Controversial Technique Increases Marijuana Yields... But At What Cost?

[mibrains]

this looks really really interesting...anyone try this out? or even heard of this before?

 

http://www.webwire.c....asp?aId=157551

 

Controversial Technique Increases Marijuana Yields... But At What Cost?

 

WEBWIRE – Wednesday, June 13, 2012

June 13, 2012, San Francisco, Ca - Medical marijuana is fast becoming a valuable cash crop as the plant known as Cannabis Sativa becomes accepted across the United States for medical uses like the treatment of cancer, AIDs, depression, anxiety, and many other ailments with few other effective treatments available. Medical Marijuana was recently legalized in the 17th state, Connecticut, and there are many more states with legislation in the works.

In response, more people are growing medical marijuana at home and there has been a subsequent demand for growing information and guides. While there is lots of published literature on how to grow marijuana on a mass scale, for example in the case of huge grow operations, there remains a huge information gap for small-scale indoor marijuana growers.

Considering that many states limit the amount of plants that a medical marijuana patient can have at once, many growers are looking for cheap ways to increase their yields without the need for more plants.

In response to this need, many long-time growers are coming out of hiding to share their experiments and secrets to producing higher yields, in some cases without the need for additional costs or equipment.

Long-time grower "Keef Treez" recently published a paper through GrowWeedEasy.com on the controversial marijuana growth control technique known as "defoliation" The paper, which showcases his 30 years of experience using this technique, claims to show growers how to obtain nearly a pound of processed buds from short, 3.5 feet tall plants that can easily fit in a closet, using standard 400-Watt HPS or LED grow lights.

Sirius Fourside, another experienced grower who co-founded GrowWeedEasy.com and has published several marijuana grow guides himself, stated about the paper, "If you want to produce these kinds of yields with lower-electricity lights and keep short, manageable plants, defoliation has to be at least a part of the equation"

Many growers refuse to try this simple and free technique out for themselves. Keef Treez claims he has shown up to grow conventions with extensive picture and physical evidence showing dramatic increases in yields with his technique, and still been booed off the stage by other growers who didn’t want to hear what he had to say.

Nebula Haze said, "It’s sad that so many misguided growers are wasting hundreds or even thousands of dollars on equipment and electricity to try to increase their marijuana yields when there are cheap and free ways that are so much more effective. Defoliation has been extensively tested and documented as a way to increase yields not just for marijuana but many other types of crops like chickpeas. Once I heard about this free technique and used it to obtain significant 30-40% increases in marijuana yields for myself (about 3-5 extra ounces harvested per plant using just defoliation), I knew I needed to get this information out to other patients with an open mind. People need to start looking at the evidence instead of just following old, outdated dogma"

 

 

follow up and info from link to paper on the technique

 

http://growweedeasy....iation-tutorial

 

(Experienced Growers Only) Controversial Defoliation Increases Marijuana Yields

 

 

by Keef Treez "The Defoliator"

Defoliation is an extreme marijuana growth technique. It's not to be done lightly.

In fact, the topic of defoliation is one of the most controversial subjects in the marijuana growing field. People on both sides defend their position vehemently.

I'm on the side that believe there is absolutely nothing stressful about defoliation or bending branches. Honestly, there is no way to achieve nearly a pound of buds from a 2-3 foot tall plant indoors, except using defoliation.

Opponents often have arguments like, "PLANTS NEED THOSE LEAVES! If they didn't, they wouldn't be there."

Or my all-time favorite, "I have a friend who used to grow, and he insists that will hurt the plant."

Yet the saddest part of all is how so few people are willing to look at the evidence.

In some ways, I almost would prefer the rest of the growing world keep up their ill-advised lollipopping, removing growing tips, and other low-yield techniques. The defoliation technique has been loudly condemned by "experienced" growers for decades. Nevertheless, I am determined to educate other growers about defoliating and let them see the results for themselves.

So let me start by giving you some picture proof that defoliation works (make sure you scroll down to see all of them!).

You see, I've been defoliating intensively for 30 years. I am now training plants to be 32" tall and 32" round and yielding 250-400 grams under 400 watt lamp.

