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Are Selfed Seeds "essentially" Clones?


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Years ago the hype started about the process of self-fertilizing unique marijuana cultivars. In the beginning it was greatly derided because the only practical method at hand was to stress a plant to the point of hermaphrodation, which of course, usually self-selected for that trait. Eventually, reliable chemical methods became available to clean-up those genetic loose ends, and selfed seeds began to become popular items at the seedbanks.

 

I had great hopes for the promises made by this new technology, really, who didn't salivate at the possibility of buying seeds that were essentially clones of the legend cuts! So, i tried. Initially it was do-it-yourself, so the outcome had me question myself. Then came the vendors, but those results had me questioning their methodology. In all cases there weren't any of the feared hermies, but there was also no clonal uniformity in genetic expression.

 

So, did i miss a thread somewhere that finally proved the myth, or are these claims debunked by more than my own experience?

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In theory, yes the seeds should produce females similar to the original selfed plant.

I believe that the lack of male chromosomes in there causes instability. I'm not knocking fem'd seeds or anyone who uses, them... I just wouldn't count on them.

 

This is not "new technology", as mostly every cannabis plant has a built in survival gene that will cause the plant to herm in order to carry on it's progeny. Although people can grow these genetics with good results, I see the whole Fem craze as an easy way for seed companies to just easily churn out beans for profit without actually doing any selective breeding.

 

My .02

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I guess I meant to say: Selfing a plant is causing it to pollinate itself, and the plants that come from it have no "father" plant. If you were to root a cutting of a plant (fem'd genetics excluded in my example), it carries the chromosomes from both the mother and father, making it an exact copy, or "clone".

Take it as you will... I personally wouldn't consider it a clone. A selfed seed is a selfed seed.

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As mememe said it has to do with the fact there is two sets of chromosomes for every gene expression. In some cases more than two genes. When you self a plant you keep all the recessive traits of the mother. This is because there is no dominate gene to overpower the recessive trait present in the mother’s genes. But in dominate traits it is a crap shoot. You could have one recessive gene and one dominate gene or two dominate genes. Thus the offspring could have a mixed bag of traits that were not expressed in the mother.

 

So no clone, unless all traits are recessive, which is beyond unlikely.

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I mean look at how I responded in the other thread, treehugger. Why not acknowledge it there instead of making a whole new thread about it? Trying to embarrass me or something? Annoying!

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/30188-hello-i-used-to-own-hillbilly-dreams-seed-company/page__view__findpost__p__286274

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I've expirmented with this SEVERAL times w/a few different strains. it all depends on the mother. I've had strains that are PERFECT copies and true female, I've had strains that bring out all kinds of traits. some good, some bad. then others come out total garbage and all hermie

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I don't know sheit about this stuff but I do know from personal experience growing a certain breeders fem strains. I've grown about 4 or 5 different elite strains from him and every clone I made from that plant and ones after, were all fairly uniform and of the same phenotype. All cloned very easy also.

 

Don't know if that means anything here but whatever...lol. :)

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When done right selfing can produce fairly exact copys of the mother plant. Doc seems to have it down to a science, but others have trouble. There is still the chance for genetic drifts depending on what strain your trying to self, and what method your using to self.

 

 

I recall reading the the exploits of Sunsimilator over on THC Farmer, he reworking the Sour Diesel line. He claimed when the Sour was selfed, he could sort out all kinds of different phenotypes ranging from Chem all the way to the Mass Super Skunk.

 

 

 

 

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Selfing a plant is NOT A CLONE. A clone is the exact same plant. In the method that most use here, it is just taking a part of the actual plant and rooting it, and growing. It is technically not a clone, but just a rooted cutting.

 

When you self a plant, you are mating it to itself. As said above, some genes will be overwritten, some will dominate. From what we should all know of the birds and the bees, when the DNA gets together, certain parts will come from the pollen side, and some from the female side.

 

In a true F1 phenotype you will get really close copies. If you are running anything below that results will vary as much as if you had a male and a female and crossed them.

 

Cedar

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I recall reading the the exploits of Sunsimilator over on THC Farmer, he reworking the Sour Diesel line. He claimed when the Sour was selfed, he could sort out all kinds of different phenotypes ranging from Chem all the way to the Mass Super Skunk.

 

Did not see that thread, but that mirrors my general experience. Selfing crosses produced the most divergent offspring, but even selfing Cindy and it's legendary uniformity, produced the same level of diversity as the original seed packs. (small but observable)

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I have been following a thread over at RIU that is discussing the process of using colloidal silver to turn a feminized plant male. Right now the OP has gotten as far as collecting the pollen from his "forced" male. Wa;tng to see if seeds result.

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I mean look at how I responded in the other thread, treehugger. Why not acknowledge it there instead of making a whole new thread about it? Trying to embarrass me or something? Annoying!

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/30188-hello-i-used-to-own-hillbilly-dreams-seed-company/page__view__findpost__p__286274

 

Sorry, did not see any alteration, i just saw your original post analogizing my insights with those of the infamous "Vic High". I thought a sanity check in order, so i consulted the general community rather than muddying that already dirty thread.

 

Furthermore, i've seen this particular canard of clone/seed equivalency repeated frequently inside various threads, and thought it well to establish a searchable topic, that would present valid consensus rather than the hype and claims that unduly influence the weak-minded in magazines and websites.

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Sorry, did not see any alteration, i just saw your original post analogizing my insights with those of the infamous "Vic High". I thought a sanity check in order, so i consulted the general community rather than muddying that already dirty thread.

 

Furthermore, i've seen this particular canard of clone/seed equivalency repeated frequently inside various threads, and thought it well to establish a searchable topic, that would present valid consensus rather than the hype and claims that unduly influence the weak-minded in magazines and websites.

 

If you saw that one then you saw the one I am talking about where I thanked you and added a quote that I think supports what you said. Is it wrong what Vic High said or were you making an unrelated point? I'm happy to get good information on the subject. I don't know if it's weak-mindedness with a lot of people so much as a lack of quality information combined with the tendency for some strains to reproduce true that causes confusion.

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