130 replies to this topic

[pergamum362]

not to mention there is the SLIGHT chance that the sea kelp they used might just have that much of that pgr in it...I read it somewhere..maybe pb can toss a link out...alot of our marine plant life have these chemicals in them in small amounts...man that does sound odd tho..haha

Edited by pergamum362, 24 December 2011 - 04:45 PM.

[mike44]

Phosphoload: 17,800ppm Daminozide, 20.6ppm Paclobutrazol
TopLoad: 3,467ppm Daminozide
Bushmaster: 271ppm Paclobutrazol
Gravity: 516ppm Paclobutrazol

Source: The link that I posted in post 10 of this thread.
I have seen State of California tests showing close to 600ppm for Gravity.

[GanjaWarrior]

Imo opinion....if u use "not for humans" on something intended for humans, with deliberate intent, you can not be classed any higher than the scum in the pharma industries that we all ran from. are you telling me a lil fatter bud is worth it to give potential poison to a cancer patient?

[avgjoe]

The only thing I use during the final weeks besides molasses is House and Gardens Shooting Powder.This stuff rocks!

[jayt]

I don't think flushing removes anything from a plant. Flushing with plain water forces the plant to use the nutrients it has already stored within itself. The plant should store around two weeks worth of nutrients in it's leaves and stems. During the flush these reserves are used up as the roots are no longer supplying adequate nutrients to the plant. Kind of like going on a diet. The plant does not reverse and send nutrients back out in to your water. If you run a recirculating system the PPM in your reservoir will increase, but this is the salt buildup in your grow medium dissolving.

The question would be how does gravity get stored in the plant? Is it broken down during metabolism? Unfortunately testing would need to be done to be sure.

[bigbudsnewbie]

I havn't used gravity or know much about it.. Seems to me if there is any questions at all about using it..THEN DON"T!!!

[CedarSpringsCG]

Thanks shredder, My wife is Sensitive to things, and a pt of mine. If I won't let her take it, I won't transfer to any other pt's either.

[peanutbutter]

Phosphoload: 17,800ppm Daminozide, 20.6ppm Paclobutrazol
TopLoad: 3,467ppm Daminozide
Bushmaster: 271ppm Paclobutrazol
Gravity: 516ppm Paclobutrazol

Source: The link that I posted in post 10 of this thread.
I have seen State of California tests showing close to 600ppm for Gravity.

Thanks for those.

Earlier in the thread, I already said I'm not going to be using it Gravity again.

My main concern on this thread is that Gravity and Bushmaster are being lumped in with those that have the Daminozide.

Blatantly unfair, propaganda tactics.

This thread was started up about Gravity. Then these other products were brought in. THEY have something in it that has been identified as a POTENTIAL carcinogen.

By implication, Gravity is carcinogenic .. it looks like a few folks, with some ax to grind, put out a smear campaign.

[pergamum362]

oh well...I thought this thread was dead a long time ago...thought I read pretty distinctly in that first link that it was 30 ppms in gravity...either way...haha..i dont think ive seen many more things spark such a debate.

[Shredder]

The ones with the axe to grind are the states shutting these products down in the name of sanity. They are protecting patients, as they should, as ours should. That is where the outrage should be directed. Our state should be stopping this as a health concern. In fact this would make a good sixty minutes story. Big money AG companies in cahoots with our govt. to poison us, while our own elected officials spend money to fight us. Us the people who voted all this in, we're being subjected to harassment and poisoning. Some who would profit are in our community.....shredder

[peanutbutter]

Is the liver damage nothing to be concerned about? I am not confusing any of these products, and I am concerned with the paclobutrazol in Gravity. It is you that keeps bringing up the cancer red herring as if that is the only disease to fear, I guess. As far as I am concerned the warning to patients and their caregivers should cover all of them.

Gravity and Bushmaster are being "lumped in" for using the same deceptive labeling practices with different dangerous chemicals that cause different health problems. I guess it just depends on what you think the real problem is: cancer, or deceptive marketing. Of course cancer can be bad, but I bet liver damage is no picnic, and regardless, they are lying by omitting the safety labeling.

We need to teach these manufacturers that this behavior is not acceptable, or others will follow their lead of profit over health. Do we really want to have to test every bottle on the shelf before we feel comfortable using it? Why can't these manufacturers just follow the rules laid out for food crops at least?

