289 replies to this topic

[peanutbutter]

as per the FDA .. grow the plant and then extract the THC.

[restlesslegs]

thanks
but when you have Judges in the COA ignoring the plain text of the Law and saying it is confusing.
Thats what we thought also but the last time we were in court the judge even said that the Law is very clear and any body should be able to understand it i could not believe it she used the word (acumen) and she said that because of my pass arrest 8 years ago that the similarity between the offenses it is highly probative of the fact that the defendant (me) is involved in a continuing Enterprise of distributing illegal narcotics
Yup word for Word

No kidding! That is crazy. I had a little visit from them about the same time you did before it was supposedly legal. I was very lucky I was not arrested but unfortunately a friend was. I can hardly believe she would compare the old charge with growing now.

[Croppled1]

There's justice and there's law. And they aren't always the same thing. Judges rule on law. And if you read what they've published, it sounds like they know that it's not about justice. They basically come out and say their hands are tied by the law and that here's what can be done about it. Reschedule it... under the Michigan Public Health Code or define impairment. That's where we're at.

I know some zero tolerance States specifically exclude cannabis from their zero tolerance law with specific language . Would that not be a third possibillity for qualified patients who require therapuetic levels that saliva and blood tests don't consider ? The direction the Obama administration and supporters of limits are taking would place every patient acting in good faith and whom drives just fine in jeopordy of arrest and conviction without regard to function just a arbitrary limit . It does not take into consideration the great financial , physical and mental costs to patients from loosing driving privilages as well as the economic impact on society .

This is despite evidence that experts admit no limit exists that reflects impairment now or is there hope that one will be found in our lifetimes .

. In the article linked below the drug Czar also states there must be a upper limit of use that impairs all patients . However is that necessarily true ? Cannabis is non toxic and nobody has ever overdosed except on the sythentic marinol . Every other medical substance I know of including vitamens have toxic levels that can lead to death and in most states they can be taken legally while actually driving . Nobody is fighting for access while driving to medical cannabis . These are very scary times for medical cannabis patients and many are being hurt when they only want to drive short distances to Church ,a Park , a Doctor , Work if allowed access and able , or a local Community activity which are all a requirement of mental and physical health . What is the alternative ? Public transportation is not a option for many of the disabled who cannot adapt to the constraints of shared rides or cost especially in rural areas nor can we move and house patients to suitable assisted living arrangements that provide these needs on site , within walking or wheel chair distance . Few facilities even exist in this State . I hope cannabis is rescheduled as it should be and as a community of patients we have to overcome our fears on our abillity have affordable grows . The two should not be mutually exclusive .

http://postbulletin.....php?id=1490397

Edited by Croppled1, 29 April 2012 - 07:52 AM.

[Irishgreen]

I think what bobandtorey refer is his case. And this is one of the many criminal cases were the Medical Marijuana Community let you (and really all of US) down miserably. WE as a community should have been rallying around you in every sense of the word -- I do not mean this in some metaphysical, figurative sense --- I mean MONEY !!




I am really sorry We failed you. You do have a right to be upset, but I can tell you if it (your case) was properly handled from the start, it MIGHT have turned out differently.

We still should start doing what We needed to do 2-3 years ago start collecting a small amount from every new registry card holder -- say $10 a year (for those not getting the discount) to put into a legal defense fund and administered by an elected or semi-elected team (and I do NOT mean general election, I mean a private one of people contributing or some other mechanism that is not too massive and uncontrolable but the details can be worked out later).

The purpose of the fund would be to change everything from criminal cases to supporting elections -- a PAC essentially but one able to help single people as these are the cases that end up appealed and as I think bonandtorey will attest, years of litigation destroys one person and needs funding from outside sources or it gets dismissed as financially it is unsustainable. This could "even things up" for defendants fighting criminal cases against the enourmous resources of the State. To provide a good defense your need Attorneys, Paralegals, Court Reporters, researchers, investigators, appellate team, jury consultants, ect., . and the reasons are simple, We need to start looking at this as a long term issue like NORML has for 30 years.

