Gladwin Cops Say Patients Can't Drive. Period.

[Budz-4-U]

Patient gets into trouble. Non-MMJ issue.

 

Find an 1/8 at his place.

 

Shows them his Patient card, my name on back, as Caregiver.

 

Knock on my door. Go out and talk. They want to see my Patients 12 plants, then they will leave.

 

Well, with my plant count, had to show my card, as my own Patient.

 

They like my plants, sniff them, count them, all good, and leave.

 

Three hours later, I drive into an ambush. They now knew I am a Patient, presume I Medicate, draw my blood. If I refuse, automatic loss of license.

 

Night in jail, so far. Chopped up my Driver's License. Now I don't drive. This will cost me Thousands.

 

It had been 18 hours since Medicating. Cops say I am Under the Influence for 30 days +/- from the last date of Medicating. Zero Tolerance for THC in the bloodstream.

 

They said the day I got my Patient card, is basically when I gave up my right to drive. They agreed I wasn't under the influence, after 18 hours. Just doing their job. Nice.

 

Oh, if I go back to the pills instead, Gladwin has a Zero tolerance for pain meds in your system, even with a script. Take anything, quit driving. Period.

 

Not sure what I am going to do. Out on a PR Bond, til next week. No license, will have to take urine drops, $$$, maybe more jail time, N.A. meetings, community service......

[Kingdiamond]

Whoa Sabbath fan im so sorry these draconian scumbags are treating you like a criminal.

 

Let me know if i can do anything to help my friend.

[Budz-4-U]

Whoa Sabbath fan im so sorry these draconian scumbags are treating you like a criminal.

 

Let me know if i can do anything to help my friend.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Thanks. If you follow the progression of what happened, they had me. Once they know you are a Patient, you are screwed..... if you EVER drive.

 

Can't go the rest of my life without a Driver's License. Can't go the rest of my life without taking something for my back, at the very least, just before bedtime.

 

I feel helpless. But, I can see it from their side. A few of them said it would be easier on LEO, if the State would just legalize it, and be done with it. Some of them really felt for me.

 

But, I is still in trouble. :-(

[Kingpinn]

See this law has no balls . The powers that may are going to mess with us til we drop dead. Whats the use. Who's our champion. Who's calling the shots here . Seems the people voice isn't being heard in this fascist state. They seem to think they control us. And we are not to have a say in the matter. I think folks we are on the brink of revolution. Think its time to clear out the riff raff out of what they think they are some kind of royality or something. People that actualy wrote this stupid law need to step up to the plate and be heard. Its all a shamm folks this card all it does is provide the police with their right to mess with you and your love ones. And the time money and stress that goes along with it. Dont believe me walk in my shoes and see

[Budz-4-U]

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Thanks. If you follow the progression of what happened, they had me. Once they know you are a Patient, you are screwed..... if you EVER drive.

 

Can't go the rest of my life without a Driver's License. Can't go the rest of my life without taking something for my back, at the very least, just before bedtime.

 

I feel helpless. But, I can see it from their side. A few of them said it would be easier on LEO, if the State would just legalize it, and be done with it. Some of them really felt for me.

 

But, I is still in trouble. :-(

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Tell you Patients, all of you, to not get into any issues, where they must present their Patient card...........the back side of has your name on it. Pretty much narcs you out, even if you were under the radar.

[Kingpinn]

Card will protect you from arrest harassment stress profiling ridicule embarrassment forfiture B S . Great for meeting new friends in law enforcement YES. Cost you money you bet it does.Shorten our life sure it will. Pi$$ you off sure it will

[Kingpinn]

Want to become a police target get a michigan medical marijuana card. Good luck in the contest .When these people that wrote this MMJ law were they medicating at the time ??

[Budz-4-U]

Feels like the final nail in the coffin.

 

Over the past few years, my wife and I have fallen into bad health.

 

We both lost our jobs.

 

We just lost our house.

 

Wife and kid may have to move into public housing.

 

Me, I may be moving to the jail. Was supposed to start riding with my kid for Phase One of Driver's Ed. That hurts.

 

Will need to move my grow room.

 

Of course, if the court makes me quit.....to get my license back, I don't need my 12.

 

After I get a hold of my Patient, he will not be able to Medicate. He will not need his 12. LOL This is a bunch of crap. !!!!!!!

[Mike Sativa]

WoW... So Sorry man.

 

Went from one thread seconds ago reading about the cops being "cool" and giving meds back and let go, to this !

