Powdery Mildew

[slider7]

This is exactly how propaganda starts.  Someone takes something out of context and makes claims.

 

It's environmentally mobile.  Yes, of course, when irresponsible farmers spray this all over ALL of their crops (i provided a link to show you the food you eat contains myclobutinol residue) it will run off into the surface water and then water tables.  This is common sense.

 

..Due to its persistence, myclobutanil may accumulate in soil with multiple applications..

..Due to its persistence, myclobutanil may accumulate in soil with multiple applications..

..Due to its persistence, myclobutanil may accumulate in soil with multiple applications..

 

 

Let that one sentence ring over and over again in your head as you load up! 

 

Hey, like I said, California uses it like crazy on food crops, must be safe, right?

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, If animals consume kilograms of this bunny muffin raw, you will be in trouble.  How much residue is in a plant that was sprayed with micrograms while in the clone stage?  If you spray this on flowering plants, you're part of the problem.  You're missing that whole concept of IPM, buddy. 

 

 

 

 

The people using this noted lack of mold from using the chemical and nothing really else. The mold spores still exist in the room, correct? Did the chemical change the DNA of the plant to combat mold? No. The chemical must still be present. Kind of like it said on it's toxicology report. It clearly says burning it creates toxic fumes.

 

 

 Should we shun flour as well?

 

 

Your solution is to grow in an aseptic HEPA filtered sterile environment?  Get real.  People do this bunny muffin in outside greenhouses without mold problems. Sterile environment is not the solution.

 

 

 

Strawman? Really? Chum on. Lets talk about what it says on the paper, not anecdotes and logical fallacy.

 

 

 

My solution was clearly stated, there is no solution for most people. Prevention is the name of the game. Treat any new clones coming in or I think you would be at fault for the introduction of the PM. Or maybe from the bottom of your shoe, or that open window, or the plant your wife brought home, etc.

 

 

 

 

I find it a bit ironic that a lot of people are laser-focused on what contaminants might be in their meds but they are clueless when it comes to what contaminants they encounter (at much higher levels) through everyday life.

 

I don't see the irony, really. You can't expect every single person to be an expert in it, and just because some are difficult to avoid encountering doesn't mean you should throw your hands in the air and open the gate to all of them.

 

 

 

Especially one tested in a couple generations of rats and called (mostly) safe.

Edited January 22, 2015 by slider7

[Norby]

PM spores are not everywhere.  I have gone 25 years only having it once and I haven't been near sterile and it came in on a clone.  The PM that affects MJ affects MJ and hops.  The PM you see on your clover will not affect MJ.  If it's not near you the only way you'll bring it in is on a clone.  You do not have to spray more than once or twice to get rid of it.  If you are using it consistently PM WILL build a resistance.

 

When you spray with eagle 20 you have 4 weeks that those plants will act as a death trap, killing any spores that may settle and "sprout" on your mj plants.  By then the other spores should've settled into a final resting place and not be able to settle on a leaf and "sprout". The other side of the coin is to have enough beneficials around on surfaces so that PM can't get a foothold.

 

And if you are spraying your plants for the 2 years it took in the studies to induce sterility there is a bigger problem.  And the mice and rats never got cancer after 2 years of ingestion.  As far as I know it is NOT carcenagenic .

 

A sulfur burn DOES NOT sterilize against PM.  It changes the ph so that PM spores won't find the right conditions to take hold on your plant.  So doing a sulfur burn between crops does nothing but ruin your electronics and metal and stink the place up.

[trichcycler]

cyclohexanone=confirmed animal carcinogen  (MSDS)

naphthalene, heavy aromatic, petroleum distillate solvent naptha =anticipated carcinogen(MSDS)

 

"proper shipping name" Environmentally Hazardous Substance   (MSDS)

exposure can cause narcotic symptoms......making sense now......lol

 

 

 

 

 

cannabis may be the most anti cancer plant known to man, leave it to some of the very first legal growers of this miracle plant  to add the carcinogens to it right from birth! 

If that isn't enough, lets use Naptha solvent to extract from it too?  And then, give it to patients with cancer? what a fugged up mess imo

 

 

No surprise here, America has made cholesterol an indication of a Lipitor deficiency?  

