Health, a 2-year felony. That implies the opposite is legal, meaning it is legal to sell to someone who is certified. Patient-to-patient transfers are not illegal.”

 

Oakland County Prosecuting Attorney Jessica Cooper said, “It sounds like he (the defendant) needs some legal advice.

 

“The entrapment defense is available to individuals involved in a criminal act. And who allege they wouldn’t have committed such an act, but for the conduct of the officers.

 

“I believe the defendants have alleged that they have done nothing illegal. Actually the defense wouldn’t apply to the facts in this case either way.”

.

 

 

“(The caregivers) were violating the Michigan Medical Marijuana law,” he said. “This is a smokescreen by the attorney.”

 

Perlman said, “That’s their intepretation.”

 

 

and here is where we have greay area's, in one part of the law it says a c.g cannot supply a non patient! In another part it says a c.g can only have 5 patients! What is it?

Cases like these are going to determine the law, lets hope it comes out on our side and not leo!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[phaquetoo]

Please dont make me find the above observations! if you look you can find it, I know I read it!

Im done phaqing with the law, I just need to lay low and take care of me and mine, ive been thru enough, I know there are peeps out there going thru way more legal bunny muffin then i have, but 3 little possesion charges in 1 yr is enough for me! I give, Im laying low doing my meds and what goes on at home stays at home!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim