Indiana Resident Seeks Card

[Ms Chocolate]

Some months back, I attended one of “THOSE” MMJ workshops. I asked the LARA rep your very question. I was told that the applicant just needed to have a Michigan mailing address. You do not need a MI DL. You can live anywhere and apply for a MI card, so long as you have a MI mailing address.

 

The thing is, MI only recognize card holders from those states that recognizes MI cardholders, (Section 4 (j) A registry identification card, or its equivalent, that is issued under the laws of another state, district, territory, commonwealth, or insular possession of the United States that allows the medical use of marihuana by a visiting qualifying patient, or to allow a person to assist with a visiting qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana, shall have the same force and effect as a registry identification card issued by the department) California is not one of those states.

[Dr. Bob]

Those same meetings said that you could not use 'patient reported' symptoms (ie check lists/affidavits/no record certs) as a basis of the certification.

 

The intent is clearly to be a Michigan resident. The form requires a Michigan address. Splitting frog hairs to try and 'can do if you want it enough $$$$' still is not good advice.

 

Dr. Bob

[Ms Chocolate]

The intent is clearly to be a Michigan resident. The form requires a Michigan address. Splitting frog hairs to try and 'can do if you want it enough $$$$' still is not good advice.

 

Dr. Bob

 

Maybe not. I was just stating the answer to a question that have been asked many times on this board, and that I personally asked a rep from LARA.

 

I have heard of people with ID cards, who live in surrounding states, who work or have family in MI. These people spend lots of their time in Michigan, thus would have the required MI mailing addresses. I heard of one guy who comes for treatment at Henry Ford Hospital. These ID will not provide any protection when they go home, but should cover them while here.

 

Still, a MI card will not provide you coverage in CA or OR

 

 

-also corrected some spelling-

Edited May 10, 2012 by Ms Chocolate

[Restorium2]

This should clear it up. You will need all of this to qualify;

 

 

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/DE40_032001_20459_7.pdf

[Dr. Bob]

Press Release:

 

Office of the Attorney General (not really just making a point)

 

Lansing

Attorney General Bill Schuette today announce a criminal investigation of certification clinics after multible reports of 'questionable certifications' being issued to unqualifed patients seeking to abuse a dangerous schedule 1 narcotic.

 

The Michigan voters were 'duped' as AG Schuette termed it 'into thinking they were approving the compassionate use of marijuana for terminally ill patients' when in reality many patients are young, healthy drug abusers looking for a legal high.....

 

Citing a recent I Team investigation reporting hidden camera interviews with 'hotel doctors' showing many undocumented, young patients walking in and getting ' rubber stamped' by these so called 'cannabis specialists'. Many of these patients had no medical documentation, underwent no medical exam, and in some cases never even saw a doctor. Investigators from the AG's office even found numerous patients that weren't even residents of Michigan, but crossed the border from neighboring states presenting nothing more than a Michigan Library Card to get certified.

 

AG Schuette has summarily suspended the medical license of several of these 'so called cannabis specialists' as this represents a clear danger to the law abiding public and will request the Republican dominiated legislature suspend the Act until appropriate legislation can be introduced to 'bring sanity' back to the program.......

 

 

tell me you don't see him doing something like this. Even if you argue that it is technically 'ok' to use alternative forms of ID for folks that don't have actual Michigan residency, how does this look to the non-MMJ public. We have enough trouble protecting our own residents under the Act to start getting 'loosy goosy' with out of state patients.

 

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

Compare that to my requirements:

 

Michigan DL

Michigan ID

 

No question whatsoever you are a Michigan resident, it has been verified by the state. One less thing for them to attack the patient and the program with.

 

The goal here is NOT just to make money by writing as many certs as possible on the least amount of evidence to 'slide by'. The goal is SOLID certifications for DOCUMENTED patients to make sure they, and by extention, the Act will stand up to court and medical board review. We want the Act to have a good reputation, we want patients viewed as legitimate and qualifed as the voters intended. That is how the Act in general survives. We were NOT giving that impression which resulted in a overwhelming reaction to return 'order and the intent of the Act' by the legislature.

 

If you don't think that was the impression that prompted the legislature to Act, let's review the last time 75% of them agreed on ANYTHING, to include what time to break for lunch. Pay attention to the non MMJ public folks, be aware of the image you represent. Realize there is a difference between what you 'technically' can do and what you should do.

 

Tighten up your game, versus making a quick buck with no concern for the long term results of your actions.

 

Dr. Bob

[Restorium2]

Investigators from the AG's office even found numerous patients that weren't even residents of Michigan, but crossed the border from neighboring states presenting nothing more than a Michigan Library Card to get certified.

 

 

There's your clue. The AG's right hand, the legislature, will direct you from here. Adjusting your paperwork will be impossible, you just get disqualified.

[Dr. Bob]

I guess my practice philosophy is clear. You have an 'Alternative' view as well. You decide which protects the community and which protects itself. And while you are at it, ask yourself if your certification documents are protected medical records, and who fought to have them kept that way vs who fought (and won) to have them declared NOT medical records.

 

Pretty much sums things up.