 

Thats crazy, and to think they came over cause your name on your patients card ? wow...

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles Budz, hopefully things go smoothly for you !

 

 

"My heads full of hell, and this worlds a jail"

[Kingdiamond]

It had been 18 hours since Medicating. Cops say I am Under the Influence for 30 days +/- from the last date of Medicating. Zero Tolerance for THC in the bloodstream.

 

 

I would like to see Michael Kormon address this issue with the Gladwin police i would like to know how they can cut your driver license up like that this is outrages and i think they overstepped the boundary of the law !

[nthlghts]

Gladwin needs to check their facts!

 

 

Michigan Supreme Court ruling makes it more difficult to prove drugged-driving cases involving marijuana

 

Published: Monday, July 12, 2010, 6:00 AM Danielle Salisbury | Jackson Citizen Patriot The Jackson Citizen Patriot

 

A recent Michigan Supreme Court ruling makes it more difficult to prove drugged-driving cases involving marijuana.

 

The high court overturned a 2006 ruling that 11-carboxy-THC — a long-lasting byproduct of metabolism created when the body breaks down the psychoactive ingredient of marijuana — is a schedule 1 controlled substance, a drug classification that includes heroin.

 

Now, prosecutors will have to prove drivers had the actual narcotic or its active ingredient in their systems at the time they are alleged to have been driving while drugged.

 

Previously, people could have been charged with a driving offense involving drugs long after they had ingested or inhaled marijuana because the metabolite remains in the body for a month after use.

 

Defense lawyer Jerry Engle said this means people who were convicted since 2006 of drugged-driving based on a finding of the metabolite should be talking to a lawyer. Their convictions could be set aside, he said.

 

In Jackson County, there might have been 100 such cases, he said.

 

Jerrold Schrotenboer, Jackson County’s chief appellate attorney, is not so sure. “I am not particularly concerned about a flood of overturned convictions or motions,” he said.

 

Operating with the presence of a controlled substance in the body is a misdemeanor and people only have six months to challenge a misdemeanor, he said.

 

The two lawyers argued the topic of 11-carboxy-THC before the Supreme Court in January 2006, after which the court made the ruling it recently overturned.

 

At issue were cases from Jackson and Grand Traverse counties. The local case involved the prosecution of Dennis Kurts for driving with marijuana in his system.

 

Blackman Township police in February 2004 cited Kurts, 44, of Michigan Center after he was stopped for driving erratically. He admitted smoking pot, but a blood test did not detect the narcotic THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol, which is in marijuana. It did show the presence of carboxy THC.

 

The most recent Supreme Court ruling stemmed from a 2005 Washtenaw County case. George Evan Feezel was traveling on Packard Road in Ypsilanti Township when his vehicle struck and killed pedestrian Kevin Bass.

 

Feezel was legally drunk and had 11-carboxy-THC in his blood. He was charged with several offenses, including drugged driving causing death.

 

Based on its ruling about the metabolite, the high court vacated the drugged-driving conviction and remanded case to the Washtenaw County Circuit Court.

 

This could be considered a victory for those who use marijuana for medical reasons, which Michigan voters legalized in 2008.

 

“(The Supreme Court) had to change the law, or everyone who takes medical marijuana could not drive a car,” Engle said.

 

Before, legal marijuana users would have to worry about being caught with the metabolite in their bodies well beyond the time they could feel the drug’s effects.

 

“The threat of a sick person not being able to drive because of a health decision was beyond the scope of reason,” Joe Cain, chief operating officer for the Michigan Medical Marijuana Association, wrote in an e-mail. He said the law was being used as a “weapon against the innocent.”

 

Schrotenboer pointed out, however, the existence of the metabolite still can be used as circumstantial evidence of drug use. Calling 11-carboxy-THC a controlled substance makes prosecution “really, really easy,” he said.

 

“Otherwise, it is a little bit harder.”

 

Under the drugged-driving statute, only the presence of a drug has to be proven, not a quantity, as is required with drunken driving.

 

“Hopefully prosecutors will not look for another exploit of our law, but will try to only prosecute those who are truly impaired,” Cain wrote.

[nthlghts]

Why would you even talk to them about your grow, they had no right to show up at your door, your first mistake. Second was you talked and gave them a blood test, I assume without the required warrant. You should have had no conversation at all, period! I would think you would have a defense assuming you did not talk to much, they obviously had no reason to stop you.

