Growing Outside And Busted

[imiubu]

There is nothing that is poorly written about the law.

 

Your situation is yet another case of a judicial system that does not like the fact that there is a law they need to abide by and are trying their best to not have to enforce it - on themselves.

That is the issue, they do not want a law that they need to enforce upon themselves and not those they seek to control and finding support from persons they are subjecting this punishment upon.

[imiubu]

we all need support in courts....we need to have a calender where all MMMP's can see places and court dates of upcoming cases and court appearances. This is the only way to send our lawmakes and prosecutors a message we won't stand for this...yet we all just "bury our heads in the sand" so to speak. Where are the 35,000 MMMP's that could rally on all our behalves? We all go forward alone, no support. 10 people protesting doesn't make a bit of difference....they laugh at us. If thousands converged at every case, it would not be a laughing matter anymore. These are public servants, paid for by us...the public. Yet we never show our disapproval of their tactics.....if at all, only when it is too late.

I would like to see 1 single place for those caught up in the courts

to be able to post courts dates so that more persons could show

in support. I often do not have time to scour the whole of the boards

to find this information.

 

It just makes sense to have 1 spot on the site for court dates only,

Thanks

[AmishRnot4ganja]

All this crap about "kids can climb over fences" and "the structure must be anchored in the ground" is just that - crap! With a $5 set of bolt cutters they can also go through chain link fence, farm animal fencing, and a pretty hefty padlock. The powers that be want a "secure facility" to be Fort Knox. No one can afford that kind of security. Well, some can. Large corporations could set up a very secure facility. (Uh oh). It is going to be very interesting to see what the acceptable definition of an "enclosed, locked facility" is.

[Jakk]

I was at the court inn Lapeer for Mr.nice guy he was told not to say anything about his card and did not take the stand

and it was not good at all

April 4 at 9 AM i hope some more people show up that will help a lot

 

where should we show up...where is it that you need support?

[bobandtorey]

where should we show up...where is it that you need support?

Well our next court date is Tuesday the 29th, 8:45a @ the 37th district court in Warren,

 

This one they have no way around taking the stand and trying to explain why they arrested and confiscated everything......

 

I hope its dismissed, but I doubt it seeing as they have been dragging their feet through this whole process for a year now. This has to be like the 10+ time we have been to court and 2 lawyers later

 

Michael K. at the last court appearance sat down and literally had to put the MMMA law down on the table and read it to them, maybe just maybe they will see I was following the law..

 

my compurter is not working any more this will be by last post for some time no money to fix it hope to see youi their

[Jakk]

Well our next court date is Tuesday the 29th, 8:45a @ the 37th district court in Warren,

 

This one they have no way around taking the stand and trying to explain why they arrested and confiscated everything......

 

I hope its dismissed, but I doubt it seeing as they have been dragging their feet through this whole process for a year now. This has to be like the 10+ time we have been to court and 2 lawyers later

 

Michael K. at the last court appearance sat down and literally had to put the MMMA law down on the table and read it to them, maybe just maybe they will see I was following the law..

 

my compurter is not working any more this will be by last post for some time no money to fix it hope to see youi their

 

Can we organize more people to show up? Me and my husband are not enough.....this is why we need a blog about court dates and a place people can say yes, anonymously to see how many will be there. This type of thing needs to be organized.

[Jakk]

I would like to see 1 single place for those caught up in the courts

to be able to post courts dates so that more persons could show

in support. I often do not have time to scour the whole of the boards

to find this information.

 

It just makes sense to have 1 spot on the site for court dates only,

Thanks

 

Just read that there are 70,000 MMMP's The lack of actual support at court appearances is pathetic...truly

[Royal Smoke]

Just read that there are 70,000 MMMP's The lack of actual support at court appearances is pathetic...truly

 

#1 You signed up to this site 2 days ago.

 

#2 I always find it funny when people join this site after they're already in trouble and need help. Nowhere to be found....until they need help.

 

 

Just sayin'....

[Jakk]

#1 You signed up to this site 2 days ago.

 

#2 I always find it funny when people join this site after they're already in trouble and need help. Nowhere to be found....until they need help.

