Alert Lara'S New Trick

[Restorium2]

You receive a denial to be a caregiver about 5 months after you apply. The grounds for denial are that you have some sort of drug conviction on your record.

 

They inform you that it may or may not be a felony. But since it's a drug conviction you must prove it's not a felony to qualify.

 

They give you a link to ICHAT, a web site the State Police have to help people look up records. So you pay $10 (credit card) to get your records.

 

You find out this charge was from 1981, when you were caught with most of a marijuana joint that you hadn't finished yet, and the cop decided he wanted to charge you for it.

 

The judge decided you were a little fish and should be let go with a $25 fine. The records do not specifically state if it was a felony or misdemeanor.

 

LARA says that you need to go to the court that convicted you back in 1981 and ask them to say it was not a felony. The records clearly DO NOT say it was a felony. That's the newest trick and I'm looking right at the paperwork proving this. This is obviously not a felony. The person in question has been a caregiver for two years prior. Now they are no longer a caregiver for the foreseeable future because of this error. If you have dealt with LARA you know there is no way to even provide them with the information they need to reverse this decision.

[Beans]

Ever get the feeling one of Snyder's new State police officers will be monitoring an I chat record keeping system

Oh sorry guess I should have started this convo in the conspiracy theory section

BS all I keep thinking

[Restorium2]

31 year old misdemeanor and you can't be a caregiver...

[drtarzanmd]

The Best Part is that you can be a

 

Convicted Rapist ,

 

Murder ,

 

a Child Molester .....

 

and be a Caregiver

 

But don't you have a Marijuana Conviction ...

[pic book]

The Best Part is that you can be a

 

Convicted Rapist ,

 

Murder ,

 

a Child Molester .....

 

and be a Caregiver

 

But don't you have a Marijuana Conviction ...

Governor Snigger has no concscience, nor any sense of ethics, fairplay, or justice. Next concern?

[jamrock]

I have a misdemeanor possession charge from 3 years ago. No prob getting cg card, actually it took 4 months longer to get my pt card, and they were sent in same day.

[Restorium2]

5 months after they cashed the check you get this from LARA;

 

Because you have this 31 year old misdemeanor:

[Kevin]

Where did I recently read that Michigan was found to be the most corrupt state in the US.

[bobandtorey]

Where did I recently read that Michigan was found to be the most corrupt state in the US.

 

States considered at the highest risk for corruption are: Michigan, the Dakotas, South Carolina, Maine, Virginia, Georgia, and Wyoming. The highest scoring state (believe it or not) was New Jersey, earning itself a B+ and sitting proud on top of the list. Jersey’s status at the top may confuse some, given the state’s political reputation, but that reputation has actually played a part in the passage of some tough anti-corruption laws. The same goes for other states you’d expect might be getting an F grade that actually wound up in the top 15: Illinois and Louisiana among them.

 

So aside from Michigan, states you would expect corruption from are actually better protected against it. In a sense, maybe they know they’re bad and pass legislation to curb it. States you might expect to be idyllic and laid back actually seem to be the most at-risk, perhaps because they’ve never had to guard themselves against it (traditionally speaking).

 

The Center for Public Integrity conducted their investigation using 330 “Integrity indicators”, each falling into 14 categories including internal auditing and ethics enforcement. In many of the states, there actually are laws in place to prevent corruption, but they are largely ignored and not enforced. Some depressing factoids:

 

Over 650 Georgia government employees took gifts from vendors conducting business within the state between 2007 and 2008. Tennessee hasn’t issued a single ethics penalty since creating a commission tasked with doing just that six years ago. One Maine senator neglected to disclose millions of dollars in state contracts to an organization that he helped run; He got away with it because of a legal loophole.

 

Check the link and see your state’s score. Is your state considered at high-risk for corruption?

 

 

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/207460/the-8-most-corrupt-states-in-the-us/#FxrALe0wy0wCEQRq.99

[Fat Freddy]

With a $25.00 fine that falls under a civil infraction or misdemeanor, If you are near the court of conviction. You can go to city hall and request a copy of your criminal record and from that pong find out

what statue you were charged with violating. Then it is a simple matter of finding out if it was considered a felony or etc. Just did a load of research on what I could read off of the msp report.