[phaquetoo]

Patient gets into trouble. Non-MMJ issue.

 

Find an 1/8 at his place.

 

Shows them his Patient card, my name on back, as Caregiver.

 

Knock on my door. Go out and talk. They want to see my Patients 12 plants, then they will leave.

 

Well, with my plant count, had to show my card, as my own Patient.

 

They like my plants, sniff them, count them, all good, and leave.

 

Three hours later, I drive into an ambush. They now knew I am a Patient, presume I Medicate, draw my blood. If I refuse, automatic loss of license.

 

Night in jail, so far. Chopped up my Driver's License. Now I don't drive. This will cost me Thousands.

 

It had been 18 hours since Medicating. Cops say I am Under the Influence for 30 days +/- from the last date of Medicating. Zero Tolerance for THC in the bloodstream.

 

They said the day I got my Patient card, is basically when I gave up my right to drive. They agreed I wasn't under the influence, after 18 hours. Just doing their job. Nice.

 

Oh, if I go back to the pills instead, Gladwin has a Zero tolerance for pain meds in your system, even with a script. Take anything, quit driving. Period.

 

Not sure what I am going to do. Out on a PR Bond, til next week. No license, will have to take urine drops, $$$, maybe more jail time, N.A. meetings, community service......

 

 

budz im very sorry this happened to you!

 

but it happened to you because of you! did they have a warrant to search your grow?

 

Is either of the cops one of your pt's and allowed in that g.r?

 

people on here say everyday dont let them into your house or g.r! The whole thing blows,,now you have to learn a very expensive lesson,,,but it was a self made situation,between you and your pt! your pt did not have to tell them he got it from you a pt can get it from anywhere,,,,true your name is on the back of card?!? or you have paper work,,,,which is it? not that it should matter but we all know it does matter paper work or plastic,,,just like at the grocery store i prefer plastic!

 

I had police trying to get me to let them into my safe in a hotel, I got caught with whip in my mouth,,in fact i coughed out a big hit when the cops walked thru my hotel room door! i was asked for my card,,,and than told i had to open the safe! I asked if they have a warrant! they said they dont need one,,,,I said sorry sir ( i wanted to say sorry sonny) but un less you have a warrant im not opening it....they called down stairs to see if the room was registered to me,,,,,and left with my ole lady she is the one that brought them to my room,,,I called and got a ride home from mt. pleasent to my home in iosco,,,,I knew they would be waiting for me to drive away from there so they could do the same thing they did to you!

 

Peace and i hope you learned something

Happy Easter

FTW

Jim

[nthlghts]

budz im very sorry this happened to you!

 

but it happened to you because of you! did they have a warrant to search your grow?

 

Is either of the cops one of your pt's and allowed in that g.r?

 

people on here say everyday dont let them into your house or g.r! The whole thing blows,,now you have to learn a very expensive lesson,,,but it was a self made situation,between you and your pt! your pt did not have to tell them he got it from you a pt can get it from anywhere,,,,true your name is on the back of card?!? or you have paper work,,,,which is it? not that it should matter but we all know it does matter paper work or plastic,,,just like at the grocery store i prefer plastic!

 

I had police trying to get me to let them into my safe in a hotel, I got caught with whip in my mouth,,in fact i coughed out a big hit when the cops walked thru my hotel room door! i was asked for my card,,,and than told i had to open the safe! I asked if they have a warrant! they said they dont need one,,,,I said sorry sir ( i wanted to say sorry sonny) but un less you have a warrant im not opening it....they called down stairs to see if the room was registered to me,,,,,and left with my ole lady she is the one that brought them to my room,,,I called and got a ride home from mt. pleasent to my home in iosco,,,,I knew they would be waiting for me to drive away from there so they could do the same thing they did to you!

 

Peace and i hope you learned something

Happy Easter

FTW

Jim

 

 

We need street law 101 taught in the schools.

[smokeythebear]

Gladwin needs to check their facts!

 

 

Michigan Supreme Court ruling makes it more difficult to prove drugged-driving cases involving marijuana

 

Published: Monday, July 12, 2010, 6:00 AM Danielle Salisbury | Jackson Citizen Patriot The Jackson Citizen Patriot

 

A recent Michigan Supreme Court ruling makes it more difficult to prove drugged-driving cases involving marijuana.

 

The high court overturned a 2006 ruling that 11-carboxy-THC — a long-lasting byproduct of metabolism created when the body breaks down the psychoactive ingredient of marijuana — is a schedule 1 controlled substance, a drug classification that includes heroin.