 

 

Just sayin'....

 

I had tried to sign up (join) 4 times prior...originally when this first happened in August. I was so frustrated about it, that I finally emailed Korman from his legal website per email, not sure of the spelling of the attorney that is on this site, with problems I had joining, telling him my story needed to get out. I even made a $ contribution thinking that would help for me to join, months ago. Finally someone, a female from Kormans office called me last week and I again made up a new email address, etc and finally got on last week. I have had the same problems trying to join the Brighton compassion club...I can't get approved to get on that site either.

[The Digital Nomad]

Just read that there are 70,000 MMMP's The lack of actual support at court appearances is pathetic...truly

 

yea - sorry, thats 70,000+ PATIENTS - you know, sick people, disabled, fixed income kind of thing. I am sorry I am sick and broke and I can't make every meeting and court appearance.

 

Be fair, we are all equally at risk here and we all want safety. We are not rich, we don't have funds for transpo, and we are stuck working local issues. What the other person is saying, you might want to work with your local club, local activist for best results.

 

-DN

[The Digital Nomad]

All this crap about "kids can climb over fences" and "the structure must be anchored in the ground" is just that - crap! With a $5 set of bolt cutters they can also go through chain link fence, farm animal fencing, and a pretty hefty padlock. The powers that be want a "secure facility" to be Fort Knox. No one can afford that kind of security. Well, some can. Large corporations could set up a very secure facility. (Uh oh). It is going to be very interesting to see what the acceptable definition of an "enclosed, locked facility" is.

 

I have visited sites that were constructed as I said, LEO also dropped in - its hard to hide 16' plants. They approved. This was St. Clair County Sheriff Dept. The court case itself that dealt with the dog kennel - said itself - IF the cage had been secured to the ground - it would have passed. In this particular case, the drug agents said themselves, several times - its not enclosed on top. I am pretty sure if it was enclosed on top, their actions would have a different route.

 

- A grow I visited last summer 29 plants, 16' high.

 

DN

Edited March 29, 2011 by The Digital Nomad

[Jakk]

Did I miss something in the raid discussion - did you identify yourself as a medical cannabis patient/caregiver? Once LEO knows that fact they are supposed to ASSUME that you are complying with the act and leave. They have no authority to pursue it further, not even sure a warrant should be granted once they identify you as an MMM patient/CG.

 

How did they know about the backyard plot, and did you allow them access without a search warrant?

 

1T

they knocked on the door and through the glass, they my husband heading downstairs, so he had a feeling it was the police so he went to the door and he talked to them through the closed door, which is a full glass door with a mini blind. They said “Police” and he was up to the glass front door and 3 of them were outside on the front porch. Through the window of the closed door, they held up a badge. He said, with the door still closed and locked, that they told him they were here about the marijuana in the back yard.

He told them that the planter (a white duck planter) was just behind them, where they could find our certificates and paperwork to prove we were medical marijuana patients, all conversations were through the front door still shut and locked. The officers went over to look for the paperwork in the planter and couldn’t find it so they asked my husband to come out and find it for them. So he went outside, shutting the door behind him and got it out of the planter. One of the officers said “why do you have this wrapped in plastic and placed in a planter, I have never seen that before?” My husband stood out on the front cement porch with the door closed telling them “just in case we needed to show that to a law enforcement person”. We did that so we would not have to open a door to a policeman to hand them anything. I had done this for 2 years when I first got my card. We were prepared and not trying to hide anything. They were all trying to rip open the plastic that was wrapped in a plastic bag and heavily taped around the folded paperwork and they looked at the paperwork and said “all this doesn’t matter because you are growing marijuana outside without a top”.