Can find no history on the statue. Best bet go to local major library and ask for the law section. Might get lucky and find a law student that would be willing to help.

[Restorium2]

I will be handing this to an attorney that specializes in Michigan Medical Cannabis and see what he says.

[Restorium2]

 

 

Anyone with any legal experience, which includes Melissa Peters, knows that was not a felony. She knows that she is doing something wrong that she CAN do, for the sake of kicking one more miserable caregiver out of the system, that was just trying to get renewed for the SECOND time with this same patient. That's right, the background check passed two times prior. Which should have also been a clue for Melissa. Now this patient and caregiver have been separated, both of their rights have changed.

 

Mellisa Peters broke the law by not following the Act as it directs her and informing of a denial in 15 days, she took over 5 months. There's not even any sorry backdating on this one.

 

She sets up a 30 day window that would possibly allow for her mistake to be corrected. But staggers ahead with her blunder immediately ANYWAY. The letters mailed to the caregiver and patient saying they had 30 days to clear this up were followed by termination of the caregiver in one day from when the letters were mailed.

 

I believe this shows intent. Enough intent for Melissa Peters to not be working for us any longer. Time to pass the torch, you are in need of a career change. I'm going to ride this horse called Melissa as far as she will go and put her away wet when I'm done(figuritively ). My record is good. My numbers are solid. I'm in a position of strength and my attorney(s) are going to swoop down to help the undeniable patient and caregiver that Melissa Peters has harmed.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Restorium2

[Restorium2]

Darn right. I've been waiting for this opportunity. Waiting for over three years. They burn us at every turn. Time for a little payback for the discomfort they have caused so many patients and caregivers in Michigan. I believe MDCH/LARA has been the biggest scorge to patients since our law was passed. They have a ton of bad Karma to burn off and I'm going to help them with that.

[Murph]

Restorium,

 

Look you just have to get the paperwork descrived below -- never threaten with "your Lawyer" as if you going to sue someone never tell them -- everytime I hear someone say they are going to sic their lawyer they usually cannot affford a lawyer (as they are not cheap) and you can do all this yourself in a few hours as I have spelled it out below (and edited it a few times so it is clear as a whistle for others who might get the same thing -- a Felony conviction will NOT disqualify one from being a caregiver -- a felony DRUG conviction will. So you only need prove it is not a felony (which is does not look like) -- PS this is all for educational purposes and I do not give legal advice, so please do consult with Counsel if you have questions or concerns as a Good Attorney is the best thing to have a speed dial if problems occur !

 

This is Just a simple matter of PROVING this is not a felony drug conviction -- I bet they send many of these letters out, It is simple to resolve as going to the Courthouse (noted in the printout) to the Court Clerk's Office (Circuit Court or District Court depending on the Conviction -- some are combined, some are separate so just ask the Clerk's and be nice as they can be your best friend -- do not tinkle them off if at all possible as a bit of Honey goes a long way) and paying to get a Certified Copy of the Conviction/Sentence, and then sending it to the MMMP (and a copy of the Peters letter, and the ORIGINAL Certified Copy of "Conviction/Sentence" from the court file). Peters and the MMMProgram does not care, they just push paper and if they find something questionable, like most Bureaucrats, they just reject it -- the responsibility is on YOU to prove it is not a felony drug charge (and from what I see it is not, so you just got to prove this). It is no big deal and pretty simple.

 

So:

 

1) Go to the Court Clerk's Office of the Court noted (Make darn sure your not got any weapons or drugs or anything on you) clean clothes, ect.....

2) Ask where the Circuit Court Clerks Office is and then ask the Clerk to see your Court File for this conviction (showing the ICHAT if you want) and giving your name --these are all public records available to anyone (including you) as public records are just that -- public. Just have to ask. You need a certified copy of a page in the Court File called "Conviction of Sentence" or close to that....a list is called register of actions and it should say what is in the file, so get the Clerk to help you, probably best not to say anything about Marijuana, just that you need to clear up something in the records is NOT a felony.....