 

Now, prosecutors will have to prove drivers had the actual narcotic or its active ingredient in their systems at the time they are alleged to have been driving while drugged.

 

Previously, people could have been charged with a driving offense involving drugs long after they had ingested or inhaled marijuana because the metabolite remains in the body for a month after use.

 

Defense lawyer Jerry Engle said this means people who were convicted since 2006 of drugged-driving based on a finding of the metabolite should be talking to a lawyer. Their convictions could be set aside, he said.

 

In Jackson County, there might have been 100 such cases, he said.

 

Jerrold Schrotenboer, Jackson County’s chief appellate attorney, is not so sure. “I am not particularly concerned about a flood of overturned convictions or motions,” he said.

 

Operating with the presence of a controlled substance in the body is a misdemeanor and people only have six months to challenge a misdemeanor, he said.

 

The two lawyers argued the topic of 11-carboxy-THC before the Supreme Court in January 2006, after which the court made the ruling it recently overturned.

 

At issue were cases from Jackson and Grand Traverse counties. The local case involved the prosecution of Dennis Kurts for driving with marijuana in his system.

 

Blackman Township police in February 2004 cited Kurts, 44, of Michigan Center after he was stopped for driving erratically. He admitted smoking pot, but a blood test did not detect the narcotic THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol, which is in marijuana. It did show the presence of carboxy THC.

 

The most recent Supreme Court ruling stemmed from a 2005 Washtenaw County case. George Evan Feezel was traveling on Packard Road in Ypsilanti Township when his vehicle struck and killed pedestrian Kevin Bass.

 

Feezel was legally drunk and had 11-carboxy-THC in his blood. He was charged with several offenses, including drugged driving causing death.

 

Based on its ruling about the metabolite, the high court vacated the drugged-driving conviction and remanded case to the Washtenaw County Circuit Court.

 

This could be considered a victory for those who use marijuana for medical reasons, which Michigan voters legalized in 2008.

 

“(The Supreme Court) had to change the law, or everyone who takes medical marijuana could not drive a car,” Engle said.

 

Before, legal marijuana users would have to worry about being caught with the metabolite in their bodies well beyond the time they could feel the drug’s effects.

 

“The threat of a sick person not being able to drive because of a health decision was beyond the scope of reason,” Joe Cain, chief operating officer for the Michigan Medical Marijuana Association, wrote in an e-mail. He said the law was being used as a “weapon against the innocent.”

 

Schrotenboer pointed out, however, the existence of the metabolite still can be used as circumstantial evidence of drug use. Calling 11-carboxy-THC a controlled substance makes prosecution “really, really easy,” he said.

 

“Otherwise, it is a little bit harder.”

 

Under the drugged-driving statute, only the presence of a drug has to be proven, not a quantity, as is required with drunken driving.

 

“Hopefully prosecutors will not look for another exploit of our law, but will try to only prosecute those who are truly impaired,” Cain wrote.

 

 

 

Sounds like detla co in the UP, I know of 4 patients that have been hit with duid for having a card on them! the judge every time says that MI is zero tolerance so they are guilty, even with that ^^^^^^ stuff shown to him. the judge says in court the same thing the day ya got you card ya might as well have turned over you right to drive!!!!!!!!!!!

[nthlghts]

Then appeal and sue them for damages, I would go all the way to mi supreme court if I had to. If someone does not appeal they are guilty or ignorant of the law, and judges and LE count on this.

 

Sounds like detla co in the UP, I know of 4 patients that have been hit with duid for having a card on them! the judge every time says that MI is zero tolerance so they are guilty, even with that ^^^^^^ stuff shown to him. the judge says in court the same thing the day ya got you card ya might as well have turned over you right to drive!!!!!!!!!!!

[Iceman081]

budz im very sorry this happened to you!

 

but it happened to you because of you! did they have a warrant to search your grow?

 

Is either of the cops one of your pt's and allowed in that g.r?

 

people on here say everyday dont let them into your house or g.r! The whole thing blows,,now you have to learn a very expensive lesson,,,but it was a self made situation,between you and your pt! your pt did not have to tell them he got it from you a pt can get it from anywhere,,,,true your name is on the back of card?!? or you have paper work,,,,which is it? not that it should matter but we all know it does matter paper work or plastic,,,just like at the grocery store i prefer plastic!

