Defining Usable Medical Marijuana

[Russ]

How does the Law define usable Medical marijuana ? Dose it count all plants or just budding plants?

[Zombiefied]

How does the Law define usable Medical marijuana ? Dose it count all plants or just budding plants?

 

 

Plant count and "Usable Marijuana" are two different things. A patient growing for he/r self can grow up to 12 total plants, mature and immature and seedling and clone all count as 1 plant, but I am not sure about clones without roots. Here is the definition in the law

(j) "Usable marihuana" means the dried leaves and flowers of the marihuana plant, and any mixture or preparation thereof, but does not include the seeds, stalks, and roots of the plant.

and

4. Protections for the Medical Use of Marihuana.

 

Sec. 4. (a) A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the qualifying patient possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana, and, if the qualifying patient has not specified that a primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility. Any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots shall also be allowed under state law and shall not be included in this amount.

 

Hope this helps.

 

PS. I AM NOT A LAWYER OR LEGAL COUNCIL, WHAT I WROTE IS MY OPINION! BUT THE QUOTES ARE THE LAW!

[garyfisher]

I have spoken with several MMJ attorney's. "usable marijuana" = any dried buds or dried leaves.

[Hempcheff]

A recent ruling established that hanging and curing meds dont count as useable under the law, and as a result they need to be very careful now when they confiscate as they can no longer parade trash bags full of roots, dirt, stalks etc... from when they raid and claim it is useable marijuana.

[garyfisher]

Hempcheff, can you back this up with a link?

Are you talking about the Gennessee County case? If so, that ruling did not establish that hanging and curing plants do not count. Do not mislead people into breaking the law.

 

Several lawyers I have talked to highly disagree with your statement including Jesse Williams and Dan Grow. Any dried material is and will be counted against your 2.5 oz. One of these lawyers asserted that as soon as you cut the stalk that it can be used against you as usable product.

[Guest finallyfree09]

Hempcheff... Could u post a link to that ruling please? This is something that is of a great deal of concern to me.

 

Thanks!

[Guest finallyfree09]

In anothre State, cali I believe, a guy was caught with plants hanging and they tried to prosecute him for it. He was able to beat the charges because drying is part of the "manufacturing" process and the govt had to give him reasonable time to complete that process.

 

The "manufacture" of mmj is covered under the definition of medical use in our law. Drying AND curing are both necessary parts of the manufacturing process which we are allowed to do.

 

Just my opinion!

[GreatLakesMeds]

A recent ruling established that hanging and curing meds dont count as useable under the law, and as a result they need to be very careful now when they confiscate as they can no longer parade trash bags full of roots, dirt, stalks etc... from when they raid and claim it is useable marijuana.

 

This isn't the first time you have presented your legal opinion, as a layperson, as fact.

 

This is very dangerous for you to do.

 

Maybe you should confine your advice to cooking.

[bobandtorey]

Hempcheff, can you back this up with a link?

Are you talking about the Gennessee County case? If so, that ruling did not establish that hanging and curing plants do not count. Do not mislead people into breaking the law.

 

Several lawyers I have talked to highly disagree with your statement including Jesse Williams and Dan Grow. Any dried material is and will be counted against your 2.5 oz. One of these lawyers asserted that as soon as you cut the stalk that it can be used against you as usable product.

 

 

you are right Leo will count it all the muffins you make will count also and your butter

theirs a case right now were they weighted his cake

[GreatLakesMeds]

In anothre State, cali I believe, a guy was caught with plants hanging and they tried to prosecute him for it. He was able to beat the charges because drying is part of the "manufacturing" process and the govt had to give him reasonable time to complete that process.

 

The "manufacture" of mmj is covered under the definition of medical use in our law. Drying AND curing are both necessary parts of the manufacturing process which we are allowed to do.

 

Just my opinion!

 

The law says "an amount of marihuana that does not exceed 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana, and, if the qualifying patient has not specified that a primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility."

 

If patient A has 12 plants growing and 2.5 oz dry and

 

Patient B has 12 plants growing, two drying, and 2.5 oz dry

 

Does Patient B have more marijuana that Patient A? Yes Does Patient B have and amount of marijuana that exceeds 12 plants and 2.5 oz? Yes.

[Hempcheff]

 

 

Hempcheff, can you back this up with a link?
Are you talking about the Gennessee County case? If so, that ruling did not establish that hanging and curing plants do not count. Do not mislead people into breaking the law.

