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Cpl And Patients


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#1 Dizledot

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:45 AM

Perhaps one of the attorneys here can shed some light on this one. As of today where do we stand on our CPL permits. I'm in a sticky situation where I cart afford any negative attention. Do they have access or not because as far as I'm concerned I DO NOT USE ANY ILLEGAL drugs or street drugs so my answer to that question would be no. My background is squeaky clean, not even a parking ticket!

Do we have anyone with the background that could shed some light on this? I've owned guns since I was 18....not giving them up now, no reason to in my eyes. Hell, if I could be strung out on ocycontin for 10 years and have a CPL then I can't see the issue with a less harmful and non addictive medication.

#2 Medcnman

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:50 AM

I am a patient and CG of 5. I renewed my CPL last year. I didnt have any troubles. The Michigan Supreme Court, last year, refused to hear the case involving MM and CPLs citing it was a violation of our second ammendment right to bear arms. Now mine was a renewal and I didnt have to go in front of the gun board, but I'm sure they ran every possible check on me that they could. I still received my CPL. Medcnman.

#3 Dizledot

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:08 AM

Mine is a renewal but the other person is a new application. So big question, anyone have first hand knowledge of new applicants? This is strictly for business reasons, non mm related, and conducting daily business. Unfortunately my company has done jobs in not so nice areas.

#4 Dizledot

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:12 AM

I am a patient and CG of 5. I renewed my CPL last year. I didnt have any troubles. The Michigan Supreme Court, last year, refused to hear the case involving MM and CPLs citing it was a violation of our second ammendment right to bear arms. Now mine was a renewal and I didnt have to go in front of the gun board, but I'm sure they ran every possible check on me that they could. I still received my CPL. Medcnman.


After digesting your comment I would be inclined to believe they still check everything but what size underwear you wear (lol). It's probably the same background check for any warrent, convictions etc.

#5 Medcnman

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:37 AM

After digesting your comment I would be inclined to believe they still check everything but what size underwear you wear (lol). It's probably the same background check for any warrent, convictions etc.

Yes. But....... Had they been able to verify my patient status, I may have received a different letter. This leads me to believe that they A) dont have access to the registry or B) had access and granted me my license based on my 2nd ammendment rights. Not sure which of those I am to hope for......... Medcnman.

#6 anonymousgrower?

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:45 AM

Make sure that you check no when they ask about drug use

#7 Medcnman

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

Make sure that you check no when they ask about drug use

But of course! I dont use illegal drugs. Just the ones that are recommended by my bona-fide physician. LOL. Medcnman.

#8 DLD420

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:32 AM

I applied for my CPL new not renewal in Sept of 11. In Oct I received a letter from the County Gun Board asking me to come to the Nov meeting. They asked me at the meeting if I STILL had a MM card which I replied yes I do and you guys know it (otherwise why would they ask). Turns out the Asst Prosecuting Attorney is a rep on the board and he had informed the rest of the panel that I had tried to use the A.D. in a case I went thru in 09 and he was sure I still had a card, they said because of the ATF letter they were dening me a CPL.I stated he had no business telling them I had a card, he replied it was an open court case so he could say what he wanted. I said the Oregon Supreme Court agreed with the Appellate court in Oregon that I should not be denied and he said it didn't matter that wasn't how it was in Michigan because he had sworn an oath to follow all laws State and Federal. When I said the MMMA was a law in Mich where he worked I was ignored, and told the meeting was ending. Branch County SUX. Oh they didn't even mail me the denial, I had to go to the Courthouse and ask for it I picked it up after 3 months 2 wks ago, they kept my 100$ filing fee also.

Edited by DLD420, 07 May 2012 - 07:51 PM.


#9 Dizledot

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:47 AM

Why would they have access to the patient registry in the first place? Nothing has changed yet or am I missing something in print somewhere?

#10 anonymousgrower?

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:19 AM

The Right To Apply For A Concealed Pistol License
The law expressly forbids the state (i.e. Michigan), any local unit of government (e.g. County Board of Commisioners, Sheriff's Office, or City Council), or any employer from denying a person the right to do any of the following:


  • Apply For A Concealed Pistol License
  • Receive A Concealed Pistol License
  • Carry A Concealed Pistol
However, there are a few exceptions. For one, private employers may legally prohibit their employees from carrying a concealed pistol during the course of his employment duties. In addition, A police agency may prohibit an employee from carrying a concealed pistol if doing so would result in increased insurance premiums, a loss of insurance coverage, or a reduction of insurance coverage.


IV. The Right To Appeal A CPL Refusal Of Issuance
The law bestows upon CPL applicants the right to contest a County Gun Board's refusal to issue a Concealed Pistol License. PA 381 requires that Michigan County Gun Boards must either issue or deny a CPL to an applicant within 30 days after the County Gun Board has received the applicable fingerprint comparison report from the Michigan State Police.