Nebula Haze from GrowWeedEasy.com: Yes, that's right, he said 8-14 OUNCES of

buds of marijuana harvested off each short, easy-to-manage 32" tall plant, using

just a regular 400 watt HID grow light.

 

Here are two of my beauties (the one on the right needs a good plucking)

 

How-To Tutorial: The Controversial Technique of Defoliation

 

Despite all the evidence (I've posted hundreds of pictures and shown dozens of growers in person), there is still somehow so much skepticism about defoliation techniques. Growers, especially new growers, often just say variations of, "It's common sense, how could removing any part of the plant cause you to get higher yields?"

I recently attended an advanced seminar with a prominent fellow grower and got roundly booed when attempting to describe the defoliation technique, even with pictures showing dramatic benefits.

Unlike many other growers, I believe what's most important is studying how the plant actually grows, instead of assuming she grows how we think she should grow. Real experimentation and unbiased observers are the only way growers are going to learn how to get the best yields for the amount of time, money, and effort.

And it's true that some types of defoliation are brutal to the plants (such as when misguided growers removing all the leaves off extremely young marijuana plants), but other types of defoliation are actually hugely beneficial to increasing yields (I'll be showing you exactly what do do shortly).

And defoliation is beneficial for more than just marijuana, it also has been proven to increase yields for certain other types of crops. For example, it's well-known that cowpeas experience significant increases in yields when up to 50% of their leaves are defoliated during their flowering stage... (source)

This marijuana girl is 32" tall (the dimensions of this girl are 32"x32"x32" to be exact). She was intensely defoliated throughout her life.

And it's true that the real beauty of defoliation is difficult to translate in pictures and verbally.

But I will do my best to give you everything you need to start producing your own huge yields with marijuana defoliation.

But First, Let Me Show You About Increased Bud Production With Defoliation During the Flowering Stage

Before plucking

 

Immediately After Plucking

 

Just 4 days later, look at the incredible bud growth

 

Only 4 Days After That (after another defoliation session)

Are you beginning to see the power of defoliation?

How Early Do You Start Defoliating?

I first started defoliating in desperation after many years of SOG, which I feel has proven to be too much work for inconsistent yields. After much experimentation, I've found my yields have been more consistent when training a single plant to use this space instead of 4 or 9 or 25 SOG clones.

Never mind the fact that in many states, patients are limited to just a handful of plants, removing SoG as a viable option.

Most growers who are curious about this do not want to perform defoliation on small plants. They consider the practice in veg to be too radical. And I 100% agree that totally stripping your seedlings of all leaves will be devastating to their growth.

And the honest truth is that defoliation isn't for everyone. Beginners are often already dealing with the drawbacks to their choice of method or media, and defoliation can be disastrous to any but the healthiest of plants.

Because of this, I sometimes hesitate to throw defoliation into the mix of challenges for beginning growers and I strongly advise any growers to experiment with defoliation (or with any extreme growth control method) in the vegetative stage only where there is nothing at stake.

That being said, I believe the only reason you should allow a marijuana plant to leaf out completely is in an outdoor situation where you want as large a plant as possible. In that case you can save deleafing for mid to late summer after full-stretch and branching.

The way I practice this method (growing indoors) leaves never get a chance to age. No leaves are allowed more than about two weeks existence. I start at the top in order to remove the shading. Removing lower leaf contributes nothing to the strategy of exposing usually shaded out mid and lower growth to premium light. I still remove older shabby leaves to keep it all tidy.

And this is where defoliation gets controversial. Many growers feel that controlling their plant in any way during the vegetative stage will significantly reduce yields. And I understand how it can seem that way, especially to new growers, before you've gone through the entire life cycle of the marijuana plant a few times.

Experiments show, again and again, that large plants with intensively prepared structure during extended Veg cycle yield far more than untrained, smaller, force-flowered inpiduals.

Nebula Haze from GrowWeedEasy.com: I've also found this to be the case.

Small marijuana plants that are forced to flower when extremely young are

can be fun as an experiment, but produce pitiful yields. Investing more time

in the vegetative stage to gain girth, while controlling the shape and growth

of the plant, has dramatically increased yields for me.