[trichcycler]

Norby. In no way am I judging you in this thread(maybe other threads brother, lol, but not this one)

I would think its sad to see yet another thread end with "PM needs Eagle 20, it works, who cares about the msds stuff anyways, I use it, just look at me"

[trichcycler]

I often hear "it got cold" or "the humidity in MI this summer is crazy" or "I got this clone from a buddy" as the precursor for

the use of chems in the garden, as "an option" for cure. I believe this is a slippery slope at the grow store my man. Why is it an option to grow with substandard environmental controls one might ask? or to "accept clones" from buddies?

 

Reading the forums could make one believe that spraying once in veg is a whole lot cheaper and easier than using proper equipment, and I intend to warn of this misconception, as there is a cost involved with using a commercial farming fungicide in a little indoor grow room, on a medicine intended to treat disease. If a poster is embarrassed to hear the facts of these restricted sprays they could reconsider posting of it. Once the facts are revealed the choice becomes less of an option.

I think "responsible use", anecdotal at best, while speaking of a fungicide with no business in an indoor medicinal grow room is silly. Responsible gardening habits will preclude the use of fungicides completely.

 

Representation including trading clones on the sly, skipping crucial growing basics and using sprays to cover the symptoms of these bad habits should not be as acceptable as advising against it imo.

 

To represent the best we can be for all to see seems to me as the way to be ideally ?

[outsideinthecold]

Thanks for this interesting discussion.

 

My caregiver developed a PM problem after four years of bliss. Rather like an earlier problem with mites, the discovery of PM after a few years of ignorance is not an experience one would knowingly embrace.

 

His first response was to remove all affected plants in the flowering area and correct environmental deficiencies by adding fans and dehumidifiers. Adding a dehumidifier in the flowering area made a big difference as did additional air movement. How much air movement? If a plant doesn't need support to keep it from blowing over adding more fans should be considered.

 

This made a big difference and PM has not been recurrent.

 

E20 was used once-month in the veg space on two occasions. E20 was also used around the outside perimeter of the dwelling once or twice in the spring and early summer. That may have helped as well.

 

Anyway, the problem seems to be under control but as mentioned use of full protective gear when applying any chemical is always a wise precautionary measure.

 

I worked thirty-three years in the oil patch. When I broke out we used benzene as a cleaning solvent. The the company (orEPA) ruled benzene wasn't safe so we went to toluene. That lasted a year or two and then -oops- toluene was determined to be bad so we changed to varsol but that didn't last either. Then there was naphtha (gasoline) for a while but that wasn't acceptable either. Most of us hourly guys just lost interest in this whole dance. All we cared about was cleaning up that nasty black crude that gummed up everything once the light ends boiled off. My crew ended up using benzene until I retired.

 

So it goes.

Edited January 22, 2015 by outsideinthecold

[YesMichigan]

I don't agree that accepting clones from buddies is an irresponsible gardening practice, unless you allow them to infect your crop. It is a common practice, and the way that most patients obtain genetics that work for them. Seeds are not for everyone.

 

To you and GM. Would a quarantine period for clones be a middle ground or can the danger be present weeks before manifestation?

[trichcycler]

I dunno really.

what I do know is that a grower friend of mine got it pretty bad on 7 of his 15 plants in veg.

we put those plants under the hose, dried them and applied neem oil/peppermint oil/soap spray.

 

ah here is the key, then he bought a dehumidifier(duhh?) and a bigger ac unit, and turned up the heat a bit at night.

 

that was two years ago and he hasn't seen it. he runs the same strains to this day. clone of a clone of a clone.

yes, quarantine, treat, and most importantly fix the room would be my advice.

I've seen a Sulphur burn do the same thing, so I believe a fungicide may be a dehumidifier/heater in a bottle. definitely cheaper right.