[Jakk]

I am honored to see those who are helping and supporting this awful disgrace to these two Patients . I live hundreds of miles away but still stand and support you both . I believe your story could make major headwind in this all . Your letter I believe needs to be shown to all of Mi , lets get this story in the news . Theres a great Documentary being filmed as we speak , you should contact the crew and get your story in the Document . The more that amass and speak of this injustice and others is what we need . This is a safe way for all to be heard regardless of the legal outcome . Our Voice Counts ? If you feel more comfortable you can call Kristopher at 1-517-917-1965 , or you may respond to him here . His handle is Mayorshaggy and theres a few threads about the Document here as well .. The email is Kettlewhistleproductions.com

 

It sounds like you have had intentions of keeping low and letting this issue be resolved , only to find out its become a nightmare . There are many in similar situations as yours , its the scare tactic of the State Law system . Hopefully they will attempt to pleabargain your husband into less of offenses as this story makes wind . I hope we here within the MMMA have given you some comfort within this all . Youll find many brothers and sisters here with full support . On our behalf we hope your health does not worsen from the stress and that you both find the strength and courage to overcome this Unjust treatment .

ODAWADANNY

 

I am very afraid to go "that" public. I am a nurse...they can try and take my license. My life would be over if that happened. I help hundreds of people with an opiate drug addiction that come from all over the country. Many depend on me for support during their journey to detox off of these opiate drugs. I am even fearful of going against the courts at trial and saying I am an MMMP.I will probably be put in jail and the judge could take it out on my husband. I must get that message out in trial though, somehow. How can we defend ourselves if we can't speak the truth. It ought to be interesting at trail. I am trying to think of a way to get this info to a jury without going to jail. I just read Komorn's case in Livingston County where the mother of the defendant was locked up and Susan Geddes, the judge made the jury leave and ordered the baliff to lock up the mother. Komorn won the case though. I am sure you know about the case of DUID. I need to get my medical marijuana card blown up and put on a white t-shirt that I wear to trial. I want everyone to know the reason I did not come to this site sooner, was because I couldn't get approved to get on during the registration process. I made a donation and then I tried for months and I kept getting rejected. Finally I emailed Komorn's office for help to get my story out and was able to get on the site. I am still trying to get on the brighton area compassion club ...this is what I get when I try and join the brighton club: I have copied and pasted what happens:

 

You have been suspended from Brighton Area Compassion Club

Sorry, xxxxxx xxxx, you can not access Brighton Area Compassion Club as you have been suspended.

 

I cannot understand why. If anyone can help with this let me know, I could use their support and would like to tell them my story. We will be at the rally on May 25th to show our support and join the fight.

[Dilligaf]

If you show up to court with a walker and struggling to walk that might get the message through.

[Jakk]

If you show up to court with a walker and struggling to walk that might get the message through.

 

 

Great idea, as well as wearing a t-shirt top that has my medical marijuana card silk-screened on the front.

[Jakk]

have your lawyer ask you in front of the jury what medications you are using, answer with all medications including medical marijuana!

Grate Idea! Will tell my attorney

[pic book]

Bob(andTory),

 

When I had no computer I biked to the public library and logged on there. The one I'm on this very instant I found FREE on Craigslist on the public library computer. (My cat, tv, washer, dryer, refrigerator and furniture I found used and free there too). Still looking for a girlfriend--seems the ones on Craigslist charge--even the used ones.

 

RE your next court date you posted "Tuesday the 29th in Warren."

 

I can be there but in April 2011 the 29th is a Friday!! Now I tumble; you meant March but didn't say so. So when is your next court date? Please PM me with the date (Warren is close enuf for me to attend). Also in your PM please include the actual street address for the 37th court in Warren. I will Mapquest how to get there (from SW Detroit). While recovering from surgery I am supposed to be inactive and sitting in court counts.

 

Administrators: May I speak frankly???? Everything schedule on this board sucks. (CC meetings and court). Needs to be by date and also needs to be WHENEVER anyone signs on, that that days and the next days court dates and locations appear alphabetically and you have to click out of it to move on.

[pic book]

JAKK: the clothing will surely draw contempt and seems less wise than your lawyer asking what medications you are on and your answering at the end, "and cannabis--I mean, medical cannabis--I'm registered with the state." The jury will puzzle out your meaning and discuss it in deliberations and ask the judge to send in a copy of the law for them to read for themselves. The contempt will get you up to a year in county but a felony manufacturing conviction will get you way more in state prison--and with a drug felony, bye bye to that nursing license--whereas with contempt, it's not the case.