 

The truth is, that with marijuana, the real 'secret sauce' to getting enormous yields is when you've perfectly prepared your plants for the flowering stage. As any grower knows, once you're deep into flowering, there isn't a whole lot you can do about huge, out-of-control plants except hold on, pray for the best, and do better next time.

I DO NOT lollipop and advice strongly against it. I use defoliation to skillfully and artfully prepare plants during the vegetative stage, so that lollipopping becomes completely unnecessary. I am on a mission to refocus growing technique to never remove ANY productive growth. I believe only leaves should be removed.

Ultimately, the defoliation technique is a huge tool in the grower's toolbox that allows you to dominate the Vegetative stage. Then it can be used in the Flowering stage to maximize yields.

Defoliation is the Big Secret to High-Yield, Compact Marijuana Plants

My style involves intensive defoliation along with the twist and train method (a version of supercropping) using a basic net for support.

I only top once, if at all, at the 5th or 6th node(approximately) depending on the height and structure of a given clone. I also deleaf them at this time. The only plants that get more topping than that are because they had clones taken from them. I don't usually keep dedicated mothers, instead, I just clone the clones and cycle everything through.

Here is a close-up of a veg clone getting it's second stripping.

Before

After

To get the best results, you should start defoliation in the vegetative stage. Leaf removal in bud is beneficial after stretch but most important to yields is management and the creation of a more compact plant with more budding sites in a given size.

Stripping and bending takes practice but you must do it to get practice. By starting in veg you risk no bud. Veg plants are replaceable so experiment and be ready to devote a little more time to prepare them.

I'd describe my stripping as "aggressive." Once your plant is trained to deal with defoliation, it's hard to go wrong. Plus, after years of experience, I've become very familiar with how these plants grow and always know what my outcome will be.

But defoliation doesn't end in the vegetative stage. I also continue to pull the fan leaves off of my flowering plants to expose the buds.

As far as when and how often, I don't get too scientific about it.

Usually if things look leafy, meaning that you see more leaf than budsites when viewing the crop, it may be time for another deleafing. It usually takes a week to 10 days for a plant to releaf to the point that there are 2-4 new leaves that have flattened and greened enough to deleaf again.

This repeated releafing process allows that lower growth to benefit from the maturing of the immediate leaf mass.

Leaf removal stimulates lower and mid bud growth by exposing those normally shaded out areas to premium light. Of course those new to the technique should start slow, but if you start too slow you won't remove enough leaf to see the best result.

You basically want to prevent any 'shade' from happening.

Here's an example of how I deleaf a girl who is 2 weeks into 12-12 (flowering)

Before

After

Notice how, you can now see light all the way through the plant. This is a good thing for light, as opposed to seeing nothing but leaves in the before pic.

Wait, did you say you wanted to see what kind of buds I get at the BOTTOM of the plant?

You get extensive bottom growth on defoliated plants

This is on the morning of harvest. While some are obsessed with top growth I like well developed bottoms. Tops are a given. If bottoms are this well developed the tops are certainly getting their share of light. Some guys like tops, some like bottoms. I like my girls to be equally well developed.

Ready to Get Started?

You can start easy and try to save leaves but what happens when you see the results like all the mid growth exploding with the new exposure. It would serve logic that if you remove a little and there is good results than remove more and on and on until you get comfortable with stripping down these girls.

I recommend you start deleafing as soon as your plants start looking 'bushy' at all. Start with removing the fans from all the branches and watch the results. Then remove progressively more. Don't remove any branches or sites if you want to commit to this method.

The idea is shade removal, NOT budsite removal. Allow them to releaf for a week or so and remove again when they look leafy.

This girl is 32"sq. and under 30" tall. She was thoroughly plucked continuously through her 11 week flowering cycle as well as during veg. No shortage of branches or buds, all of them chunky and exposed. I ended up harvesting 12 ounces off her. Marijuana plants do not get like this on their own. Stripping in veg and throughout bud is the only way to get results like this.

 

 

Answer to the 3 Most Common Questions About Marijuana Defoliation

1.) Which Leaves Can Be Plucked?

All of them.

That was the short answer.

