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Promix Or Ffof?


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#1 Johnny Walker

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 05:04 PM

Hello everyone,

I am about to begin my first grow and have my mother/clone/veg room ready with the exception of the decision of which soil to use. I am using the full line of Fox Farms nutrients. Is it better to go with a soil without a lot of nutrients and just follow my nutrient schedule (weaker to start) or is Fox Farms Nutrients schedule designed to be used with Ocean Forest soil (or one of their other soils)?

Is there a better way to go for a first timer?

All comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Johnny

#2 Sinsemillaplease

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 05:39 PM

I use Pro-Mix HP and sometimes Pro-Mix BX with great results. It's all I've used so I can't make comparisons.

Beginners typically have problems with over-watering, over-feeding and pH. Pro-Mix HP and BX both drain extremely well, don't include nutrients, and tend to maintain a pH of 5-6 if watered between 5 and 6 over the course of the plant's life. I'd go with the HP for more drainage... you could just add perlite to BX but why bother when they usually cost the same amount.

Edited by Sinsemillaplease, 07 July 2011 - 05:46 PM.


#3 rockinlespaul

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 06:01 PM

I'd go with the pro mix as you'll be less likely to burn up your plants when using nutes. Ocean forest is hot enough as it is without adding nutes to the mix.

Personally I use a nearby nursery "house blend" of pro mix. I also add 25-30% more perlite and dolomite lime to buffer ph. Much easier imho. I use FF nutes.

#4 CherryCrush

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 07:51 PM

FFOF allows you cut your nutrient addition by around 90% because it is filled with organic nutes like blood meal, bone meal, etc etc; but i recommend adding a touch of perlite to FFOF and a touch of lime out of the bag.

If you plan to run your FF nutrient system, go with Pro-mix HP(high porosity) as it has more perlite than the pro-mix BX.

If you use Pro-Mix BX, it can use a touch of extra perlite. you would use your Fox Farm nutes same as HP.

All 3 ways will work perfectly fine. Just a matter of choice.

Edited by CherryCrush, 07 July 2011 - 07:53 PM.


#5 drtarzanmd

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 08:08 PM

Been using Pro Mix BX w/ Biofungicide Bale 3.8 cu ft

in 5 gallon Smart Pots for 2 year and not looked back .... :thumbsu:


#6 Johnny Walker

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 11:44 PM

Thank you so much for the replies!

I am going to be using air pots, so maybe the BX would be a better choice than the HP if I go with Pro-Mix.

Tarzan - Does all BX have Biofungicide?

Edited by Johnny Walker, 07 July 2011 - 11:45 PM.


#7 Jipo

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 07:29 AM

Thank you so much for the replies!

I am going to be using air pots, so maybe the BX would be a better choice than the HP if I go with Pro-Mix.

Tarzan - Does all BX have Biofungicide?


BX is the Biofungicide one, HP is High Porosity. I personally use BX with added perlite for drainage, basically making it BXHP. Promix gives you much more control over the nutrients, FFOF is hot, very nutrient rich and if you're not careful can cause problems. If you every do decide to use Fox Farms soils, mix FFOF with Light warrior for younger plants and with Happy frog for older plants, all fox farms soils need a good amount of perlite added or you'll not have good drainage as well as some lime to help with the low ph of there soils. With that being said, I would get the BX and add perlite. Best of both worlds, and you won't run into nutrient burn unless you do it yourself.

#8 Budz-4-U

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 06:22 PM

ProMix-HP soil and Fox Farm Nutes, in 3 gallon pots.

I have a buddy who uses the same soil, but he uses Earth Juice nutes, in 5 gallon pails.

His look better.

Anybody else use Earth Juice ??


#9 Jipo

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 08:29 AM

ProMix-HP soil and Fox Farm Nutes, in 3 gallon pots.

I have a buddy who uses the same soil, but he uses Earth Juice nutes, in 5 gallon pails.

His look better.

Anybody else use Earth Juice ??


Put yours in 5 gallon pots, more space = more roots. Most plants don't perform well in smaller pots, I wouldn't go under 5 personally, done a few 3 gallons in my day, they just don't have the mass a larger potted plant has and can achieve.

#10 tricloud

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:08 AM

Have used both fffof and pro mix.... Now days I mix 1 part ffof 1 part pro mix 1 part worm castings, 3 parts perlite and 1/2 part light warrior. I've tried the local soil mix that people talk about but it can't shine a light on this mix....

I use a cement mixer to mix the soil up nice and even.

After i mix this i water it with molasses water and let it set for a week or more if I can....

The sugars feed those microbes and you get to start with a nice lively soil...

Edited by tricloud, 09 July 2011 - 10:12 AM.


#11 tricloud

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:17 AM

Put yours in 5 gallon pots, more space = more roots. Most plants don't perform well in smaller pots, I wouldn't go under 5 personally, done a few 3 gallons in my day, they just don't have the mass a larger potted plant has and can achieve.


This really depends on how many plants he grows per light. Bigger pots grow bigger plants but also take up more space. Sometimes it's more productive to grow 12 plants per 1k than it is to grow 9. Depends on his circumstances....

I've grown in 3 gallon pots and did well when running 16 plants per 1k hps ... Works out pretty good with the right strain but can yield a little more than i need to have so most we do is 12 per 1k in 5 gallon pots.

We have other clones that we only grow 6 plants per 1k in 7 gallon pots. I really like to grow the same clone under the same light or at least clones that are very similar in structure and finish time.

Edited by tricloud, 09 July 2011 - 10:26 AM.


#12 rockinlespaul

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 12:25 PM

How do you squeeze that many ladies under a single light tri?

I think max I've ever had under a single 1000 was 7 and that was pushing it big time for space.