Several lawyers I have talked to highly disagree with your statement including Jesse Williams and Dan Grow. Any dried material is and will be counted against your 2.5 oz. One of these lawyers asserted that as soon as you cut the stalk that it can be used against you as usable product.

 

Hempcheff... Could u post a link to that ruling please? This is something that is of a great deal of concern to me.

Thanks!

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/27589-judge-throws-out-pot-case/page__p__255120__fromsearch__1#entry255120

January 18, 2011 -

By Carol Hopkins - For The Macomb Daily

A case involving medical marijuana found in a barn has been dismissed in Genesee County.

The case of Chason William-Gregory Pointer of Clarkston began when an Oakland County Narcotics Enforcement Team arrested Pointer in October 2009. Officers found marijuana and growing equipment in Pointer's barn in Genesee County.

Pointer was charged with unlawful manufacture of marijuana contrary to the Medical Marijuana Act.

The Oakland County Sheriff's Office was closed Monday for the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday.

Genesee Circuit Judge Geoffrey Neithercut dismissed the case against Pointer, who had a state medical marijuana card on Jan. 14, saying the prosecutors failed to show evidence that Pointer had more than 2.5 ounces of usable marijuana.

The court's opinion indicated that instead of presenting the marijuana in its "processed and usable form, the Prosecutor brought in a very large quantity of unprocessed marijuana well in excess of 2.5 ounces, and said a jury could infer a percentage of usable material."

Neithercut said, "There was no need of the jury to infer the weight of usable (marijuana). The prosecutor and law enforcement had the unprocessed marijuana and could have processed it down to a useable form ... and presented that as evidence."

He continued, "(The) Prosecutor made a tactical decision to sway the jury with large bags of unprocessed and legally meaningless marijuana refuse instead."

[bobandtorey]

http://michiganmedic...__1#entry255120

 

January 18, 2011 - http://macombdaily.c...iewmode=default

 

By Carol Hopkins - For The Macomb Daily

 

A case involving medical marijuana found in a barn has been dismissed in Genesee County.

 

The case of Chason William-Gregory Pointer of Clarkston began when an Oakland County Narcotics Enforcement Team arrested Pointer in October 2009. Officers found marijuana and growing equipment in Pointer's barn in Genesee County.

 

Pointer was charged with unlawful manufacture of marijuana contrary to the Medical Marijuana Act.

 

The Oakland County Sheriff's Office was closed Monday for the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday.

 

Genesee Circuit Judge Geoffrey Neithercut dismissed the case against Pointer, who had a state medical marijuana card on Jan. 14, saying the prosecutors failed to show evidence that Pointer had more than 2.5 ounces of usable marijuana.

 

The court's opinion indicated that instead of presenting the marijuana in its "processed and usable form, the Prosecutor brought in a very large quantity of unprocessed marijuana well in excess of 2.5 ounces, and said a jury could infer a percentage of usable material."

 

Neithercut said, "There was no need of the jury to infer the weight of usable (marijuana). The prosecutor and law enforcement had the unprocessed marijuana and could have processed it down to a useable form ... and presented that as evidence."

 

He continued, "(The) Prosecutor made a tactical decision to sway the jury with large bags of unprocessed and legally meaningless marijuana refuse instead."

 

 

that is very good news i no but we need a ruling by more then one judge IMO it is were you live not who you know LOL

[Hempcheff]

This isn't the first time you have presented your legal opinion, as a layperson, as fact.

 

This is very dangerous for you to do.

 

Maybe you should confine your advice to cooking.

 

My legal opinion is just that, opinion, i do not dispese legal advice, only common sense, layperson as you put it yes, i sure as hell am! and proud of it. which is exactly as i read the law, simply and at face value. there is nothing tricky about the law except to those that oppose it.

 

but i will leave you with this, as this discussion between you and i ends:

 

 

 

Risk, Fear, Intimidation, Pain.

 

These are the things that they know keep us down, WE as a rule are paranoid, and not from the medication, but because we have been ostracized and repressed for years as a community as a whole. These are the things that they know will keep us hidden in our attempts to grow and harvest the best medicine we can in closets and basements and refrigerators and coolers,

 

RISK: "Keep it hidden, keep it safe" we cry, why? Why hide behind the brutish tactics of a dying regime any more? We have the power to stand up now against the thugs and punks and rippers that are slowly being weeded out of this industry? (lol, pun intended ) Only in numbers can we hope for the rulings and actions that are descending upon us to be kept valid. We need to be diligent in our efforts to protect what we have. We have recourse now if anything happens to us now, no more taking the lumps and starting over. People are being prosecuted for robbing patients!