There have been several people that read this thread and assumed that Gravity was carcinogenic. They did that because of the presentation.

I agree with the bad labeling. How about labeling the bad lumping in as propaganda?

That liver damage requires gallons of Gravity to cause.

So far, Gravity hasn't been shown to do anything harmful, in normal usage. The stuff with the other compound HAS been shown to be POTENTIALLY carcinogenic.

It is deceptive to lump them together as has been presented here.

[peanutbutter]

I should also say that you have absolutely no idea how much Gravity it takes to hurt somebody. Don't even try to say that you do. There has simply not been enough testing.

Saying that you have to drink gallons to hurt you is based on insufficient evidence. You have no basis in science for even saying it. That is deceptive.

Here .. take your pick. As I did a couple of months ago.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&cp=16&gs_id=28&xhr=t&q=paclobutrazol+MSDS&tok=A9gZXcIu56YyF2-c2D2qxA&pq=paclobutrazol+cancer&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=paclobutrazol+MS&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=4b3c420078196b39&biw=1600&bih=771

[peanutbutter]

Here .. this one is from the EPA.

http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0182.htm

[peanutbutter]

And no .. the testing for humans hasn't been done.

They don't usually feed humans various amounts of a chemical to see how much it takes to kill the human.

[pergamum362]

And no .. the testing for humans hasn't been done.

They don't usually feed humans various amounts of a chemical to see how much it takes to kill the human.

Lol..I would hope not.

[Estimated Prophet]

My understanding is that Gravity does nothing for the quality of the flowers, it just makes them weigh more. Is this correct?

[Shredder]

And no .. the testing for humans hasn't been done.

They don't usually feed humans various amounts of a chemical to see how much it takes to kill the human.

Anyone using it is testing it. Some are testers without knowing it. None are tested according to any semblance of protocol, or by approved science. This is more fly by night goober science, with patient's health, seen as an acceptable risk, in the name of profits. Anyone knowingly giving this to cancer patients is criminally insane, and a detrimate to any medical claims for the movement as a whole. We're not doctors or scientist, but we should have common sense......shredder

[peanutbutter]

Do you not see how ridiculous your argument has become?

No I don't. I think it is a waste of my time.
But, there has been a claim that Gravity has a known cancer causing substance in it. Not by you or anyone here. Rather it is the information that you have been fed.

In addition, if Gravity has 500-600 ppm of paclobutrazol, and the RfD is 1.3e-2 mg/kg/day, are you really sure you can drink gallons before reaching the threshold?

OK .. numbers.

Say it's 600 ppm and it takes 1.3 mg/kg/day to do the damage.

I'll use 100 kg as a human body weight for simplicity. I know that's a little heavy. One reason I used 1.3 instead of 2 mg/kg/day.

And 600 ppm is the high end also.

1,000,000/600 = 1,667. That's the ratio. If you consume 1,667 grams of Gravity you receive 1 gram of paclobutrazol.

The toxic level = 2 mg * 100 = 200 mg per day. So you take the 1,667 and divide by 5 you get 333.4 grams of Gravity needed to be consumed every day to hit that amount.

That's eleven fluid ounces per day. OK .. not gallons. Just about 1.5 cups of pure Gravity per day.

I saw nothing about toxic build up, smoking or cancer in any of these reports. I take that back. Cancer was tested. There was none observed.
The claim being made here, is that Gravity causes cancer. I believe that is an error.
There are other reasons to object to Gravity. Use the truth instead of false claims. Here another product was tested and the results are being applied to Gravity by hype, not science.

You claimed I didn't have the science to back me up. I think that was, also, in error.

[peanutbutter]

Anyone using it is testing it. Some are testers without knowing it. None are tested according to any semblance of protocol, or by approved science. This is more fly by night goober science, with patient's health, seen as an acceptable risk, in the name of profits. Anyone knowingly giving this to cancer patients is criminally insane, and a detrimate to any medical claims for the movement as a whole. We're not doctors or scientist, but we should have common sense......shredder

Gee .. I guess we're already dead.

[coxie0527]

All,


I posted a thread on what people thought about Gravity and many people responded. Over the last few days the thread went missing, so I am bringing it back... So here you go folks... Gravity... Your thoughts?

I didn't think it was worth the cost.

Edited by coxie0527, 26 December 2011 - 08:02 AM.