I remove everything that is easily pinched off with the thumbnail and forefinger. I keep a little bit of a cutting tool for a thumbnail specifically for that purpose.

I don't try to get in super close to the buds once they get sticky unless it is just intolerably crowded. Any leaf that is attached by enough of a peristem to be plucked easily is fair game.

Bud leaves are attached deeper in the bud cluster and are difficult to remove by hand. I do not yank or pull down on the leaf. I snip it off with the thumbnail. Don't sweat the stubs that are left, they dry out and fall off. Best not to try to cut so close to the plant, especially in mold prone climates.

2.) Can Defoliation Be Used with Any Growing Medium?

Yes. Medium is not a factor. Go with what you like.

Defoliation works great for marijuana grown in soil, coco coir, perlite, vermiculite, DWC, bubbleponics, and any other growing medium that marijuana grows in.

3.) I've Never Defoliated and Now I'm Several Weeks into Flowering with Tall, BUSHY Out-of-Control Plants... Can I Still Start Defoliating?

If you've never defoliated before, go conservative to start, even if your plants look healthy.

Do it moderately at first and a little more daily. Pluck fan leaves to prevent branches from growing taller. During the flowering stage, you'll be able to see the increase in bud production.

 

So there you have it, a basic introduction to defoliation for huge yields. It's about time defoliation went mainstream!

View this full tutorial in its entirety: http://growweedeasy....iation-tutorial

 

About the Author:

Keef Treez "The Defoliator" has run several threads on ICMag.com, Overgrow, and CannabisWorld which continue to be very popular and controversial even years after they were created, receiving millions of hits. He is located in a beautiful high country area where he legally provides as a caregiver.

View his thread about defoliation on ICMag.com: http://www.icmag.com

[rhinoman]

Hey mibrains, Thats just silly.

[rhinoman]

proper pruning is essential for good bud growth. but to pull your fan leaves during flowering is just not right. its like driving your car 100 mph and yanking out the engine.

[Croppled1]

You obviously spent allot of time on this to help others . That is what this community is about . I always believed the plants cannabilized the leaves toward end of life for nutrients the buds required . By the last week of flower all my leaves are gone naturally anyways . I never considered this . I use a light vertically and above horizontally .

 

This article is very relevent if for no other reason it points how how severely regulation effects how our community conducts itself and the cost of production . This is a new concept to me but my main problem is lowering the costs of growing for myself that the low weight storage limits create as well as a inhabillity to keep a non interupted supply . Plant counts are cut and dry to follow but storage limits that are so limited are very difficult if not nearly impossible at times . They force individuals to have perpetual grows instead of growing 12 and storing with rest periods inbetween . They force individuals in court to decide on whether activities outside the cards limits are medical or not placing patients at risk . I think one of the hardest things for those not as dehabillitated as others who are patients to understand is how that effects them , their interaction with society and their needs to safely participate on the program . As patients we all know pushing ones activity past what one can tolerate or if deconditioned past conditioning can lead to death or injury .

 

I would be interested in your soil and nute regimen also which could lead to great yeilds in my mind . Did you ever grow side by side with one plant Natural and the other defiolated but all other variables the same ? .

Edited June 14, 2012 by Croppled1

[mrd]

Opinions are irrelevant. The question is does it work? People used to think that if you drove a car over 50mph people would die, they also believed that tomatoes are poisonous.

 

I just want everyone to know I have eaten tomatoes going over 50.... still kicking

[Herb Cannabis]

It goes against everything that I was taught, the shades are the major sugar factories feeding the plant. He mentions quantity, but not quality of medicine, I wonder about that.

 

I'm going to try it with one of my ladies and see what happens, it does make sense in a weird sort of way. I'll report back when I've finished my experiment.

[Mememe]

Makes sense to me as well, although I would not like to have to trim it.

[mibrains]

i decided to try a sample run myself.... it goes against all i have learned as well, but i read a bit into this and the concept seems solid, and the proof is defiantly in the pudding....

pictures don't lie...

 

sounds like an advanced technique so i will advise absolute caution for anyone trying it....

 

not that i know anything abut it lol

 

but i have wondered this for a while myself...and since my plants tend to use up fan leaves anyways..i will pluck all the ugly ones first...and do a super cleaning...basically and just trim more than usual...see what happens...

