16 replies to this topic

[legacy]

When legal businesses have disagreements, they sue each other in a court of law. When illegal businesses have disagreements, they take the law into their own hands. Gangs do drive-by shootings. Sometimes drive-by shootings hit the wrong person. Recently this happened in Detroit when a gang conflict resulted in a 9 month old being killed in a drive by.

On the news clip below, city councilwoman Saunteel Jenkins was talking about the need to "get these guns off the streets." Roberta Jasina asked, "Wouldn't criminals just find guns anyway?" Seemed like an intelligent question suggesting that guns are only a symptom, and that the city isn't addressing the deeper causes of the violence. My belief being that prohibition is driving a large portion of the violence. Hopefully they figure it out soon before more lives are ended short. They're losing about 1 per day.

http://detroit.cbslo.../1022-wwj-plus/ -click on "Child Shooting"

Edited by legacy, 26 February 2012 - 09:35 PM.

[legacy]

i think we're saying the same thing... black markets are created by governments prohibiting certain goods or activities. The fewer black market commodities, the less fuel there is for gangs to survive, and thus fewer gangs and less gang activity and violence. The way to having fewer black market commodities is to legalize more of them. I'm not just talking about mj, but all other things associated with victimless crime. i would assume though, that the more items are legalized, the less violence there will be.

[nthlghts]

Wrong, and might I say very naive. Ever hear of extortion and protection, been around forever.

i think we're saying the same thing... black markets are created by governments prohibiting certain goods or activities. The fewer black market commodities, the less fuel there is for gangs to survive, and thus fewer gangs and less gang activity and violence. The way to having fewer black market commodities is to legalize more of them. I'm not just talking about mj, but all other things associated with victimless crime. i would assume though, that the more items are legalized, the less violence there will be.

[LITLJON]

What world do you live in? A drive-by never targets one person a drive-by is meant to kill any and all. Prohibition has very little todo with it. Unfortunitly pride, respect and some stupidity, also Try poverty. You can give a gang banger weed will he smoke it? maybe but he is more likly going to hussle it for the cash.

When legal businesses have disagreements, they sue each other in a court of law. When illegal businesses have disagreements, they take the law into their own hands. Gangs do drive-by shootings. Sometimes drive-by shootings hit the wrong person. Recently this happened in Detroit when a gang conflict resulted in a 9 month old being killed in a drive-by.

On the news clip below, city councilwoman Saunteel Jenkins was talking about the need to "get these guns off the streets." Roberta Jasina asked, "Wouldn't criminals just find guns anyway?" Seemed like an intelligent question suggesting that guns are only a symptom, and that the city isn't addressing the deeper causes of the violence. My belief being that prohibition is driving a large portion of the violence. Hopefully they figure it out soon before more lives are ended short. They're losing about 1 per day.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/audio/1022-wwj-plus/ -click on "Child Shooting"

Edited by LITLJON, 22 February 2012 - 09:54 AM.

[cristinew]

the drive by is most of the time drug related so it is caused by Prohibition// remember AL Capone// they were the first to do the drive by,

[LITLJON]

That is the same as saying all accidents that traces of marijuana are found in the blood stream caused it.

the drive by is most of the time drug related so it is caused by Prohibition// remember AL Capone// they were the first to do the drive by,

How much time have you spent in the city? I'll bet not much more than a drive-threw with your doors locked looking for the quickest way out.

Edited by LITLJON, 22 February 2012 - 10:07 AM.

[nthlghts]

I have personally been connected to people in 5 drive bys, one of which I just walked in the door.

1. Traffic incident where we were followed, then they came back.
2. Party where new Filas were stepped on, sign of disrespect. 12 Gauge to chest later at red light.
3. One group looked at another, group and gets guns come back.
4. Punk getting back for being dumped sprays house
5. Punk getting back for being dumped sprays house

As you can see no drugs involved. Funny thing statistics. Stupid people equal stupid acts no matter what they are doing.

the drive by is most of the time drug related so it is caused by Prohibition// remember AL Capone// they were the first to do the drive by,

[Annnie]

About a week ago in grayling mi. A Young single father was shot by the police dept. (police officer had to put away his taser before grabbing his gun) The FIA requested the police to help them remove the fathers young child because he had failed his drug test. NOw thats a senseless death directly a result of prohibition.. So if you need to get mad or even.. direct it to the Crawford county FIA protective services director..

[Estimated Prophet]

Heard this story on the radio this morning.
The mother of the child said that she hoped the police would "take care of the shooter soon, so that we don't have to".
Pretty clear that there will be retaliation murders.
Very tragic that this is what people's lives turn into.

[LITLJON]

I forgot to add sad death did you see the family on tv "just saddening".

[LITLJON]

Didn't read about this.

About a week ago in grayling mi. A Young single father was shot by the police dept. (police officer had to put away his taser before grabbing his gun) The FIA requested the police to help them remove the fathers young child because he had failed his drug test. NOw thats a senseless death directly a result of prohibition.. So if you need to get mad or even.. direct it to the Crawford county FIA protective services director..