We need to (and I do not recall the exact facts of your case bobandtorey, off the top of my head) at least Organize EFFECTIVELY, that is the first step and can be done cheaply online with a LAMP system or on Amazon AWS -- if We do things right from the start, and then incrementally build up the resources needed to do the above things, then start helping in cases and appeals, and finally elections, slowly things will change. No magic bullet exists to all of a sudden fix this, it is an ongoing thing and We are terribly outgunned right now as We do not even have a Statewide Organization with numbers, and We have single individuals, and small groups, saying they represent "us" much like the Legislators say they represent "us" when they do nothing of the sort -- they represent their special interests. No one is looking at and defending the big picture with the needed resources.

At a minimum such an Organiaztion has to be inclusionary not exclusionary -- sure some people spout off but cutting them off, banning them, locking things solves nothing -- we need to listen and move on and not let such people waste our valuable time. And the Organization has to be large enough, and ongoing, to include the vast majority of MM Patients/caregivers and have at its center, defense of the LAW that was garnered in mainly by MPP --the sooner we do this and go on the offensive, the sooner things will start to change.

"They" will soon start to realize they have grabbed a tiger by the tail. At a minimum will have to let them know they will have a fight on their hands because as of right now, they have won every battle and not even broke a sweat -- We have lost every battle.

They sit back and watch us destroy ourselves.

They sit back and watch us in-fight amongst ourselves about petty nonsense.

They sit back and know We have no organization

They sit back and know no one is defending the majority of Patients and Caregivers rights.

We cannot even mold Legislation because not one Legislator in the House or Senate has proposed a Bill WE want pushed to correct the things WE want corrected -- most of the Bills have come from ex-Sheriff Sen. Jones -- and you only need to say X-LEO to know how He leans !!

Most of all they know we have no money. We fund no defense even in cases that We know are going to do damage -- we do not want to hand the Court of Appeals cases like Koon where He was drunk, speeding, and snitched on himself -- and I realize We cannot force people not to do things but with an organization and funding We can do alot -- not everything -- but hopefully enough.

LEGAL ACTION BY MM ACTIVISTS IN MICHIGAN -- NONE. (The only person who has is Atty. Grow and that was local lowest law enforcement priority stuff, which is un-enforceable).

It is so sad We have not even sued the Medical Marijuana Program that has for 3 years of sent out 1 year Registry Cards some 6, 7, 8 months after the applications are received WHEN THE LAW SAYS, INDEED says Registry Cards "shall be" (which means hard line must do it in legal language) sent out in 20 DAYS or less -- it is a slam dunk of a "case" to win as a matter of law - heck they even admit it on the web page how bad they have been preforming -- and a paper system when it should all be online is atrocious. Many of the people arrested has been because of not having "cards" even though the law says paperwork is in it's place after 20 days (but how many people have you seen with Notarized paperwork as the Act requires)? None.

The old adage "United We stand, Divided We fall" certainly applies to US HERE IN Michigan -- our opponents are destroying US

COA Judges issuing diatribes should have been the first indication they threw out all semblance of Judicial restraint and were going to be purely political in issuing decisions (mainly because they have prosecuted Marrijuana so long they cannot grasp it being legal).

These Judges are not even a minimally intellectually honest and they ignore or omit from consideration the plain text of the Act when it suits them -- and We cannot even garner ONE response -- We have ONE Application for Leave to Appeal to the Mi Sup Crt. ONE in three years when We should have a good half-dozen !

And our "Leaders" somehow think some "letter" with "unified" names on it will deter them Legislators from (trying) to pass the Bills into Law -- the super majority built into the Act is the only thing slowing them down as they simply do not have the votes (if it is along party lines). The "immediate-effect-o-gate may have had something to do with it as they were just ramming Laws into immediate effect essentially corruptly as they did not have the 2/3rds vote to do so --- they certainly do not have a 75% super-majority to amend the medical marijuana in both Chambers -- in the House the spread is simply to large for them to overcome (I hope, as We know behind the scene "buy offs" happen all the time).

Our opponents only understand two things --- 1) Money and 2) Votes. We have neither


M

We had a group, that was started for exactly what you are talking about, it was to handle the legal information side of things. They were to keep up on cases in each county, and were going to collect funds to help with legal defenses. I am pulling a blank on the name of the organization, but it was formed of all members from here. Good people. But, sadly....it got little support.