Furthermore, if the Michigan State Police do not forward the applicable fingerprint comparison report to the respective County Gun Board within 30 days after receiving it from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the County Gun Board must issue a temporary CPL to the applicant if he is otherwise qualified. The temporary permit would be valid for either 180 days or at least until the County Gun Board receives the applicable fingerprint comparison report.

If the County Gun Board does not fulfill its statutory requirement to either make a decision on an applicant's prospective CPL within the legally established timelines or fails to issue a temporary CPL when required, an applicant can file suit in Circuit Court to force the issue.

The case will be evaluated by a review of just the public record for error, unless the reason for the "refusal to issue" was made on the basis that the applicant poses a threat to himself or another person. In that case, witnesses must be presented to offer sworn testimony.

If the court determines that the "reason for refusal" was clearly erroneous, the court shall order the County Gun Board to issue a CPL to the applicant. Further, if the court finds that the County Gun Board's rationale for the denial was arbitrary and capricious, the court can order the state and the County Gun Board to reimburse the applicant for his court costs and attorney fees.

IV. The Right To Appeal A CPL Denial
The law bestows upon CPL applicants the right to appeal a denial of licensure. When a Michigan County Gun Board denies an applicant from receiving a CPL, it has a statutory duty to do both of the following tasks within five business days:


  • Inform the applicant in writing of the reasons for the denial. Information shall include all of the following:
    • A statement of the specific and articulable facts supporting the denial.
    • Copies of any writings, photographs, records, or other documentary evidence upon which the denial is based.
  • Inform the applicant in writing of his right to appeal the denial in a Circuit Court hearing.
The denied applicant has the right to file a suit in Circuit Court to contest the CPL denial. The case will be evaluated by a review of just the public record for error, unless the reason for the denial was made on the basis that the applicant poses a threat to himself or another person. In that case, witnesses must be presented to offer sworn testimony.

If the court determines that the denial was clearly erroneous, the court shall order the County Gun Board to issue a CPL to the applicant. Further, if the court finds that the County Gun Board's rationale for the denial was arbitrary and capricious, the court can order the state and the County Gun Board to reimburse the applicant for his court costs and attorney fees



#11 Ionic7

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:09 PM

edit delete 10char

Edited by Ionic7, 20 March 2012 - 02:28 PM.


#12 420Atheist

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:32 PM

I do not think they have access to the database YET. I am considering if I want to renew my MM card because I don't want to lose my CPL. I wonder what their position would be if I just had a caregiver card and not a patient card?

#13 Michael Komorn

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:07 PM

I am working on a case now, that involves a patient who has a cpl, and he was brought before the ccw board for the exclusive reason that they had learned he was a patient. The statement by the board was they had been discussing this internally and my client was the test case. The exact issue was litigated in Oregon, case is called Willis. The Oregon Suprem Court ruled that the patient could not be denied the permit, and the US supreme Court denied certiorari. I will keep you apprised of how things develop.


#14 Guest_animal1x_*

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:47 PM

--

Edited by animal1x, 06 April 2012 - 10:11 PM.


#15 Letterhead954

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:13 AM

I'm hoping to apply for my cpl this summer. Does anyone have a good response if you are asked if you have a card?

#16 Medcnman

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:40 AM

I'm hoping to apply for my cpl this summer. Does anyone have a good response if you are asked if you have a card?

Visa, Master Card, or American Express.......... Medcnman.

#17 Dizledot

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:03 AM

I am working on a case now, that involves a patient who has a cpl, and he was brought before the ccw board for the exclusive reason that they had learned he was a patient. The statement by the board was they had been discussing this internally and my client was the test case. The exact issue was litigated in Oregon, case is called Willis. The Oregon Suprem Court ruled that the patient could not be denied the permit, and the US supreme Court denied certiorari. I will keep you apprised of how things develop.



Thank you, in light of the contrasting information I just might wait and see how this all pans out. I can carry openly in my office, I own the building and just let my partner carry. He's not a patient...

#18 roofratMI

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:04 AM

Visa, Master Card, or American Express.......... Medcnman.


LOL Awesome. a litlle humor first thing Tues. am. :D

#19 Dizledot

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:07 AM

Make sure that you check no when they ask about drug use


For various reasons I can't check the yes boxes until LEO gets their bunny muffin together.....I don't admit anything! It's not a comfortable way to live for me at all.

#20 thanks2

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:17 AM

I'm hoping to apply for my cpl this summer. Does anyone have a good response if you are asked if you have a card?

I would not tell them. It is none of their business what my medical history is as long as it does not include mental health issues. I also would not lie, I would just refuse to answer and ask for legal representation for that line of questioning.

The gun boards find out you have a card by running a background check. If you have every had anything dealing with the justice system or had to show your card during a traffic stop or other incidence it will show up in the background check. No court cases or run ins with the law where the card comes out, no one should know.

Take the 5th amendment seriously and exercise it to exhaustion.




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