[Norby]

I've set up a quarantine 20 gal tank with insect barrier rubber banded or strapped around the top.  First step on ANYTHING coming in is now going to be eagle 20, before entering the house.  I may bring it in if it's cold and spray in the aquarium upstairs.  Then into the bug sealed aquarium in a clean tent for 3 days.  I think Neem will be next if it doesn't hurt to combine within the time frame.  Another 3 days in the bug proof aquarium in the clean room.  Last will be a Dr. doom fog in the aquarium to kill anything that may have hatched but didn't feed on the neem or die.  Last will be watering with botanigard for possible root aphids or fungus gnats.  That may be the first day.  I'll try it on a random clone soon to check for toxicity.

  Doing something like this, where everything is applied to a small plant, limits the amount of possible residuals and could save loads of future spraying.  Eagle 20 can be made useless by overspraying as they become immune.  I imagine this is much more of a problem in a maintenance program outside but should still be taken into consideration.  i do like that in most situations the most risk is by the sprayer(grower).  That should keep the spraying to a min. ( I know I sure as hell don't want to spray any more than necessary) or most of the affects(biggest exposure) to the grower.

 

I think it was motercitymeds who suggested spraying everything to make sure he didn't have to spray more.  If I could find the post I'd thank it.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Norby

[Norby]

I think Captain Jack's may be less of a worry after Eagle 20.  I'll probably get them all in there somehow.

[slipstar059]

Greencure followed by Actinovate about 3 days later cleared up my PM, for about 2 years.  TBH if it's on a clone, your better off just tossing it, and starting fresh from seed.  I've seen some bad infestations, and once a plant is infected, once the conditions are right it will happen again.

[garyfisher]

..Due to its persistence, myclobutanil may accumulate in soil with multiple applications..

..Due to its persistence, myclobutanil may accumulate in soil with multiple applications..

..Due to its persistence, myclobutanil may accumulate in soil with multiple applications..

 

 

Let that one sentence ring over and over again in your head as you load up! 

 

Hey, like I said, California uses it like crazy on food crops, must be safe, right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The people using this noted lack of mold from using the chemical and nothing really else. The mold spores still exist in the room, correct? Did the chemical change the DNA of the plant to combat mold? No. The chemical must still be present. Kind of like it said on it's toxicology report. It clearly says burning it creates toxic fumes.

 

 

Strawman? Really? Chum on. Lets talk about what it says on the paper, not anecdotes and logical fallacy.

 

 

 

My solution was clearly stated, there is no solution for most people. Prevention is the name of the game. Treat any new clones coming in or I think you would be at fault for the introduction of the PM. Or maybe from the bottom of your shoe, or that open window, or the plant your wife brought home, etc.

 

 

 

I don't see the irony, really. You can't expect every single person to be an expert in it, and just because some are difficult to avoid encountering doesn't mean you should throw your hands in the air and open the gate to all of them.

 

 

 

Especially one tested in a couple generations of rats and called (mostly) safe.

LOL!  You're repeating yourself and yes you did suggest the closer you can get to "sterile" the better off you are.

 

I refuted your toxicology argument by suggesting don't consume the material.  The LD50 of this chemical is extremely high.  Furthermore, the studies you linked are for chronic exposure.  Are you eating kilograms of this stuff daily?  If so, you may have a problem.  Otherwise, this probably doesn't apply to you.

 

Burning anything will produce "toxic fumes" buddy.  It's called combustion.   Are you aware of this fact?

 

Do you even understand the terms LD50 or chronic exposure?

Edited January 23, 2015 by garyfisher

[Wild Bill]

I've set up a quarantine 20 gal tank with insect barrier rubber banded or strapped around the top.

 

I love the sealed aquarium idea. I've got a high twenty in the basement that I'll use the next time I bring a new cutting in the house.

[garyfisher]

Aquarium would work great.  Then you could also fill it with CO2 to kill all insect pests, right GM?

[trichcycler]

Basically yes. You could offset the oxygen content with many different gases within a sealed environment like a jar, or sealed aquarium, some gases would be more friendly to plants and people than others. This would most definitely kill anything that requires oxygen to survive, as the ppm's of 02 dropped  to a critical level. The C02 directive in this scenario is not to "gas" the pests, but rather lower the ppm's of oxygen.

 

I have done this on more than one occasion with 100% success, dead spiders, gnats, earwigs, moths, flies and some other beetle things. There was nothing crawling alive when I was done.  I saw this in anothers garden with mites, mattress bag, bottled c02.  Simple really, not enough  o2, no life.