#13 Sinsemillaplease

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 02:27 PM

I'm not totally sure on my pot size but its between 1 and 1.5 gallons. Pulled 12 ozs of 12 plants under one 600 watt. It all depends on how long you veg for and what strains you're running. You certainly do not need 3 or 5 gallon pots with small SOG ladies.

#14 tricloud

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 07:29 AM

How do you squeeze that many ladies under a single light tri?

I think max I've ever had under a single 1000 was 7 and that was pushing it big time for space.


I just pack them in. It's the SOG method really just that i like the plants get a tad bigger than most soggers.

This method forms an even canopy across the top of the grow. Middle plants don't get as much light as the outer plants but this method is very effective and you will get the most bang for your buck this way. Been doing it this way for a long time....

To me the ideal final height is about 3 feet. Any taller than that and the canopy blocks out the light below the 3 feet area anyway.

Put the plants in at about 1-1.5 feet tall pot to pot or 3 rows of 4. The plants will fill in the area perfectly. Space crush and most of my strains and crosses perform amazingly in this set up.

I also use a light mover but it only spans an 18-24 inch area while running. I started using the light mover to help kill the hot spot, now i combine them with light diffusers....

Edited by tricloud, 10 July 2011 - 09:28 AM.


#15 tricloud

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 07:32 AM

I'm not totally sure on my pot size but its between 1 and 1.5 gallons. Pulled 12 ozs of 12 plants under one 600 watt. It all depends on how long you veg for and what strains you're running. You certainly do not need 3 or 5 gallon pots with small SOG ladies.


my plants get sick and root bound sometimes vegging in a 1 gallon pot. I think you must be using at least 2 gallon pots to flower in.......

I would also like to note that using a pot that's too small can cause ph issues and salt build up which in turn can cause taste issues or worse....

Edited by tricloud, 10 July 2011 - 07:36 AM.


#16 muckaluckaroo

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 08:31 AM

i really like this recipe from international cannagraphic:

LC's Soiless Mix #2:

6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up) / Fox Farm Ocean Forest or Light Warrior
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered (NOT PELLETED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime. The dolomite lime is for Ca. and Mg. not just to adjust the PH of the soil.

you can go for a long time without adding ferts if you do this:

1 tablespoon Blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons Bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
(OPTIONAL) 1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand or Azomite to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.

Mix all the dry nutrients into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it. Use Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the nutrients and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.

...or this:

Use all these items combined with one gallon of soil mix.

1/3C hi N Guano Mexican Bat Guano or Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/2C hi P Guano (Jamaican or Indonesian Bat Guano)
1TBS Kelp Meal

#17 Shredder

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 10:14 AM

Muck that is basically the mix I use, or at least what I start with. That IC organic soil forum is a big help too. I recycle my dirt and i make my own ewc and compost. The old dirt goes in the compost bin. The compost and the ewc provide humus for your mix. Why is this important? because humus takes care of ph issues, and is the major source of microbes for my mix. I also add small amounts of humic acid throughout the grow, when i say small I mean 1/4 tsp dry powder per 5 gallons of water. The humic acid will make nutrients more available to the plants to use. I also add neem, karanja, and crab meal for a modem of nutrient value and the bug fighting abilities they have. I also top dress my plants with guano at the rate of one 1/4 cup top dressed grow guano then 1/4 cup bloom guano in flower, both per a 7 gallon pot. I'm going away from perlite as i think other things work better and the perlite keeps breaking down over time. So i'm now trying lava rock.

I used to do the earth juice thing, and grew great meds but had the occasional lock out or deficiency. And while I don't hink earth juice is bad in any way, it's mostly guano in liquid form, so why not use the real thing. Now i mostly just amend my soil, and use the odd compost tea, but for the most part just feed water. With up to 20% humic content I don't seem to have any more lockouts or other mysterious maladies. Bugs don't like the neem and crab meal, so that helps.

In this type of organic growing, with a living soil, the microbes are fed well with the diverse meals and given time to grow and feed so when I have plants in the soil the microbes will take care of the plants needs without me trying to guess what they want or need. As it turns out the plants are better at it, than me. I'm using the same system in my organic veggie garden, and it is doing better than ever in my sandy northern MI soil.

Although I used store bought ewc before, the homemade stuff is much better IMHO, both in teas and in the soil mix. I have concluded those bags of ewc/compost sitting around in plastic bags were not all that microbiologicaly active.

This type growing takes some time and effort to get going, but the actual grow is very easy......shredder

#18 muckaluckaroo

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 11:59 AM

hey, i use folvic and humic with every watering at about 15 or 20 ml per 5 gal along with powered sea weed and some brier rabbit. i like to keep the solution in a frig. it seems like the girls really like a long cold drink. i also throw some magic dust into the soil mix that i get from fungiperfecti. makes for a real nice inoculation and very reasonably priced.

just started adding teas. how are you circulating during the brew?

hey tricloud, some day i hope to be a cement mixer class of caregiver.

Edited by muckaluckaroo, 10 July 2011 - 12:01 PM.


#19 Shredder

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 03:06 PM

just started adding teas. how are you circulating during the brew?

I use a Eco 3 commercial air pump in a ten gallon cone shaped tank from tank depot. The tank has a homemade 1/2 inch PVC diffuser for air distribution. I mounted the whole thing on a two wheeled hand cart.

#20 Budz-4-U

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:03 PM

Put yours in 5 gallon pots, more space = more roots. Most plants don't perform well in smaller pots, I wouldn't go under 5 personally, done a few 3 gallons in my day, they just don't have the mass a larger potted plant has and can achieve.


Started using milk crates with nylon (non-metal) screen. Milk crates are about 5 gallons...... works great !!




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