Controversial Technique Increases Marijuana Yields... But At What Cost?

[MightyMightyMezz]

I tuck larger leaves out of the way of bud sites, but there is a motto I go by: If you can't tuck it, fukit. If a leaf is giving inordinate shade and can't be neatly tucked out of the way of the buds, it's gone. Buds do like direct light and if your plant has a fast enough growth rate to cover what you have taken off it will benefit. Notice this guy's leaves grow back even during flower. If your growth rate is not as fast as this grower's DWC, defoliate less aggressively. More light to the bud sites! It's a good thing.

[pic book]

God I love his site.

[tricloud]

Yeah Shredder and Mez I agree about removing a few leaves for air flow and leaves that are turning yellow anyway.. That's not defoliation imo it's more of a mold prevention technique.

[phaquetoo]

It does make a difference in certain strains, and yep this one def had issues as I said above, But I have always removed many of the top fan leaves, but usualy not untill a week or two before crop time, 10 days of nice lite to them bottom budds will make them just swell right up, all of my leaves will be bho, no reason for the hippie bunny muffin here, I had been trying to keep this plant looking good, and when you have oh god 50 bad leafs on it, I cant just leave them, They will not fix themselves, and if you notice when you have an issue like I was having all of them leaves have nice green stems rite upto where the leaf starts, no need to send any nutes/water to that leaf! unfortunatly I had many, left it as long as I could, I believe the cloraphorm from the fan leaves is very important, so no need to cut any near the bottom unless they are injured/dying/blocking lite.

 

Alot of great pointes made! Well we only have a few wks left I will try and throw a pic up at least once a week till its crop time!

 

Peace

Jim

[rhinoman]

Hey Phaquetoo, ya got that hillbilly grow back up and runnin i see. take care man.

[MightyMightyMezz]

Yeah Shredder and Mez I agree about removing a few leaves for air flow and leaves that are turning yellow anyway.. That's not defoliation imo it's more of a mold prevention technique.

 

Did I say something about that? Nope, only about pinching fan leaves that shade bud sites too much.

[phaquetoo]

Hey Phaquetoo, ya got that hillbilly grow back up and runnin i see. take care man.

 

oh that is funny, just happen to have a few of them pics available lmao, hey I cut mine down before leo came around,,lil step son phagget got to em too!

 

 

 

Look even has a lock and the poles are at least 2 1/2 in the ground! thats legal isnt it? bawahahahahaha!

not bad for bag weed, pp, beer, one gallon a water a wk and vodka eh! shoot wish i could of seen it thru, but well heck I kinda know better!

 

Thanks for the mammorys!

 

Peace

Jim

 

wow it does look like it minus the chicken mesh and poles, only difference is there is 12 in the hill billy and one in the one I saved and hacked all the leaves off of lol

Edited June 18, 2012 by phaquetoo

[phaquetoo]

if ya read my first post in here you would have known I pumped like 20 gallons of water thru that baby, I couldnt do it in my tent, I started doin dwc, shoot all i had was bubblers, stones, totes ,buckets and well heck you know,(shoot my turkey baster is in the pick, thats my pump lol) I wasnt even doing an ebb n flow or nothing, shoot with my water not being right here, Im ready to test my pp, I heard its considered r.o! bawahahahahahaha gotta be better than my well/septic water!

 

Peace

Jim

[canoe42]

I told my husband about this method because he has a horticulture background. He said the leaves need the light, not the buds.. So I have 2 thoughts-

1) Maybe it's getting more light to the bottom leaves creating mature buds in the lower part of the plant.

 

2) He also said that a stressed plant or tree will create more buds or seeds to keep procreating. So I guess it could be a combo of both.

 

I do know that I had a couple of stressed plants once that most of the leaves yellowed and I was very worried I would lose them. But I ended up with my biggest yield from those 2 plants.

 

This might be worth doing on a small scale to get the light to the bottom of the plant.

[pergamum362]

I do this to an extent.remove larger leaves from the top so leaves/buds get more light on the bottom...buds need light too..there are leaves on the buds or am I the only one who has to trim leaf from the bud?keep in mind it looks like he also puts alot of effort into veg ,establishing a nice frame.I believe the stress caused wld have a bit to do with the swell..isn't that pretty much what products like gravity do,give the pant a certain kind of stress to promote a certain kind of growth.I've never removed leaves to the extend he has,but tomorrow I have two Larry ogs in 4th week of flower,almost identical..I'm gona strip one.They usually give me 4-7 zips,and take up about 4 square feet or a tomato cage.

[Shredder]

isn't that pretty much what products like gravity do,give the pant a certain kind of stress to promote a certain kind of growth

 

Well.....no it isn't. Gravity works because of a synthetic, and possibly cancer causing, hormone that alters the plant's natural growth. In humans it might be compared with meth over normal stress like taxes........shredder

[Shredder]

He said the leaves need the light, not the buds..