 

 

FEAR: We have brave, seemingly fearless citizens standing up for the law that we all benefit from in Royal Oak. Oh the anxiety the have now! but they know that they have the law and the people of the State of Michigan behind them. There are countless others in the court system as we all know that are paving the way for safer access and control of our own medicine. by our hands, for our hands. These are the rallying cries of our liberation here folks. You have to hear them, we need to heed them! It is time that we show them that we are not afraid to be patients and caregivers, that we are entitled to grow our medicine in places where we feel are a safe, secure location, contractually secure by law if applicable, to produce the highest quality medication that we can for ourselves.

 

INTIMIDATION: Dont go to a compassion club, they are illegal!, dont go to a dispensary, they are illegal!, dont conduct patient to patient transfers they are illegal! dont let your neighbor see you transfer, the law says you have to be secret about it. WHY i ask? PROPAGANDA folks, i prefer PROPERGANJA mehself, but thats for another time.

Furthermore, why do we buy into it. Why do we continue to shirk from the eyes of the public?

 

Because we have been living under the shadow of prison and forfeiture for 70+ years. This has changed! We are free people! We need to rise with our heads up as patients and caregivers and stand up to the last of the non-conformists that hold office and other positions of power. They do not have that over our heads any more! yet we are intimidated by the current actions of these entities and by actions in the past on their part.

 

PAIN: You will suffer, your family will suffer, your friends will suffer, lives will be destroyed if you grow and use marihuana.

 

UNTIL WE STAND UP and show them that we are not afraid anymore, and that we know that we have rights and freedoms that prevent us from being inspected and be persecuted and are not afraid to invoke those rights!

 

Im sure there are some flames coming, Get on board, your rights are at stake as well

[GreatLakesMeds]

Yes do be proud of your layperson position but also understand that the case you cited has no relevance to the matter being discussed. The prosecution brought in unprocessed marijuana as evidence that the victim was over his limit. The judge found that the prosecution could have processed the marijuana to make it suitable evidence but since they did not do so, the wet plants could not be used. If you read carefully you will see that had the prosecution dried the MJ, the court likely would have accepted it as evidence and very possibly would have convicted. If anything, this case hints that the judge would likely rule that "usable marijuana" includes the weight, once dry, of any wet marijuana you have on hand. Your position seems to be that a person can have any amount of wet marijuana and be OK.

 

First off, this isn't an appeals court decision so even if the court found as you say they did, your opinion still holds no water because any other court in the state could rule exactly the opposite with the same exact circumstances. Hell even the same judge could rule exactly the opposite on an identical case.

 

So maybe before you state your opinion as fact and in a manner that does not even indicate that it is your opinion, and in a manner that does not open the door to the possibility that you might be wrong, you should consider that someone might follow your bad advice and get in trouble.

 

If you were at a compassion club and someone showed you a brown spot on their skin and asked you if it was cancer, would you say "I dunno but it doesn't look like cancer to me, but hell I'm a hempchef" Or "Nope. Not cancer."

 

You continue to present your uninformed opinion with no qualifier or disclaimer. This does no good for our movement.

 

Stick to giving advice you are qualified to give, lest you lead someone astray.

 

My legal opinion is just that, opinion, i do not dispese legal advice, only common sense, layperson as you put it yes, i sure as hell am! and proud of it. which is exactly as i read the law, simply and at face value. there is nothing tricky about the law except to those that oppose it.

 

but i will leave you with this, as this discussion between you and i ends:

 

 

 

Risk, Fear, Intimidation, Pain.

 

These are the things that they know keep us down, WE as a rule are paranoid, and not from the medication, but because we have been ostracized and repressed for years as a community as a whole. These are the things that they know will keep us hidden in our attempts to grow and harvest the best medicine we can in closets and basements and refrigerators and coolers,

 

RISK: "Keep it hidden, keep it safe" we cry, why? Why hide behind the brutish tactics of a dying regime any more? We have the power to stand up now against the thugs and punks and rippers that are slowly being weeded out of this industry? (lol, pun intended ) Only in numbers can we hope for the rulings and actions that are descending upon us to be kept valid. We need to be diligent in our efforts to protect what we have. We have recourse now if anything happens to us now, no more taking the lumps and starting over. People are being prosecuted for robbing patients!