3) look through it for "Conviction/Sentence" or something similar,

4) Get that page (conviction of Sentence, or similar title) CERTIFIED (which is a seal of the court into the paper that it is an exact copy of the page in the Court records as obviously you cannot take the file or pages in it). A certified copy costs like $3 per page (but if your on any public disability --SSDI/SSI, Food Stamps, Medicare, ect. bring the card and ask the Clerk for an "Affidavit of Indigency" to waive the fees), fill it out the Affidavit, no need to list everything you own -- if your on aid that is enough, just check that box and then tell them you need to sign it (MUST be done in front of the clerk, as they will be Notarizing it that they saw YOU sign it [and get a copy of the Affidavit too so you have it in your records]. Soon as this is done they should waive the Cert, copy fees. If they don't or your not on any aid, just pay the ridiculous fees and be done with it -- so you will have a Certified copy of "Conviction of Sentence" or something close -- they should say, or have a box, or cite the Law (MCL XX.XXXXX or MSA XXX.xxxxx, numbers) saying it is a misdemeanor/infraction -- if it IS a Felony better post back here as that will stop you from being a CGr.

5) If you have any problems determining what paper or document is the "Conviction of Sentence" -- then ask the clerk, deputy clerk, head clerk (keep going up the chain, BE NICE) for Help and explain that you need CERTIFIED COPY of "Conviction" - as noted above it is usually called a "Conviction of Sentence" or close to it (the "certified" part is the Clerk's Office will put a seal in the copy, and a stamp that says "true copy" that proves it is an exact copy of the page in the Court File). This is all to prove that this conviction (noted on ICHAT that turned up) was NOT and is not a felony conviction --- It looks like it was probably plead down to some real minor infraction/civil infraction/ or misdemeanor -- a $25 fine backs that up but the amount does not matter as some felonies have such fines in the past that was alot of money --- it is the conviction that matters ---- it does NOT seem to be disqualifying so you just have to play the game and give them what they want -- PROOF it is not a felony drug conviction --- as this is in the MMMAct that a CG cannot have a drug conviction that is a Felony (any other Felony conviction is OK, it is just a prior drug conviction (have no idea why MPP put that in it - I think It does not matter). Do all the above to get the Certified Copy of Conviction/Sentence and then send the certified copy (with the seal you can feel on the paper) to them at the MMMProgram (keep a copy but it will not have the seal in it) --

 

Given that over 25% of the population has some sort of conviction do not feel bad as they have done this crap to everyone it seems, the have made the criminal justice system a JOKE as they have in the past 40-50 years convictied 20-25% of a population -- which is sinful as no people are that bad, they have got it they can lock you up for anything -- they have used the criminal justice system to en-slave people in Michigan. This should be for criminals and not a means to control people -- and when you finish your punishment that should be the end of it -- but as we now see, it has turned in the lifelong employment discrimination as if you have a conviction the databases used in employment screening will find it -- and most times that is the end of the job possibiltiies. This is wrong as once someone has learned, it should be over.

 

Michigan has a "Cradle-to-Grave prison-Industrial complex" now and they, the same people who deny the MMMAct (Schutte's type) being implemented, all just to keep people oppressed and give free labor at 10 cents a day to the gov. if you get incarcerated -- the State is evil somewhat....or certain parts of it are -- as the US now has more people locked up that ANY other population (so we are either the worst humans on earth (I doubt that) or the State has gone nuts (there it is).....just work it man, work it till its resolved...

 

As for the letter saying you must have it removed from the record -- well that is not possible unless you go through expungement which is much more involved -- and nothing in the MMMAct says this so I think Peters is a bit off.

 

It seems for what you have posted, it is not a felony drug charge so just give them what they want (and KEEP COPIES OF EVERYTHING YOU SEND THEM) and send it by certified mail, RRR, so you can prove they received it and keep the green RRR card in the copies of the papers so you know where they are (safe?) -- I would include a letter and request expedited handling of your CG Application as you were turned down wrongfully and your application should now be given priority processing status due to the error (say "the" error, not "their" error, just to be diplomatic) and issue resolved as soon as they get around to doing it. Be careful between now and then as being a CG without card is an issue to be cautious of and don't act as CG.