 

You don't lose your life by going public, it's lost when "felon" becomes your subititle. After release you refind your life by giving it up to help people in whatever fashion presents itself--see Colson, Chuck.

Edited April 6, 2011 by pic book

[Jakk]

Bob(andTory),

 

When I had no computer I biked to the public library and logged on there. The one I'm on this very instant I found FREE on Craigslist on the public library computer. (My cat, tv, washer, dryer, refrigerator and furniture I found used and free there too). Still looking for a girlfriend--seems the ones on Craigslist charge--even the used ones.

 

RE your next court date you posted "Tuesday the 29th in Warren."

 

I can be there but in April 2011 the 29th is a Friday!! Now I tumble; you meant March but didn't say so. So when is your next court date? Please PM me with the date (Warren is close enuf for me to attend). Also in your PM please include the actual street address for the 37th court in Warren. I will Mapquest how to get there (from SW Detroit). While recovering from surgery I am supposed to be inactive and sitting in court counts.

 

Administrators: May I speak frankly???? Everything schedule on this board sucks. (CC meetings and court). Needs to be by date and also needs to be WHENEVER anyone signs on, that that days and the next days court dates and locations appear alphabetically and you have to click out of it to move on.

 

 

I agree...we need a calender with court dates of trials so we can attend. A strong show of suppoert with medical marijuana shirts being worn by all in the court room would send the strongest message to the courts and the jury. We are in the beginning of this fight and we must win most cases to prove to them that it is hard to convict those they charge and harrass.

[thatoneartist]

There is nothing that is poorly written about the law.

Your situation is yet another case of a judicial system that does not like the fact that there is a law they need to abide by and are trying their best to not have to enforce it - on themselves.

That is the issue, they do not want a law that they need to enforce upon themselves and not those they seek to control and finding support from persons they are subjecting this punishment upon.

 

yes their is. The law says a locked, enclosed facility. It should say a locked closet or something more specific. Maybe say a locked enclosed house is not good enough.

[thatoneartist]

contept of court is fun.....ill be damned if some judge thinks im not gonna tell the truth just cuz he wants me to lie. contempt of court is fine....after all i find they are rather contemptuous.

 

 

easy to say, more ballsy to actually DO

[trichcycler]

August 21th, 2010

My husband, age 58, with rheumatoid arthritis and I am age 59, with a second diagnosis (10 years apart) of stage 3 terminal breast cancer. Both of us have been approved and have a medical marijuana card for health reasons. We reside in Brighton, MI 48116.

Around 11a on Tuesday, August 10th, while we were both home, were raided by the police. This is my account from the time I was awoken by my husband with an officer standing at my bedroom door.

I was sleeping after working all night. We both work from home, 24 hours a day and 7 days a week taking calls from people calling from an internet site for opiate addiction drug detoxification treatment and also taking calls from past patients that we cover after they have been detoxed.

My husband came to my room and said “Jeanne, get up, the police are here” and as I was trying to wake up and I said, feeling very confused, “what do you mean?” and he said “the police are here for the marijuana in the yard.” I said “what are you saying?” I was dazed, got up walked out of my room and right there was a large muscular young man dressed in jeans and T-shirt. I got on my robe, walked to the kitchen, felt dizzy like I might faint so I got some coffee. Then I went to the bathroom where I was followed everywhere, I saw 2 other young men dressed in regular clothes; blue jeans, etc. I asked them if they were from LAWNET (Livingston and Washtenaw County Narcotics Enforcement Team). They said yes. I was shocked, scared and shaken. They asked me if anyone else was in the house so I went upstairs to get my mother from her room, they followed, but she was not there, I immediately knew she must have went out with my aunt and I told them that. They said “we need to secure the premises, anyone else here?” I said ”no”.