Searched this story and it barly made it out of local press.

Edited by LITLJON, 22 February 2012 - 12:20 PM.

[legacy]

Wrong, and might I say very naive. Ever hear of extortion and protection, been around forever.

You're right, extortion has been around forever, and it always will be. It also isn't a victimless crime, and it will never be legalized. Drug sales and use are victimless crimes, and if they are legalized it would take a huge market (and money source) away from gangs; decrease their size, and thus the frequency of violence. If drugs were suddenly legalized, what would the people in the old black market drug industry do? Some might switch to the legal industry. Some might switch to extortion. But i doubt there's enough demand for extortion to employ all of them. Legalizing drugs won't solve all the gang problems, but it will lead to a massive reduction. It would be a lot larger of an impact than what the government has been doing for the past 50 years. What other solution would have such a massive effect?

What world do you live in? A drive-by never targets one person a drive-by is meant to kill any and all. Prohibition has very little todo with it. Unfortunitly pride, respect and some stupidity, also Try poverty. You can give a gang banger weed will he smoke it? maybe but he is more likly going to hussle it for the cash.

Yes, poverty and money are a big lure to gang membership. It takes a lot of people to control all of the stuff that the government makes illegal. If all goods were suddenly legalized, gangs wouldn't need the same amount of people. All the growers, drivers, and sellers would suddenly need to find new work. Suddenly their skills are needed in a legal market. And there would suddenly be job openings for all the work they used to be doing.

In prohibition, if you give a gang banger some weed and he sells the weed in a rival gang's expanding territory, there is a drive-by. If that happened in a legal / regulated market, it would be called competition. No one gets shot when a CVS plants a new store next to a Riteaid. Maybe in addition to legalization, there are other ways to make huge cuts in gang-related violent crime. What do you think?

That is the same as saying all accidents that traces of marijuana are found in the blood stream caused it.

How much time have you spent in the city? I'll bet not much more than a drive-threw with your doors locked looking for the quickest way out.

I'm not sure I understand your reply to cristinew, but it sounds like you might be thinking that she said that being high on drugs is what causes drive-bys. I think she was saying that prohibition causes a business environment where conflicts are settled with violence rather than with peaceful legal means.

[LITLJON]

Yes, poverty and money are a big lure to gang membership. It takes a lot of people to control all of the stuff that the government makes illegal. If all goods were suddenly legalized, gangs wouldn't need the same amount of people. All the growers, drivers, and sellers would suddenly need to find new work. Suddenly their skills are needed in a legal market. And there would suddenly be job openings for all the work they used to be doing.

All I can say to that is

In prohibition, if you give a gang banger some weed and he sells the weed in a rival gang's expanding territory, there is a drive-by. If that happened in a legal / regulated market, it would be called competition. No one gets shot when a CVS plants a new store next to a Riteaid. Maybe in addition to legalization, there are other ways to make huge cuts in gang-related violent crime. What do you think?

Don't intend disrespect this child's death by hi jacking this thread it's a whole new topic, maybe start a new one if you want to go there.

I'm not sure I understand your reply to cristinew, but it sounds like you might be thinking that she said that being high on drugs is what causes drive-bys. I think she was saying that prohibition causes a business environment where conflicts are settled with violence rather than with peaceful legal means.

Posted Today, 09:57 AM

cristinew, on 22 February 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

the drive by is most of the time drug related so it is caused by Prohibition// remember AL Capone// they were the first to do the drive by,

That is the same as saying all accidents that traces of marijuana are found in the blood stream caused it.

I was being, I think the right word would be cynical. Both statements are false.

How much time have you spent in the city? I'll bet not much more than a drive-threw with your doors locked looking for the quickest way out.
Pointing out how naive the statement was. No offense.

I was also attempting to say a drive-by isn't the same as walking up to foe and pumping two rounds in his/her chest. Drive-by rounds don't care who they hit like this child.

All in all there is so much more than just criminal activity when your with a gang. Stereotyping is just wrong.

[cristinew]

A drug war produces violence wars and violence stand side by side, you want less violence end the war..

[wingnut]

A drug war produces violence wars and violence stand side by side, you want less violence end the war..

You have it right. Prohibition has failed, With artificially high profits and lack of civil recourse leading to crime and violence. Police resources spent in futile attempts to stop people from getting it. That means we have to have a different approach to the fact that 14 million Americans choose to smoke marijuana. Marijuana legalization = improving public safety.

[Wild Bill]

The violence falls into the hands of the Fascists who run the government.

They now must "protect" us from the "drug dealers".

The only way they can do this is to take away our Constitutional rights like free speech, the right to bear firearms and fair jury trials.

Of course they don't want to do it, but they must, "For the children!"

[Kevin]

It wasn't the spoon that made Oprah fat.