 

It seems the conviction record (iCHAT print you posted) does not even list the Law (Statute) you were convicted under --- iCHAT is rife with errors as something like 50% of their records have some sort of errors in them so it may, or may not, be as the printout says it is but no doubt it is NOT a felony. The State knows many errors exist in the records, but they say it costs too much to go through and make the corrections -- all I can see are the few numbers which were GUESSED by the computer to be statutes "MCL AC 3562" which could -- OR COULD NOT -- be correct. If you recall it, it might be correct but anyway, to give the MMMP what the want, it only takes a half-hour to visit the Court and go to the Clerks Office to get the Certified Copy and send it to the MMMProgram (keeping copies for your records of everything, as MMMP might loose them). Sending it all in a Certified Mail, RRR (Return Receipt Requested) is like $4.95 plus -- that should resolve it, If not, post what happened and go from there....just got to work it till you get it resolved.....it is not a big deal.

 

Peace,

M

 

 

 

 

Anyone with any legal experience, which includes Melissa Peters, knows that was not a felony. She knows that she is doing something wrong that she CAN do, for the sake of kicking one more miserable caregiver out of the system, that was just trying to get renewed for the SECOND time with this same patient. That's right, the background check passed two times prior. Which should have also been a clue for Melissa. Now this patient and caregiver have been separated, both of their rights have changed.

 

Mellisa Peters broke the law by not following the Act as it directs her and informing of a denial in 15 days, she took over 5 months. There's not even any sorry backdating on this one.

 

She sets up a 30 day window that would possibly allow for her mistake to be corrected. But staggers ahead with her blunder immediately ANYWAY. The letters mailed to the caregiver and patient saying they had 30 days to clear this up were followed by termination of the caregiver in one day from when the letters were mailed.

 

I believe this shows intent. Enough intent for Melissa Peters to not be working for us any longer. Time to pass the torch, you are in need of a career change. I'm going to ride this horse called Melissa as far as she will go and put her away wet when I'm done(figuritively ). My record is good. My numbers are solid. I'm in a position of strength and my attorney(s) are going to swoop down to help the undeniable patient and caregiver that Melissa Peters has harmed.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Murph

[Stingray]

I'm having pretty much the same problem. The only difference is I'm not already a caregiver and mine was sent by some one other than Melissa Peters. I'm glad they sent me that letter right away instead of cashing my check and waiting till some plants were growing. I did pretty much what Murph said. Only problem was there is no one piece of paper that says I don't have a felony so I had to pay for 3 at $11 a piece. The first paper saying count 1 which was a felony charge was thrown out. A second paper saying I was convicted of count 2 and only count 2. The third paper saying what count 2 was and that it was a High Court Misdemeanor. I called and talked to "K. Washington" the woman who apparently sent me my denial papers asking for the court documents and explained all this to her and she said it would suffice. Mailed it all in today. I will update with what happens.

[ozzrokk]

I'm having pretty much the same problem. The only difference is I'm not already a caregiver and mine was sent by some one other than Melissa Peters. I'm glad they sent me that letter right away instead of cashing my check and waiting till some plants were growing. I did pretty much what Murph said. Only problem was there is no one piece of paper that says I don't have a felony so I had to pay for 3 at $11 a piece. The first paper saying count 1 which was a felony charge was thrown out. A second paper saying I was convicted of count 2 and only count 2. The third paper saying what count 2 was and that it was a High Court Misdemeanor. I called and talked to "K. Washington" the woman who apparently sent me my denial papers asking for the court documents and explained all this to her and she said it would suffice. Mailed it all in today. I will update with what happens.

 

 

Wow are you saying they sent you a denial BEFORE they cashed your check ? If so, how long did it take them to send you a denial letter ?

[Kingpinn]

Getting to the point screw the whole thing .Use my meds til they bust me and deal with it from there. Probly the Supreme Court would appove of that

[Restorium2]

Yeah. I'm going to wait for the next caregiver renewal before I send in my 'pieces of paper'. It's such a mixed up deal when they canceled me months after the application was sent in and the check was cashed. I could have tried to reverse it for the remaining 2 months. I just said no. I took a 6 month vacation from being a legal caregiver. No harm in this case because the patients are still being taken care of with their needs. We do the best we can to stay legal. But health comes first. It always will...

Edited August 16, 2012 by Restorium2

[Stingray]

 

 

Wow are you saying they sent you a denial BEFORE they cashed your check ? If so, how long did it take them to send you a denial letter ?