 

 

FEAR: We have brave, seemingly fearless citizens standing up for the law that we all benefit from in Royal Oak. Oh the anxiety the have now! but they know that they have the law and the people of the State of Michigan behind them. There are countless others in the court system as we all know that are paving the way for safer access and control of our own medicine. by our hands, for our hands. These are the rallying cries of our liberation here folks. You have to hear them, we need to heed them! It is time that we show them that we are not afraid to be patients and caregivers, that we are entitled to grow our medicine in places where we feel are a safe, secure location, contractually secure by law if applicable, to produce the highest quality medication that we can for ourselves.

 

INTIMIDATION: Dont go to a compassion club, they are illegal!, dont go to a dispensary, they are illegal!, dont conduct patient to patient transfers they are illegal! dont let your neighbor see you transfer, the law says you have to be secret about it. WHY i ask? PROPAGANDA folks, i prefer PROPERGANJA mehself, but thats for another time.

Furthermore, why do we buy into it. Why do we continue to shirk from the eyes of the public?

 

Because we have been living under the shadow of prison and forfeiture for 70+ years. This has changed! We are free people! We need to rise with our heads up as patients and caregivers and stand up to the last of the non-conformists that hold office and other positions of power. They do not have that over our heads any more! yet we are intimidated by the current actions of these entities and by actions in the past on their part.

 

PAIN: You will suffer, your family will suffer, your friends will suffer, lives will be destroyed if you grow and use marihuana.

 

UNTIL WE STAND UP and show them that we are not afraid anymore, and that we know that we have rights and freedoms that prevent us from being inspected and be persecuted and are not afraid to invoke those rights!

 

Im sure there are some flames coming, Get on board, your rights are at stake as well

[GreatLakesMeds]

Yes do be proud of your layperson position but also understand that the case you cited has no relevance to the matter being discussed. The prosecution brought in unprocessed marijuana as evidence that the victim was over his limit. The judge found that the prosecution could have processed the marijuana to make it suitable evidence but since they did not do so, the wet plants could not be used. If you read carefully you will see that had the prosecution dried the MJ, the court likely would have accepted it as evidence and very possibly would have convicted. If anything, this case hints that the judge would likely rule that "usable marijuana" includes the weight, once dry, of any wet marijuana you have on hand. Your position seems to be that a person can have any amount of wet marijuana and be OK.

 

First off, this isn't an appeals court decision so even if the court found as you say they did, your opinion still holds no water because any other court in the state could rule exactly the opposite with the same exact circumstances. Hell even the same judge could rule exactly the opposite on an identical case.

 

So maybe before you state your opinion as fact and in a manner that does not even indicate that it is your opinion, and in a manner that does not open the door to the possibility that you might be wrong, you should consider that someone might follow your bad advice and get in trouble.

 

If you were at a compassion club and someone showed you a brown spot on their skin and asked you if it was cancer, would you say "I dunno but it doesn't look like cancer to me, but hell I'm a hempchef" Or "Nope. Not cancer." The latter is akin to the bad legal advice you have given on several occasions. The former is how you should be, but have not, been behaving.

 

You continue to present your uninformed opinion with no qualifier or disclaimer. This does no good for our movement.

 

Stick to giving advice you are qualified to give, lest you lead someone astray.

[Hempcheff]

stop spreading your fear please.

 

Edited February 10, 2011 by Hempcheff

[Hempcheff]

read the opinion and fo;;owing: this case wont go to appeals court. and there was no prosecutable usable marijuana, nor was the plant count over as a result of the non-usable marijuana.

 

again, stop with the fear please. there is enough of that outside this site for the people that have questions.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Hempcheff

[GreatLakesMeds]

read the opinion and fo;;owing: this case wont go to appeals court. and there was no prosecutable usable marijuana, nor was the plant count over as a result of the non-usable marijuana.

 

again, stop with the fear please. there is enough of that outside this site for the people that have questions.

 

You are flat out wrong.

 

I am not spreading fear. I am spreading the truth.

 

You are spreading a dangerous and incorrect interpreation of a ruling and applying it incorrectly too.

 

Read it again. Had the prosecution trimmed and dried the plants, the judge would have accepted the evidence. This has nothing to do with a judge thinking that drying plants count or don't count. The evidence was thrown out as bad.

 

Your statement that the case won't go to the COA is further evidence that you don't know what you are talking about. This ruling HAS NO bearing on future cases in any court, including the same court. Precendent is set in appeals court and the supreme court.

 

The same guy could get raided again by the same cops and the same sort of case brought in front of the same judge...and meanwhile if the prosecution prepares the evidence as the judge has suggested, then it would be admitted, and used against the victim.

 

Let's say that the marijuana was taken to the state police crime lab for analysis and conformation of what it is, and it accidentally got mixed up with some other marijuana so that the original amounts could not be determined. The evidence would be tossed out as bad. Would you then still say that suddenly drying plants don't count?