 

thank you everyone for the input..i defiantly am interested in this plant...

 

the "juice" inside from squeezing off the fan leaves smells so wonderful smeared all over my fingers.......i wonder how can i get the plant to pump it into a storage container...like a plant iv.... hooked in to draw off the "juice" the plant produces inside.... i mean plants are basically a huge straw.... drawing up moisture and fluids from the root base....

 

who knows...everyday i read new and interesting developments with this amazing plant...

 

imagine what could be learned if cannabis were to be rescheduled nationally?

[Kingdiamond]

I use this same technique not by my choice my veg lamp doesn't reach far down into the canopy so i end up with something that resembles a bouquet of flowers i use to get at most 1 1/2 ounces from BOGs sour bubble with my fluoros in veg now I'm consistently pulling 94 grams a plant ( 3 1/4) an increase of almost over 2 Oz's !

[MightyMightyMezz]

Haven't some of you guys ever noticed that buds that don't get much light generally do not fill out that well?

Edited June 14, 2012 by MightyMightyMezz

[mibrains]

i noticed mezz...

 

but i was taught that to remove fan leaves causes the plant stress and it then spends it's production time rebuilding the fan leaves instead of building the buds...it "want's" fan leaves ?

 

so i have always trained...or moved and tied the buds to achieve lower light....

 

this information / technique seems to be about...remove all the fan leaves and force the plant to feed off the buds...

or something like that..

it scares me..LOL

 

but i am a sucker for something new and interesting so i am intrigued...

 

i like "outside the box" ways of thinking and this person seems to be not only well educated, but experienced...

 

of course it could all be a hoax to get traffic to a particular site...

 

but it seems logical....leave the plant only bud sites...and what can it do...but grow them bigger every day...and produce everything for itself from them...

 

kinda like "rent control" LOL

 

hope you all are feeling some relief tonight....

 

peace and god bless

[Dman]

I love this. Long time technique you never here about. Science is everything, proving it works for yourself is priceless. I would love to try this with someone that is more experience in it than me. Leaves are over rated. lol

[Country Boy]

I usually do the same and have had good results. It has been said that every time you pinch you slow growth a few weeks. I just always wanted the lower branches to get more light. I don't know if it slows the growth that much as that is how I have always done it inside so I have nothing to compare it to. I am just getting back into this after a 20 year hiatus and am not sure of a lot of the newer techniques, but I have grown 5' Northen LightsXSkunk1 with 2"Buds over most of the plant.using a quite similar style. One of the first books on Mj Cultivation that I read back in the 70's had a chart telling what percentage of THC was in the Flowers, Leaves, Stem of a plant and decided I could live without leaves and their lowly 3% or whatever it was. Couple that with light saturation problems inside and I just always clipped the leaves in a few stages, but I just picked the largest for the most part. I pick leaves once a new branch site has formed and shows growth then I take off the shade leaf at that site. Like I said earlier it may slow growth time, but I never had a plant die from any trimming. I hate to baby anything and the thought of tying up plants does not appeal to me and that is why I try to replicate the outside as much as possible and outside growth usually can support itself so I expect my indoor growth to do the same. That is why I don't worry about a certain growth cycle, but one where I decide that the veg is large enough to support the size of Buds I desire. I have had 5' plants in my room that completely supported themselves. No Tying. Now that was in Rockwool so I don't know if I will be able to do that with DWC. I ask because Rockwool gave the roots some support where with DWC it loks as if the roots are kind of just hanging. I hope I have given someone some helpful info and thank you in advance for any info concering DWC plant support.

I will also own up to learning a Little about curing because as cheap as I am, I quick dried the leaves in the Microwave. Oh what a nasty Choraphyll taste. I am not saying I never quick dried again, but at least I knew that the slower it cured the better.