Well as they see it it's not my check it's the patients. We sent in a money order and I'm assuming they cashed it because they sent the patient a letter telling him hes been approved but I wasn't and that he could either file for a new caregiver or not. We both got our letters in about two weeks. Maybe next time we should use personal checks?

[Restorium2]

Well as they see it it's not my check it's the patients. We sent in a money order and I'm assuming they cashed it because they sent the patient a letter telling him hes been approved but I wasn't and that he could either file for a new caregiver or not. We both got our letters in about two weeks. Maybe next time we should use personal checks?

Personal check AND certified mail.

[ozzrokk]

Well as they see it it's not my check it's the patients. We sent in a money order and I'm assuming they cashed it because they sent the patient a letter telling him hes been approved but I wasn't and that he could either file for a new caregiver or not. We both got our letters in about two weeks. Maybe next time we should use personal checks?

 

Yep what Restorium said. ALWAYS. That way you know exactly when something happens.

 

That is why I was surprised when I thought they had checked your app. before they cashed check. That is Government 101 ALWAYS CASH THE CHECK.......

Edited August 17, 2012 by ozzrokk

[Murph]

Ozzrock and All,

 

Gov. is a game -- learn to play good and you will have no problems. Just have to be better at the rules (and the zillions of exceptions) and overcoming them than they are. It is really very simple if you keep your emotions in check, do what is required, and move on.

 

Seriously, the Card gives us IMMUNITY from arrest. Immunity is a big deal, as is an Affirmative Defense -- and since the Mich Sup. Crt. ruled, I think most (not all, most) places and LEO have slowed the game playing since they see it is NOT going to work. We only need to keep resisting, keep calling them out when the violate rights, AND DO NOT GIVE UP !

 

Remember when, back in they day, someone told you - WINNERS NEVER QUIT ! Well that applies to life and medical marijuana as they want to bamboozel and stall and evade, and We collectively cannot. I know leadership in Mich on this issue is missing, so it means all of us need to step up and defend the rights We obtained in the Initiative and this is one of those cases. Sure it is a hassle. Sure you could keep your costs and receipts and send them a bill (never get it) -- But I say just do what I posted above if you get one of these letters of denial and IF you do not have a drug felony conviction (most are misdemeanors, especially for MJ) then go about getting the proof and send it in. KEEP COPIES AND RECORDS, SEND IN CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED (The green card...do not forget to put YOUR address on the back so that when they mail it back it comes to you not lost in the mail) so the MMProgram has to sign for it, and your good to go soon as you get the response.

 

THIS IS REALLY A BIG BIG DEAL PEOPLE, NOT IN 80+ YEARS HAVE WE HAD THE ABILITY TO POSSESS MARIJUANA AND NOT GET ARRESTED. SO FLEX YOUR RIGHTS.

 

ALSO, go to http://www.flexyourrights.org/ and learn how to better deal with LEO issues. Preperation is needed for these situations. Most people screw up if they do not prepare for confrontations with LEO, it can be done successfully as your decisions, words, and actions on the street all have an impact on what happens in Court if you end up there, it is simple, indeed the job of LEO to drag you into court, they arrest people for a living, many do not realize this. Many do not know LEO can lie to you all day long and get away with it (the Courts have ruled they can lie without penalty). So you best know how to handle things IF IT EVER HAPPENS and come out OK. I would rather do this then have a conviction --

 

A simple thing as saying "NO" to a request to search means any evidence is challengable if they find (or plant) anything. A LEO planting something knows this so they might not try in the first place. IMHO no one should ever, ever consent to any search, let them get a warrant. Make sure you have inhouse alarms, video rolling in House, (and car if possible) at the trigger of an entry, as you need PROOF when called upon to defend yourself. I'll get off the soapbox now, but I want US, the MMJ Community to be prepared, to be ready to repeal any attack by the Gov. -- even Housing Code inspectors, consumers and DTE repair techs -- anyone can flip you and it is up to you to be ready. Hopefully, you will be and given your legal, walk away, or if arrested, blow it out of Court on a first Hearing to dismiss. No need for long finacially destructive legal battles, what you do now, today, this week could determine the outcome of a case in a month, a year, or a decade from now -- BE READY, BE PREPARED !!