I then went back down to the basement where I was followed by two officers and one officer said to me “I’m sorry about your cancer, your husband told me about it” and I said nothing. They proceeded to keep a watch on me positioning a person to watch and stay with me as I was in the basement of the home where we have to live ( we have been renting our own home out for 12 years) so I can take care of my 87 year old mother who is blind. Another officer came downstairs and stood against my refrigerator while I sat at the kitchen table and the other one was across the room by the television and another one was upstairs, I assume with my husband.

At this point I didn’t know how many were in the house, they all looked alike to me with shaven heads and huge muscles. I didn’t really look at them or make much eye contact. I asked one if he was on steroids as I know anyone that pumped up is usually on steroids. He said no. After about 15 minutes I asked them what was going to happen and they said we are waiting for a search warrant. I thought to myself, how did they get into the house without a search warrant? Believe me, we know better than that.

One made a comment, “does the marijuana help your pain” and I said “yes”. He said, there are many pharmaceuticals to help people with pain, why would anyone need to use marijuana for pain. I explained to him that I help people get off of opiates drugs and briefly told him how damaging they were and that that is what they should be looking into. I told him I hate prescription drugs of any kind and would rather smoke marijuana for pain. I mentioned we have no place to grow marijuana in the house and they certainly could see there was not even a 3x3 foot space for anything. They said I should have a caregiver and I said I can grow my own, I don’t know any caregivers and thought a secured yard with a 6 foot fence locked up would be considered an enclosed and locked facility. I said Jackson Prison’s yard is fenced and the prisoners go outside and that the outside yard is considered a part of the secured locked and enclosed facility.

Finally, after an hour or so, maybe two others came and they must have presented the search warrant upstairs, I guess to my husband who was still upstairs sitting at the kitchen table. Then they all started searching my basement home. They looked in drawers, closets, kitchen cupboards, everywhere. There were other officers upstairs where my husband was, searching my mother’s room, spare bedrooms, kitchen etc. From our area of the home, which is the basement, they took all and any marijuana they found, doubtful it was over the 5 ounce limit, including a few “roaches” in ashtrays and they took pictures of it all. They collected things and put in baggies and wrote on them with magic marker. They took a scale, seeds, all the marijuana and any “roaches” left in ashtrays, and whatever else they took; I‘m not sure.

They said they had a tip about the marijuana growing outside and that it was illegal to grow outside without a top. He said “someone could reach over the fence and get it”. I showed him our receipt for a $250 motion detector with 2 alarms which I said would have been placed as soon as it started to flower. I told them I work from my home so there is never a time when someone is not home. He was surprised and commented that I have cancer and still work?

After they completed their search of the house, gathered and bagged their evidence, which they also took some old medication bottles (one was Phenobarbital prescribed for my dog, Hannah), then they went out to the yard and pulled all 24 plants up by the roots and took them to some vehicle that was in the driveway.

Once they left, I was near hysterical, extremely upset. I am a nurse and do not want to lose my license. I asked my husband angrily how they got into the home and why he let them in without a search warrant? I knew that was not something he would ever allow. We are not stupid, we would never trust any of them and we would never talk with them nor allow them to come in without a search warrant. My husband is very opposed to that and knows better and would never be intimidated to allow that.

His story to me follows: they knocked on the door and through the glass, they saw him heading downstairs, so he had a feeling it was the police so he went to the door and he talked to them through the closed door, which is a full glass door with a mini blind. They said “Police” and he was up to the glass front door and 3 of them were outside on the front porch. Through the window of the closed door, they held up a badge. He said, with the door still closed and locked, that they told him they were here about the marijuana in the back yard.

He told them that the planter (a white duck planter) was just behind them, where they could find our certificates and paperwork to prove we were medical marijuana patients, all conversations were through the front door still shut and locked. The officers went over to look for the paperwork in the planter and couldn’t find it so they asked my husband to come out and find it for them. So he went outside, shutting the door behind him and got it out of the planter. One of the officers said “why do you have this wrapped in plastic and placed in a planter, I have never seen that before?” My husband stood out on the front cement porch with the door closed telling them “just in case we needed to show that to a law enforcement person”. We did that so we would not have to open a door to a policeman to hand them anything. I had done this for 2 years when I first got my card. We were prepared and not trying to hide anything. They were all trying to rip open the plastic that was wrapped in a plastic bag and heavily taped around the folded paperwork and they looked at the paperwork and said “all this doesn’t matter because you are growing marijuana outside without a top”.