 

Thanks, CB

Edited June 15, 2012 by Country Boy

[Shredder]

I use my own version or something similar, but it depends a lot on the training before you even think about pinching, it's not just pinching. Although the author only talks like it's the pinching doing miracles, lol. First for removing leaves to make sense, your canopy should be a fairly even mat of green that chokes off light below. Leaves are on the plant for a reason, the reason is photosynthesis. Sunlight is converted to plant energy (plant sugars) so for this to make sense, it should happen in flower. The plant should be strong and healthy for this to work well, and scrog grows would make more sense for this method. I believe in some plants this may work to flower quickly from the stress, like the plant thinking the end is near. You see this in dandelions flowering after the plant was pulled, it's a stress response. I do this around week three, and just enough to allow light to hit all the bud sites. Some varieties work better than others, train wreck is one that does well, and mixed sativas and indicas can make for more difficulties, because it is so hard to keep an even canopy with different stretch rates. Another little trick I sometime use is to harvest top buds and let the under buds mature in the light that opens for them. Bubba takes to this kind of harvest pretty well........shredder

 

 

 

 

 

[Celliach]

I wonder how well a non-plucked plant would have done growing right next to the plucked plant. It might have actually worked better to not pluck them, we can't tell from this experiment if there isn't a control plant to compare the experimental plant to.

[Darkmatter]

It goes against everything that I was taught, the shades are the major sugar factories feeding the plant. He mentions quantity, but not quality of medicine, I wonder about that.

 

I'm going to try it with one of my ladies and see what happens, it does make sense in a weird sort of way. I'll report back when I've finished my experiment.

 

This ^

 

Sorry but the plants in those pics look like hell to me. My thoughts are telling me that your nutrients have to go somewhere, if there are no leaves would they not go to the flowers?

I may just try this though just to put the issue to rest (at least in my mind.) I have 2 identical plants that are the same age right now. Would be a perfect time to give it a go...

 

Done deal. Going to pluck some leaves today in the name of science. I will leave the other one alone as a control.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Darkmatter

[rhinoman]

Hey All, Three things to max your yields are

#1. the most amount of light you can afford

#2 the max amount of Nutes your plant can handle

#3 room to grow (above and below the soil)

[Shredder]

Hey All, Three things to max your yields are

#1. the most amount of light you can afford

#2 the max amount of Nutes your plant can handle

#3 room to grow (above and below the soil)

 

I'd say to make the best environment you can make, with space, air flow, and temps under control

Use high quality compost and or ewc

Give the plant plenty of organic food choices and fresh water

And then a lot of light

[rhinoman]

I'd say to make the best environment you can make, with space, air flow, and temps under control

Use high quality compost and or ewc

Give the plant plenty of organic food choices and fresh water

And then a lot of light

Yeah Shedder enviroment is importent. form follows function stick with simple rules and the rest falls in place.

[pic book]

observations

1) The plants in pics appear to have been topped or, they may just be a strain that w/o topping develops multiple stems (several naturally occurring principal stems) (such as skunk #1, blueberry, ig13, moab and almost the entire lineup of Medipharm Seeds). Pics definitely are not an untopped single-cola strain.

2) The profusion of tubes running everywhere is not addressed.

3) Defoliation runs counter to the 3 primary cannabis authors (Cervantes, Clarke, Rosenthal) who say don't remove leaves til late in flowering as they are the photosyn factories.

4) Remember DoubledD's 42 pounds from 10 plants under 20k watts that no one has been able to replicate.

6) As mrd said, if it works in cannabis, what the published authorities say does not matter. I would add that if it works, non-defoliation will be revealed as irresponsible authors racing each other to present an unfounded assumption as fact.

7) Keep your eyes on the side-by-side advertised above.

8) If defoliation proves to work, and was combined with LongHairBry's hydro lay-out, would the yield be 2 pounds from a 32-inch plant and a 400-watt bulb?

Edited June 18, 2012 by pic book

[mibrains]

the day after i posted this i sent a request to the website i found the link about and requested the author come and address some of our questions....

 

and have gotten a response from the sites admin yesterday... they forwarded the link and are interested in helping answer our questions....

 

so maybe the author has much better insight than me on this topic...

 

it seems absolutely counter intuitive and against everything i know...but then i ask...what do i really know.... so...i listen.....

and wait

 

peace and god bless

 

but...pic that would be awesome if a person could achieve those results... absolutely doubtful...but awesome none the less...