 

Peace,

 

Murph_

[Restorium2]

Since this is the thread I started, I feel the need to reply to:

 

Gov. is a game -- learn to play good and you will have no problems. Just have to be better at the rules (and the zillions of exceptions) and overcoming them than they are. It is really very simple if you keep your emotions in check, do what is required, and move on.

 

The government/LARA didn't play by the rules in my case. They waited months to tell me my record problem was going to make me ineligible to be a caregiver. They waited way past what the rules dictate to ask me about my 30 year old misdemeanor. I feel your comment is out of place in my case. They didn't play by the rules. You can't expect one side to do that, cheat, and the other side to somehow win, while they have to play by the rules. It's not a fair fight. They cheated and won. So you are flat wrong when you say that if we play by the rules there will be no problem. Flat wrong Murph. And emotions had nothing to do with my case and this thread. I have an excellent EQ.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Restorium2

[Stingray]

Make sure you have inhouse alarms, video rolling in House, (and car if possible) at the trigger of an entry, as you need PROOF when called upon to defend yourself.

 

Murph_

 

Didn't they make it illegal for civilians to record LEO's?

[ozzrokk]

Ozzrock and All,

 

Gov. is a game -- learn to play good and you will have no problems. Just have to be better at the rules (and the zillions of exceptions) and overcoming them than they are. It is really very simple if you keep your emotions in check, do what is required, and move on.

 

Seriously, the Card gives us IMMUNITY from arrest. Immunity is a big deal, as is an Affirmative Defense -- and since the Mich Sup. Crt. ruled, I think most (not all, most) places and LEO have slowed the game playing since they see it is NOT going to work. We only need to keep resisting, keep calling them out when the violate rights, AND DO NOT GIVE UP !

 

Remember when, back in they day, someone told you - WINNERS NEVER QUIT ! Well that applies to life and medical marijuana as they want to bamboozel and stall and evade, and We collectively cannot. I know leadership in Mich on this issue is missing, so it means all of us need to step up and defend the rights We obtained in the Initiative and this is one of those cases. Sure it is a hassle. Sure you could keep your costs and receipts and send them a bill (never get it) -- But I say just do what I posted above if you get one of these letters of denial and IF you do not have a drug felony conviction (most are misdemeanors, especially for MJ) then go about getting the proof and send it in. KEEP COPIES AND RECORDS, SEND IN CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED (The green card...do not forget to put YOUR address on the back so that when they mail it back it comes to you not lost in the mail) so the MMProgram has to sign for it, and your good to go soon as you get the response.

 

THIS IS REALLY A BIG BIG DEAL PEOPLE, NOT IN 80+ YEARS HAVE WE HAD THE ABILITY TO POSSESS MARIJUANA AND NOT GET ARRESTED. SO FLEX YOUR RIGHTS.

 

ALSO, go to http://www.flexyourrights.org/ and learn how to better deal with LEO issues. Preperation is needed for these situations. Most people screw up if they do not prepare for confrontations with LEO, it can be done successfully as your decisions, words, and actions on the street all have an impact on what happens in Court if you end up there, it is simple, indeed the job of LEO to drag you into court, they arrest people for a living, many do not realize this. Many do not know LEO can lie to you all day long and get away with it (the Courts have ruled they can lie without penalty). So you best know how to handle things IF IT EVER HAPPENS and come out OK. I would rather do this then have a conviction --

 

A simple thing as saying "NO" to a request to search means any evidence is challengable if they find (or plant) anything. A LEO planting something knows this so they might not try in the first place. IMHO no one should ever, ever consent to any search, let them get a warrant. Make sure you have inhouse alarms, video rolling in House, (and car if possible) at the trigger of an entry, as you need PROOF when called upon to defend yourself. I'll get off the soapbox now, but I want US, the MMJ Community to be prepared, to be ready to repeal any attack by the Gov. -- even Housing Code inspectors, consumers and DTE repair techs -- anyone can flip you and it is up to you to be ready. Hopefully, you will be and given your legal, walk away, or if arrested, blow it out of Court on a first Hearing to dismiss. No need for long finacially destructive legal battles, what you do now, today, this week could determine the outcome of a case in a month, a year, or a decade from now -- BE READY, BE PREPARED !!

 

Peace,

 

Murph_

 

Ahhhh in a perfect world..... True the card is a good thing and for most people it appears to be the savior and then for some not so much......