[YesMichigan]

Basically yes. You could offset the oxygen content with many different gases within a sealed environment like a jar, or sealed aquarium, some gases would be more friendly to plants and people than others. This would most definitely kill anything that requires oxygen to survive, as the ppm's of 02 dropped  to a critical level. The C02 directive in this scenario is not to "gas" the pests, but rather lower the ppm's of oxygen.

 

I have done this on more than one occasion with 100% success, dead spiders, gnats, earwigs, moths, flies and some other beetle things. There was nothing crawling alive when I was done.  I saw this in anothers garden with mites, mattress bag, bottled c02.  Simple really, not enough  o2, no life.

 

How long would you keep a friendly plant bagged in such a case?

[pic book]

lol@weed herpes

 

you may want to look into a sulfur burner as well: http://www.4hydroponics.com/growroom/pest2.asp?ItemNo=sulfurVaporizer

sulphur burners get thumbs down.  all kinna probs not necessary to f with them, just mix fertilome in water and apply.  probs all gone and wpm gone too.  indooors, outdoors, and greenhouse.

[trichcycler]

How long would you keep a friendly plant bagged in such a case?

some bugs will start flipping out at around 8kppm, by 10k most crawling bugs are dead. the bag was vacuumed first to remove some air, then inflated with c02. seems it took minutes for mites to die in the bag. my room of course takes longer, a few hours w a generator for mine, but depends on seal/size

[YesMichigan]

some bugs will start flipping out at around 8kppm, by 10k most crawling bugs are dead. the bag was vacuumed first to remove some air, then inflated with c02. seems it took minutes for mites to die in the bag. my room of course takes longer, a few hours w a generator for mine, but depends on seal/size

 

Thank you very much.

[Norby]

Nice thing about co2 is that it sinks.  2 holes in a tight fitting lid, one for co2 in and one would push all the air out.  Should work similar to water.  What about mite eggs?  How long can they go without o2?

[YesMichigan]

Dry ice evaporation rate and Co2 emission. If this is too far off-topic I'll ask it elsewhere as this discussion has been rather focused. I'm curious if anyone uses dry-ice in any capacity - seems a good device for cooling and Co2 production. Thoughts? Opinions? Snide remarks?

[trichcycler]

meh.

 

worthless. cost prohibitive for c02 for any reason. cannot extract with it. while it will cool and knock around buds for a keif run, it has a PITA factor, plus cost.

I call (mj)useless on the dry ice, ice baby.

[trichcycler]

Nice thing about co2 is that it sinks.  2 holes in a tight fitting lid, one for co2 in and one would push all the air out.  Should work similar to water.  What about mite eggs?  How long can they go without o2?

interesting thing is cold water kills mites and eggs quickly. I cold water dip does not harm the plant, seen this myself. the one I saw was in full bloom even!

 

a combo dunk and freeze would be the ultimate I'd say, with good drying conditions. winter time would suck. Mite eggs breathe through their shell, they only live a bit longer for their stored 02. I see mites on plants at meijers often. It would be no thing for someone to grab a plant and experiment on a small scale with mite/egg deaths in a jar/water. I'd do it, but since I've never seen a mite in my garden, no way.

[AbominableDro-Man]

Knocking on wood here, but thus far the only indoor problem I've come across are the occasional Thrip (Quickly to be dealt with). I've luckily so far avoided indoor PM, and Mites. I'm pretty uppity with the organic thing so my chosen go to method for bugs has been more bugs! (Ladybugssss!)

 

On the downside, I did have a small, localized PM problem on an outdoor lady last summer. 

Edited January 26, 2015 by AbominableDro-Man

[trichcycler]

a few yrs ago I saw a little bit near the bottom of one plant outdoors, and I lollipopped it all the way up to the infected area. I believe the additional air movement, light ended that crazy chit. the plant finished vegging, I covered it with a garbage can to induce flower, and never seen an issue. I did decide not to grow outdoors though, until the legal climate improves. My 5 acre yard stank from 4 penned up plants 5 feet tall.