My husband said “what kind of top are you talking about, do you have a picture of a top or an explanation of a top and how it should be constructed?” and an officer said “I don’t know, but because you don’t have a top on it, this is considered a felony.” My husband said, “so let me get this straight, you give me a license to grow marijuana and then you come and arrest me because I don’t have a top on it, that I didn’t even know I needed and it isn’t written in the law?” The officer said “this is not my idea, I’m just following what the prosecutor said to do and I would like to search your home with permission from you.” My husband said “NO, you have to have a search warrant” and he said “well, we’ll get a search warrant then.”

Then he said “will you show me the plants, I need to see if you have the correct amount?” My husband said “go around to the back yard and I’ll unlock the gate so you can count the plants”. So my husband opened the front door, came back in, shut and locked the door and went out the door to the screen porch connected to the house and through another door leading out to the backyard. He unlocked the gate and 3 of them walked into the back yard. They said they had seen the plants from a neighbor’s yard already. They counted the plants, there were the allowed amount of 24 and then they said again, “this is now considered a felony because you do not have a top on them and now we are going to call the prosecutor to get a search warrant for the house.” My husband said “go ahead and get your search warrant.” The officer said “can I enter the house with your permission?” and my husband said “NO, not without a search warrant”. Then the officer called on his cell and ordered the search warrant.

Then my husband said “okay, can I go now” and the officer said “no we have to watch you and secure the house so nobody destroys evidence, so go sit on the screened porch”. So he went to the screened porch and to sit down and they followed him through the door, uninvited and onto the screened porch and told my husband to sit down while they were going to secure the people in the house so they didn’t destroy evidence. They were all on the screen porch with the house door shut and the officer asked “how many people are in the house?” and he said “two”. They asked where they were and my husband told them I was downstairs sleeping and his mother in-law was in her bedroom just off the living room. Two of them opened the door to the house while my husband sat on the screen porch being detained. Without permission they started to walk in the house and my husband said, “you cannot enter the house without a search warrant”. That is when they said “we are allowed to, to secure the people from destroying evidence in this house.” He said “I never heard of that before”. The officer said “we have a right to secure the premises”. Then two of the officers just continued to walk into the house, through the door which enters from the screened porch, without my husband’s permission. They asked him, while they were already standing in the house, with my husband on the back porch with an officer guarding him, what my mother’s name was, so they could shout her name out before they entered her bedroom. He told them “Betty”.

My husband remained on the porch with one of the officers, all the time being told that he had to stay there while they secured the other two people in the house. Two of them headed towards my mother’s room, calling her name. When they saw no one was in that bedroom the officers came back out to the porch and asked my husband where the other person was and he said “in the basement, to the left is a bedroom and my wife is sleeping there.” So they said what is her name? My husband said Jeanne. So the two started heading down to the basement stairs and they told the officer that was with my husband, to have my husband come in the house and go downstairs with them. My husband came down to the basement with them and they told him to wake me up and that’s where this story began.

 

 

Update????

[beourbud]

here is a summary of that case; People v Larry King In a dissenting opinion, Judge Fitzgerald opined that the dog kennel did fit the definition of an "enclosed, locked facility" because the fence was six feet high and by definition, a top is not required to enclose something. Further, the kennel was locked, the plants were obscured from view, and the police officers were only able to gain access to the plants after the defendant retrieved a key from inside his home. Additionally, Judge Fitzgerald noted that defendant's home was not required to have a lock because the MMMA contemplates the use of "other security devices" to secure marihuana plants

6 years later, no charges for Open Air Outdoor Grows.

Don't believe Leo they can and will lie to you.

Outdoor Grows do not have tops/ roofs

Edited July 30, 2016 by beourbud

[+Malamute]

That case was with the old language before the law was amended.

[beourbud]

That case was with the old language before the law was amended.

So?

 

Outdoor still = open air.

Edited July 30, 2016 by beourbud