[bobandtorey]

I know some zero tolerance States specifically exclude cannabis from their zero tolerance law with specific language . Would that not be a third possibillity for qualified patients who require therapuetic levels that saliva and blood tests don't consider ? The direction the Obama administration and supporters of limits are taking would place every patient acting in good faith and whom drives just fine in jeopordy of arrest and conviction without regard to function just a arbitrary limit . It does not take into consideration the great financial , physical and mental costs to patients from loosing driving privilages as well as the economic impact on society .

This is despite evidence that experts admit no limit exists that reflects impairment now or is there hope that one will be found in our lifetimes .

. In the article linked below the drug Czar also states there must be a upper limit of use that impairs all patients . However is that necessarily true ? Cannabis is non toxic and nobody has ever overdosed except on the sythetic marinol . Every other medical substance I know of including vitamens have toxic levels that can lead to death and in most states they can be taken legally while actually driving . Nobody is fighting for access while driving to medical cannabis . These are very scary times for medical cannabis patients and many are being hurt when they only want to drive short distances to Church ,a Park , a Doctor , Work if allowed access and able , or a local Community activity which are all a requirement of mental and physical health . What is the alternative ? Public transportation is not a option for many of the disabled who cannot adapt to the constraints of shared rides or cost especially in rural areas nor can we move and house patients to suitable assisted living arrangements that provide these needs on site or within walking or wheel chair distance .

http://postbulletin.....php?id=1490397

i agree maybe we need a test case?any body up for it? of course you would need lots of $$$$

[bobandtorey]

We had a group, that was started for exactly what you are talking about, it was to handle the legal information side of things. They were to keep up on cases in each county, and were going to collect funds to help with legal defenses. I am pulling a blank on the name of the organization, but it was formed of all members from here. Good people. But, sadly....it got little support.

i think it even had a map for it
i was going to so many case's 3 to 4 a week but no one else came

[Restorium2]

That's the one VV and TJ had going, right? 3M something wasn't it?

[Irishgreen]

That's the one VV and TJ had going, right? 3M something wasn't it?

I remember Welj and Cindy being a part of it......

I think VV too, now that you mention it

[bobandtorey]

That's the one VV and TJ had going, right? 3M something wasn't it?

am thinking it was john walsh or john something w

[bobandtorey]

I remember Welj and Cindy being a part of it...... I think VV too, now that you mention it

i think you are right john Welj i no Cindy was involved

[Restorium2]

3med?

[Irishgreen]

3med?

Yep....that's it!


Ding Ding Ding....We have a Winner! LOL

[bobandtorey]

http://michiganmedic...__1#entry169740

[Irishgreen]

OMGosh...Bob, I would have thought that was back when Greg was still here. I can't believe it was when Blueberry was here!

[Restorium2]

There was some overlap.

[Murph]

perhaps We should see where these people went and if they are still around and what work they did --

I hate re-inventing the wheel if someone else did alot of grond work.

Irish Girl do you know? Can you contact them or tell them to come to this thread?
BTW great name!!

M

Edited by Murph, 29 April 2012 - 01:34 PM.

[AKenewell]

perhaps We should see where these people went and if they are still around and what work they did --

I hate re-inventing the wheel if someone else did alot of grond work.

Irish Girl do you know? Can you contact them or tell them to come to this thread?
BTW great name!!

M

welj31 (John) is a very good friend of our's..he is still around. I will ask him about coming and posting some info, but one thing is for sure John is a great guy who has done a lot for this community!!

[pic book]

Complexity rules the roost

[Irishgreen]

I think I know where a few of them are....I will send some messages....

[peanutbutter]

Seriously ..

The labs can only prove you had, at least, one of two kinds of THC .. One of them a schedule one substance.

How can you assume the THC is the schedule one kind?

Zero evidence is introduced to show one kind of THC over the other.

How can you presume the more serious offense? When evidence only shows THC yet not the form?

How can it be presumed it is the more serious form?

Beyond reasonable doubt?

The lab has shown presense of at least a schedule three substance and possibly a schedule one substance.

Additional evidense is required to determine if it is the more serious form of THC.

Edited by peanutbutter, 29 April 2012 - 04:09 PM.