[phaquetoo]

Hey John Thank you for the post! got a few pics to share, I know I had one hell of a time with dwc, but I have always de-foiled my plants been yrs, but now this one is at 8 wks in budd wend, it is raspberry cough, I had a few issues with her when I got her from my c.g, It was a mother plant, And I have to say she was one of the most beautys ive seen in a while,,,this is the 4th plant he has given me, that was ready to go into bud, we messed up and transplanted the first 3 from pro mix to dwc, which is what I thought I was going to run! lmao, dead all 3, they all went down one rite after another, nothing to use. well i did get some oil as they were 6 wks into bud and full of dust, so I figured what the hey! I was worth it to me as I have my oil extraction method down as to not waiste any butane!

 

I took about a 12 yr break from growing and started back up a few months ago, the pics im hoping to show are of when i got the plant and pics from this morning after reading your thread! to each his own eh?

 

my water is bad, so I finaly figured out what my problems are, but im switching over to promix and just going with what i know how to do, I have a friend, (god as my witness i have a friend bawahahaha) he only uses one room and a few plants, he is using flourescents (yea to slow for me) he cuts all the budds off of the plant, throws it back into 20 hr veg and regrows the same plant, he has been on the same plant now for 4 crops, I cow pucky you not! I have always cut my fan leaves off around 6 wks into budd or sooner, ive always messed with plants in veg, it is the only way to learn, this plant should be done in well im hoping for maybe 2 more weeks, it is suppose to be an 8 to 10 wk budding plant, Im pretty sure it will be done in the 10 wk period, i water her every 5 days till nutes and water come out of the bottom, I put 3 in and suck about 1/2 a gallon out of the pan, I dont let the over flow sit in there, as said my water is bad, I put it in at rite around 770ppm and 6ph it comes out at 1500ppms and oh some where in the 5 ph preferably 5.7ph!

 

The reason I took her out side after 2 wks in bud, is (water issues) so I put 20 gallons of r.o thru her, she was at 3500 ppms and unreadle low ph! After 2o gals of water I got her back under 1000 ppms and could only get her to 5 ph, I was afraid to give her any more water! no longer though, that promix drains out like nothing ive ever used! I will try and post pics in the next week or two of the progress on this lil beauty!

 

[pavelkiffer]

Excellant topic and worth experimenting. I like the openness by the author and will be doing some side by side comparisons with my jack the ripper strain :-) Thanks for sharing this info!

[tricloud]

I'll leave my leaves on my plants. I've tried this hippie method from way back, back when. Side by side tests showed me that plants with leaves left intact grew bigger and produced better than plants that were defoliated. I think it was an excuse to smoke leaves when there was nothing else to smoke. Now days I think growers remove leaves because their plants have unhealthy looking leaves and they want to make their plants look better for internet pictures.

 

How can removing leaves improve the photosynthesis process? Nutrients can't feed a plant on their own, they need leaves to assist in the process.

[Shredder]

I'll leave my leaves on my plants. I've tried this hippie method from way back, back when. Side by side tests showed me that plants with leaves left intact grew bigger and produced better than plants that were defoliated. I think it was an excuse to smoke leaves when there was nothing else to smoke. Now days I think growers remove leaves because their plants have unhealthy looking leaves and they want to make their plants look better for internet pictures.

 

How can removing leaves improve the photosynthesis process? Nutrients can't feed a plant on their own, they need leaves to assist in the process.

 

I mostly agree with you Tricloud, but it does have it's place. I think like I said earlier people forget that for defoliating to make sense, your grow should be a green mat at the canopy that does not let light through, like what sometimes happens in a scrog. The leafs i mostly remove are going to yellow and fall off anyway. I also remove the lowest bud sites to let plants concentrate on the top buds.Then defoliating is doing something, letting light hit lower buds helping them to mature. Your plants should already be healthy plants, and if a fan leaf is not blocking a bud site, leave it alone.

 

Don't ask me where, but I read a study that looked at just where the bio mass of plants come from. They weighed the soil, seed and everything in laboratory conditions, before and after a grow. As it turns out most of the mass of plants (minus water) comes from the air, not the soil as I would have thought. And the plant's factory that makes that happen is the leaves......shredder