 

Actually the whole plant needs light. Flowers need light to mature. Look at lower buds that did not get good light. They just don't mature like buds in proper light. The leaves are the factories that the plants rely on for growth and vigor. The buds are the factories the plants need for reproduction, (and what we rely on), each needs the other. Can't have one without the other.......shredder

[phaquetoo]

I do this to an extent.remove larger leaves from the top so leaves/buds get more light on the bottom...buds need light too..there are leaves on the buds or am I the only one who has to trim leaf from the bud?keep in mind it looks like he also puts alot of effort into veg ,establishing a nice frame.I believe the stress caused wld have a bit to do with the swell..isn't that pretty much what products like gravity do,give the pant a certain kind of stress to promote a certain kind of growth.I've never removed leaves to the extend he has,but tomorrow I have two Larry ogs in 4th week of flower,almost identical..I'm gona strip one.They usually give me 4-7 zips,and take up about 4 square feet or a tomato cage.

 

 

lol nope man I forgot to strip them leaves, lol, yea my thinking excactly, im at most 2 wks out of crop, my plant dont seem to stress much. on this one im doing I felt I had nothing to lose, more budds I can get to chunk up the better, we shall see!

 

how many weeks does larry ogs usualy take in budd?

 

Good Luck, Hope to see some pics!

 

Peace

Jim

Edited June 19, 2012 by phaquetoo

[rhinoman]

Hey phaque, should be between 8 and 10 weeks.

[pergamum362]

Usually right around ten weeks.ill post sum pre defoliants picks probably tonight on this thread.

[mibrains]

i am loving this discussion....

 

thank you everyone for contributing your ideas, experiences, and thoughts on this process.....

 

i think it is an excellent opportunity to try new ideas and techniques across a wide range of caregivers with different growing experiences and systems and get a much better and more well rounded idea of the results.

 

i am not sure on this idea yet....

but i have a perfect pair of test plants coming into rotation so it's a good time to try it out i suppose...

 

it seems to me that while the plant has the fan leaves for maximum production in nature...in a controlled environment it does actually kinda make some sense to restrict the photosynthesis to the leaves on the buds, and force the plant to produce energy for itself from those sites to survive...without the fan leaves it must use the bud leaves...to grow and survive

thereby growing those larger to compensate for the loss of primary photosynthesis production....

 

not sure on the science behind this yet, but the hypothesis seems rational...

 

it goes against the natural ideas behind plant growth...

 

so now we test for consistent results....and see for ourselves...

 

peace and god bless

 

stay cool everyone gonna be hot today...

[Shredder]

it goes against the natural ideas behind plant growth...

 

Your right about that John. And remember just growing indoors with artificial light is unnatural too. Defoliating is a specialised method that might not be right for every situation. Removing leaves is stressful to the plants, no doubt about that. So it would not be a good idea to do it at a stressful time, like at transplant or at the start of 12/12. Or even in this heat, as that is stress too. A side by side might be cool, but if your not growing in a scrog or don't have light penetration problems, I don't see the point. The first time i seen this it was trainwreck and the plants responded surprisingly well, but i have seen others that did not do well, so it may be somewhat strain dependant......shredder

[restlesslegs]

it goes against the natural ideas behind plant growth...

 

Your right about that John. And remember just growing indoors with artificial light is unnatural too. Defoliating is a specialised method that might not be right for every situation. Removing leaves is stressful to the plants, no doubt about that. So it would not be a good idea to do it at a stressful time, like at transplant or at the start of 12/12. Or even in this heat, as that is stress too. A side by side might be cool, but if your not growing in a scrog or don't have light penetration problems, I don't see the point. The first time i seen this it was trainwreck and the plants responded surprisingly well, but i have seen others that did not do well, so it may be somewhat strain dependant......shredder

 

Would you suggest doing this with trainwreck then Shredder? I have her and she can be a monster.

[phaquetoo]

i am loving this discussion....

 

thank you everyone for contributing your ideas, experiences, and thoughts on this process.....

 

i think it is an excellent opportunity to try new ideas and techniques across a wide range of caregivers with different growing experiences and systems and get a much better and more well rounded idea of the results.

 

i am not sure on this idea yet....

but i have a perfect pair of test plants coming into rotation so it's a good time to try it out i suppose...

 

it seems to me that while the plant has the fan leaves for maximum production in nature...in a controlled environment it does actually kinda make some sense to restrict the photosynthesis to the leaves on the buds, and force the plant to produce energy for itself from those sites to survive...without the fan leaves it must use the bud leaves...to grow and survive

thereby growing those larger to compensate for the loss of primary photosynthesis production....

 

not sure on the science behind this yet, but the hypothesis seems rational...

 

it goes against the natural ideas behind plant growth...

 

so now we test for consistent results....and see for ourselves...

 

peace and god bless

 

stay cool everyone gonna be hot today...