 

Dr. Bob

 

PS good time to think about that 'recertify through the mail' offer you got. Wonder how that looks in court- for you, especially in light of the medical board guidelines and HB 4851 that REQUIRES you actually meet with the doc. Guess if we can squeeze a few more dollars out before it goes into effect, that's ok. But who's tail is on the line?

 

DON'T RENEW BY MAIL...

Edited May 8, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[HEMP4LIFE]

Compare that to my requirements:

 

Michigan DL

Michigan ID

 

No question whatsoever you are a Michigan resident, it has been verified by the state. One less thing for them to attack the patient and the program with.

 

The goal here is NOT just to make money by writing as many certs as possible on the least amount of evidence to 'slide by'. The goal is SOLID certifications for DOCUMENTED patients to make sure they, and by extention, the Act will stand up to court and medical board review. We want the Act to have a good reputation, we want patients viewed as legitimate and qualifed as the voters intended. That is how the Act in general survives. We were NOT giving that impression which resulted in a overwhelming reaction to return 'order and the intent of the Act' by the legislature.

 

If you don't think that was the impression that prompted the legislature to Act, let's review the last time 75% of them agreed on ANYTHING, to include what time to break for lunch. Pay attention to the non MMJ public folks, be aware of the image you represent. Realize there is a difference between what you 'technically' can do and what you should do.

 

Tighten up your game, versus making a quick buck with no concern for the long term results of your actions.

 

Dr. Bob

 

 

I AGREE, and the overall outcome or goal is to provide a better quality of life for sick and ill patients. turn around their own immune system function, detox their systems and provide the foundation of cellular health with a alkaline and immune response towards cancer resistance of the patients body. that's the conversation a doctor , care provider and patient should have. but usually the doctor is not present, thats why a knowlegable care provider is essitental. but for best results all three should be having these meetings . still more to learn.

thanks dr bob for your insight.

 

looks like alot of things got mixed up with interpitation corruption and trying to scam the system so now those who have to play by the rules will pay. Those who did damage by trying to scam will leave the system and go back to unregistered statis.

Edited May 9, 2012 by HEMP4LIFE

[Dr. Bob]

Hopefully they will. There are other ways to make money without risking patients and the Act. Pity is they could have done it right and still made money.

 

Dr. Bob

Edited May 9, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[HEMP4LIFE]

Hopefully they will. There are other ways to make money without risking patients and the Act. Pity is they could have done it right and still made money.

 

Dr. Bob

 

i know its like let WHO make money. not the little guy

[HEMP4LIFE]

i know its like let WHO make money. not the little guy

they couldnt possibly let us grow are own meds and skip the huge billion dollar health system they just ramped up

cureing ourselves

they want us sick

they need us sick

they wont have it

[Dr. Bob]

I was referring to folks that were cutting corners to abuse the MMMA at the expense of patients, but you are right, it seems there is a larger picture as well.

 

Dr. Bob

[Cannalytics]

You are wrong. The 'other ID' is the Michigan ID if you do not have a drivers license.

 

I think you should take another look at the form: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdch/Medical_Marihuana_Packet_3-27-09_272862_7.pdf

[Celliach]

I am still amazed that anyone would think a state law would apply to someone that's not a citizen of that state.

[Restorium2]

Here's the deal;

 

We get someone(a new member) here asking how to beat the system. Then, at the same time, we get Schuette commenting on it to the press. LOL See the handwriting on the wall. This stuff is too obvious to ignore.

[Beans]

YUP !

[GanjaWarrior]

ag bull bad doesnt make the law....what he says is pure bull bunny muffin plain as day....man oi see one person came back to this site now hes twisting it for his own greed...

[Celliach]

ag bull bad doesnt make the law....what he says is pure bull bunny muffin plain as day....man oi see one person came back to this site now hes twisting it for his own greed...

What the hell are you talking about?

[Restorium2]

ag bull bad doesnt make the law....what he says is pure bull bunny muffin plain as day....man oi see one person came back to this site now hes twisting it for his own greed...

oops

Last time I checked, his bills passed the House and are heading, full steam, through the Senate. Can't ignore reality.

[Dr. Bob]

Cel, they are splitting frog hairs to try and make the point you don't need a Michigan Id or DL. They are correct, but that DOES NOT imply you can use them to bypass the residency requirements. Furthermore, the folks at the state are used to using the DL or ID to confirm residency and may well get confused if taken out of their comfort zone.

 

So to settle the frog farmers YES you can use other sources of ID IF and only IF you are a REAL MICHIGAN RESIDENT. It is not to bypass the residency requirement or pull one over on the process to make a buck selling a cert to an out of state resident.

 

As a direct result of a few postings in here, I've been getting phone calls from mis informed potential patients. So let me clear some things up.

 

I don't write scheduled substances (Marinol) outside of their indications to certification patients trying to get pausable deniabiltiy on a drug test.

'Visiting patient' does not mean an out of state resident that wants to 'visit' Michigan to get a card, even if they have a Michigan library card. It means a resident of another state that has a card from their HOME STATE and are 'visiting' Michigan.

I require a Michigan DL or ID to certify a patient.