 

The ruling was not "drying plants don't count." How do you not get that?

 

GO back to cooking please, and quit giving bad and dangerous advice.

Edited February 11, 2011 by GreatLakesMeds

[Hempcheff]

ok, you win

[Classified]

Marijuana is not usable until cured, simple as that.

 

You guys are both interpreting the law to how you view it.

 

Fact is that the law needs to be less vague and define what it considers usable, because as of right now the law says "usable" and has no definitions to what usable is. That leaves it all up to interpretation and right now that is up the the court systems discretion.

 

Growers know when marijuana is usable, most LEO do not, and they will attempt to charge you for it. Until things are cleared up you have to do what you can to prove that what you had is not usable. Many people here use jars labeled with put in date, take out date, and when its usable, what its doing in there, etc.

 

No one is agreeing on this subject right now, lawyers say different things, and so will judges. We are in a waiting game right now.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Classified

[Highlander]

Marijuana doesn't need to be cured to vaporized. In fact, if you vaporize then you know you want more water content than is available in cured meds.

 

I do agree that useable needs to be better defined though.

 

You can cook with it too.

[bobandtorey]

Marijuana is not usable until cured, simple as that.

Am sorry but the word cured is not inn the Law

[Classified]

Marijuana is not usable until cured, simple as that.

Am sorry but the word cured is not inn the Law

 

The world usable however is, and until that is properly defined, its anyones guess to what usable is. Until the courts rule on cases based on this we are in a guessing game.

 

It's not done being manufactured until we say it is. In fact, it shouldn't be even considered usable until its out of the grow room in my opinion. Only THEN is it done being manufactured and ready for use.

 

Fact is LEO doesn't know what usable is and what isn't so its in our best interest to label accordingly or get rid of the overages.

 

I'm sorry for all the legal trouble you have been having, you have my full support, most cases don't take the direction yours has and im sorry you got the short end of the stick, we are all here for you..

 

However, everyone is acting like an authority of the law on this subject steering people they have no right to be steering.

 

Everyone is trying to convince people to their view point on something that is so grey and neutral right now it's just pointless.

 

There is only one truth to this right now, and that is...

 

WE DONT KNOW YET.

 

and until we do..

Be safe, Be smart.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Classified

[JayBuds]

it definitely can be usable practically right off the plant even with traditional smoking methods and some people actually do smoke uncured buds and dont know any better, however, its fowl and disgusting in my opinion and its obvious potency is diminished greatly but to some people weed is weed and ya they don't know any better, but the good thing is you can actually tell just by looking at the product if it has been cured, no taste test is needed although a taste test is the best method, people (specifically LEO) need to be educated on what the difference is, a simple picture example could be useful.

 

for everyone saying its not usable until cured thats just simply not true and you know it, sure its not usable to us as connoisseurs and growers its downright disgusting and we would never use that or give it to our patients, the thought is repulsive! but do you think mexican schwag is cured or some of the nasty outdoor that gets passed around here in the summer! Hell NO! Its quick dryed crudely and people still smoke it and they still enjoy it and do not complain because they don't know any better! - Some people actually enjoy to cough their lungs out and think its better! LOL GO FIGURE! Im sure you have met these types!

Edited February 25, 2011 by JayBuds

[+EdwardGlen]

The world usable however is, and until that is properly defined, its anyones guess to what usable is. Until the courts rule on cases based on this we are in a guessing game.

 

It's not done being manufactured until we say it is. In fact, it shouldn't be even considered usable until its out of the grow room in my opinion. Only THEN is it done being manufactured and ready for use.

 

Fact is LEO doesn't know what usable is and what isn't so its in our best interest to label accordingly or get rid of the overages.

 

I'm sorry for all the legal trouble you have been having, you have my full support, most cases don't take the direction yours has and im sorry you got the short end of the stick, we are all here for you..

 

However, everyone is acting like an authority of the law on this subject steering people they have no right to be steering.

 

Everyone is trying to convince people to their view point on something that is so grey and neutral right now it's just pointless.

 

There is only one truth to this right now, and that is...

 

WE DONT KNOW YET.

 

and until we do..

Be safe, Be smart.

 

We don't manufacture cannabis, we cultivate it! Usable In THE LAW its 'The dried leaves and flowers of the plant"

 

We know the difference! Its the courts and LEO are still indoctrinated and living the lies of eighty years of cannabis prohibition.

 

And proper curing is extremely important to medical cannabis.

 

Ed