 

Like I said before, an exellent thread thank you! I would not try it for the 1st time until you were real close to the crop time (2 to 3 wks) I did mine at 3 days befroe 8 wks, but, because of issues I was having, (i killed my first 3 plants and my c.g gives em to me after he veggs them) kinda kewl, but not, so the 4th one he gave me was a mother he had growing prob for a yr! but he is so techie and geekie, (i now have no probs with you geeky guys it does frickin take rocket science for some of the ways we have to grow) Im enjoying this alot, I will try dwc again, but for now I have to go back 12 yrs, and im good with that,,You now how it is, you ask 20 people the same question and your gonna get 20 diff answers! and thats kewl, because I realy believe the people who give advise, it works for them, it may not work for you though, its not like most are saying well what are you using for ventilation, (shoot i started as cheap and economical as i could) and you know what they say you get what you pay for! lol!

 

Im looking forward to posting another pic a wk from the last one after defoilage (i love that word) and no doubt my lower buds are thickening and producing the same leaves im gonna pic off again, Im hoping to get 10 more days out of this raspberry cough, 8 to ten wk budd! Ive prob slowed it down when I doused it to get the ppm back down and the ph! but even that day I clipped no less then 50 bad leafs all at the top of the plant, the bottom of the plant always seemed healthy! oh well live and learn, guess im gonna invest in r.o and a better inline fan, another hood and socket, frick the t-5's I have two of em, one 4 bulb 4ft and 1.....2 bulb 2ft, gonna keep em around for clones and seedlings, but totaly going with 600 hps both in veg and bud! I dont have time for this crap, hopefuly switching over to what I knew will stop the unesicarry killing of this beautiful wonderful plant

 

Thank you Mibrains for the interesting article, oh yea i been bending the stems also, I think its just fricking jamming, it thinks it is dying, it is sending all it can to the budds to reproduce, nature at its best in something smaller than most ice shannys, wow only in america, and im legal and so within my limits!

 

Peace

Jim

[mibrains]

hey Jim...

 

man it's really good to hear from u bud..

 

what are you doing in the house and not out camping? lol

 

glad to hear ya got the garden makin some yum yums for your misses...

 

it's too dam hot out there for me right now...

 

crazy this Michigan weather..gotta love it...

 

 

[mibrains]

it goes against the natural ideas behind plant growth...

 

Your right about that John. And remember just growing indoors with artificial light is unnatural too. Defoliating is a specialised method that might not be right for every situation. Removing leaves is stressful to the plants, no doubt about that. So it would not be a good idea to do it at a stressful time, like at transplant or at the start of 12/12. Or even in this heat, as that is stress too. A side by side might be cool, but if your not growing in a scrog or don't have light penetration problems, I don't see the point. The first time i seen this it was trainwreck and the plants responded surprisingly well, but i have seen others that did not do well, so it may be somewhat strain dependant......shredder

 

for sure....

however it's such a unique plant i wouldn't be surprised if it didn't respond very well to this type of "fixed" grow technique....

at least in some cases....

i am no scientist i struggle with the sativas still to this day.....

 

it's probably all hype anyways like so many of the claims out there...

to be honest and real your method of full organic, natural as possible growth and feeding is probably if not arguably the best method of medical quality.

full organic as mother nature intended is most likely going to be the gold standard when the rules all change and everyone is able to grow their own meds....

oh wait.. we already can..LOL

thank you god.

[phaquetoo]

ok only been 5 days but the bottom buds are going awsome!

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will be putting a pic at least once a week I may even cut the branches off when it is crop time but leave the bottom buds on while I wait on my next plant! I truly believe and can see it is working, I may have slowed up the top cola's a lil, but you can hardly tell, they are still producing budds and thickening! I put this one in survival mode, she is doing all she can to reproduce and get them budds bigger! pretty fun to watch!

 

Peace

Jim

[pergamum362]

Trying to figure out how to post a pic from my phone..? Help?...tablet and laptop are history.

[phaquetoo]

wed is wk 9, prob gonna have to crop it this weekend! dont know if you can see the difference, but I sure can, and most def will continue to do this, I will prob start at like wk 6 next time!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peace

Jim

[phaquetoo]

ok only been 5 days but the bottom buds are going awsome!

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will be putting a pic at least once a week I may even cut the branches off when it is crop time but leave the bottom buds on while I wait on my next plant! I truly believe and can see it is working, I may have slowed up the top cola's a lil, but you can hardly tell, they are still producing budds and thickening! I put this one in survival mode, she is doing all she can to reproduce and get them budds bigger! pretty fun to watch!

 

Peace

Jim

wed is wk 9, prob gonna have to crop it this weekend! dont know if you can see the difference, but I sure can, and most def will continue to do this, I will prob start at like wk 6 next time!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peace

Jim

 

ok all in same post hope you can see the dif, I know I can, them bottoms are like blasting, since I have a lil bit of time, I just may cut most of the budds off that are ready to be cropped and leave the bottom go a lil longer, I figure worst thing can happen is they die and i mix it in with the sugar leaves im gonna be making bho with!

 

Peace

Jim