 

 

You got it Jim, you can never let them into your home or grow area without a warrant. Anything they see in your home can be used to get a warrant, or used to arrest you at a later time. I'm extremely cautious and take it one step further, I got a PO Box and that is what is on the back of my patients cards think I'm gonna do it with mine too! I know everyone will say my address is on my drivers license but it surely doesn't mean you grow there, just another step to make it harder for them to get that warrant. The whole legal system has basicly put a target on are backs for having a card, just means you gotta be smarter or stealthy to fly under the target zone.

 

Happy Easter Jim and all my fellow MMJ friends, soon we will be in thier house on May 25th lets see how well they like it!!!!

Doug

[+Annnie]

Im so very sorry to hear this news budz.. I have you in my prayers.. And will be thinking on how we can right this injustice.. HUGGS..

[Otsego County Caregiver]

Sue the hell out of them.

 

AS another poster already made clear, the Michigan Supreme Court has ruled metabolites in your system don't necessarily mean you're presently under the influence.

 

You didn't know your rights, and now it's going to cost you.

 

It's EVERY patient's responsibility to KNOW THEIR RIGHTS. Bet you will now. You have my sympathy, but some of this is your own fault. You should never have become a caregiver without being informed of your rights. Not knowing them allowed the cops to railroad you. Now you will face an expensive legal fight that could have been avoided had you just told the cops to get a warrant if they wanted to search your home.

 

I hope you can teach them a lesson, make sure you get a pitbull for a lawyer. Cops like this need their peepee's slapped a few times before they learn the law.

 

Every caregiver should have a "No Trespassing" sign in plain sight on their property. This keeps the police from doing the "knock and talk" that trapped this caregiver.

 

It also keeps the solicitors, evangelists, and girl scouts away. I do miss the girl scout cookies, though...

[Dr. Bob]

I live in Clare and would be glad to chat with you and the Gladwin PD. Drop me a note and maybe we can get this taken care of and prevent another from going through it.

 

Dr. Bob

[2dogwalker]

Scary business for those in Michigan just trying to eeekkk out a meager existence. My best wishes our with you budz.

 

 

Thanks to all those that contributed valuable information regarding police entry into YOUR premises. If you ask me a warrant shouldn't even get them in my house unless another creature or human is under imminent danger..but maybe someday, after the revolution. Doors locked, Dogs Barking, No Trespassing, and Windows covered is the way to be for now.

 

Best wishes to all here in the Mitten, stay safe, unite and stop the ignorance. The beginning to the end will start somewhere, I would love to see that beginning start here in Michigan, and quit forcing the Good LEO's from enforcing ignorant laws.

 

Best Regards,

2DogWalker

 

*On my way to get a no Trespassing Banner* lol

[jessiejamez]

Good luck bro.

 

Everyone take note of this. Take the 4th. If they have prob cause they can get a warrant, if not be polite, but tell them that you're not giving up your rights without a judge taking them away.

 

Never show the LEO your grow or your medicine. I try to keep mine buried under a copy of the law.

[boroboro]

Budz, sorry to hear about all this,

 

So, they did a blood test?  Do you know anything about the results?  THC found, or just the metabolites (11-carboxy-thc / THC-COOH are metabolites, not the controlled drug itself).  If they found only metabolites then you're in better shape and they're on very thin ice with the recent MI Supreme Court decision separating metabolites from the drug itself.

 

You really need a good lawyer, and not one that will just send you toward a plea bargain deal.

 

I know Phaquetoo has done it, but if you haven't sent the police away from your door since they don't have a warrant, please be gentle with this advice.  It's clearly the right thing to do, but much harder than it sounds.  I've talked to the cops a few times when they were standing just a few feet away from my grow.  All my plans for what to say (and what NOT to say) to the cops  suddenly seemed inadequate.  I got lucky, but I can easily see how Budz would let them in.  After all, they already know, right?  And he's legal, right?

 

Legal ain't what it used to be.

 

Good luck Budz.  We're with you!  PM if you need anything.

 

 

[peanutbutter]

These officers broke criminal law.

 

Did they get a warrant for your blood draw? If so they signed confessions to breaking criminal law.

 

Did they testify in court against you? If so they confessed in court to breaking criminal law.

 

Make a list of every expense you had about this case.

Include costs for lost work time.

 

Add them all up and then add another five million to slap them across the face.

 

This one I will not let rest.

[peanutbutter]

This abuse is a clear threat to the entire state.

 

These Gladwin officials must not be allowed to break criminal law to put patients in jail.