 

I'll leave the shady practices to the mills. I keep my patients legal and safe.

 

Dr. Bob

[Celliach]

ag bull bad doesnt make the law....what he says is pure bull bunny muffin plain as day....man oi see one person came back to this site now hes twisting it for his own greed...

BTW, your Thomas Jefferson quote is wrong. It's from "Notes on the State of Virgina" and actually reads:

 

"Had not free enquiry been indulged, at the aera of the reformation, the corruptions of Christianity could not have been purged away. If it be restrained now, the present corruptions will be protected, and new ones encouraged. Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now."

 

Quite a different meaning than is implied by your signature.

[Dr. Bob]

ag bull bad doesnt make the law....what he says is pure bull bunny muffin plain as day....man oi see one person came back to this site now hes twisting it for his own greed...

 

Well let's see here. I've come back to the site, I've called for good practices to protect the law and the patients, and I offer certifications that do both. So should I take it you are referring to me?

 

Tell ya what. How about I just get out of certifications, stop posting here, quit my activism, and just go back to Internal Medicine and leave you to the mills? Smart folks like you don't need help, you can make your own interpretation of the Act and do what you want to. I'm not a caregiver or a patient, and make a crap load of money (far more than through certification) as a good internist doing colonoscopy, echos, and managing diabetes, hypertension, and pain. So really, what's in it for me? Why should I really bother with any of this and stick my neck out for you Ganja? If the Act is gone tomorrow, it doesn't affect me, my practice, or my finances.

 

But you know, I am in this because I believe in it. I want to establish it as a legitimate field of medicine that has the respect and acceptance of my collegues. That is why I do it. And we don't do it with mail order certifications, dodging the rules, and having a freaking free for all because we want to smoke pot or make a buck. We got these bills because of that kind of activity, and the sooner we realize that at times, we are Bill Schuette's biggest ally because we cut corners and bypass the rules to get out tickets punched, the better off we will be.

 

Then in the middle of the fight, we turn on each other for financial gain. Look at this post from the Saginaw News in the middle of the fight with Bill Schuette last November. We were gaining ground showing his warrantless searches of card holders proposal was a CIVIL RIGHTS issue, not a marijuana issue. I was leading the fight in the paper, when this comment appeared....

 

http://connect.mlive...ette/index.html

 

Who is Michael Mallette? A concerned citizen who wanted to bring to light something they found on me? No it was a rival certification clinic posting under a fake name trying to undermine me for their own financial interest without taking into account the effect it had on the issue of the seminars.

 

So the bottom line is everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you can question other people's ideas and opinions, but trying to undermine the position by attacking the person does not help your argument or promote your position.

 

Dr. Bob

Edited May 9, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[Cannalytics]

I am still amazed that anyone would think a state law would apply to someone that's not a citizen of that state.

 

So when you visit other states you don't have to follow their laws? I think Dr. Bob and other physicians are doing the right thing by setting strict guidelines but I just haven't seen anywhere in the law or the administrative rules that EXPLICITLY states you must be a Michigan resident.

[AlternativeSolutionsPlus]

This is all I could find Cannalytics:

 

R 333.103

 

New registration application; qualifying patient and primary caregiver.

 

Rule 3.

 

A qualifying patient applying for a registry identification card shall comply with all of the following:

 

(a) Submit a completed application on a form provided by the department, together with the requisite fee. The completed application shall include all of the following:

 

(i) Name, address, and date of birth of the qualifying patient. The address for the qualifying patient shall be a physical address located in this state. A qualifying patient who is homeless shall not be required to provide a physical address.

 

(ii) Name, address, and telephone number of the qualifying patient's physician.

 

(iii) The name, address, and date of birth of the patient's primary caregiver, if applicable. A qualifying patient may designate 1 primary caregiver to assist with his or her medical use of marihuana.

 

(iv) A designation of whether the qualifying patient or the patient's primary caregiver, if applicable, will be allowed to possess marihuana plants for the qualifying patient's medical use.

 

(v) An attestation by the primary caregiver named on the application that he or she agrees to serve as the patient's primary caregiver.

 

(vi) A primary caregiver shall authorize the department to use the information provided on the application to secure his or her criminal conviction history to determine if he or she has a felony conviction involving illegal drugs.

 

(b) Submit photographic identification of both the qualifying patient and the patient's primary caregiver, if applicable. If the qualifying patient is under the age of 18 and does not have photographic identification, no photographic identification is required. Photocopies of the following shall be considered acceptable forms of identification:

 

(i) Current driver's license or identification card, with photo, issued by a state.

 

(ii) Identification card with photo issued by a federal, state, or government agency.

 

(iii) Current military identification card.

 

(iv) Current passport.

 

(v) Current student identification card with photo.

 

(vi) Native American tribal identification with photo

 

(vii) Permanent resident card or alien registration receipt card.

 

© Submit a written certification, as defined in R 333.101(22), signed by a licensed physician. If the qualifying patient is under the age of 18, written certifications from 2 physicians are required.

 

(d) If the qualifying patient is under the age of 18, submit a declaration of person responsible form.

Edited May 9, 2012 by AlternativeSolutionsPlus