Children Are Kidnapped And Held For Ransom In Michigan

[Nemosity]

You have to realize the long and torn history of our cannabis plant; which goes by many names including the Holy Spirit. (Coincidentally enough; all three major religions have this Holy Spirit; in Islam it's actual translation means to breath) In Christianity they make the sign of the cross; Father, Son and Holy Spirit; oddly enough Holy Spirit is echoed on cadence with touching both tops of the lungs. And let's not forget Jesus himself was conceived with the Holy Spirit; which was before Christianity even existed. And let's not forget father Abraham with his burning bush that told him to go and free his people from bondage. It's then, no wonder why PB is so passionate about this sacred herb; and rightfully so.

[peanutbutter]

This is pure state manipulation.

[ozzrokk]

One is too many... enough said.

[TheHarvester]

For those with legal expertise, what advice would you give patients in regards to ways to protect against this happening on the front end. Is there a way to set up relatives to care for children in the case of CPS intervention? If CPS does take the children in a situation like this, what is the best legal maneuvering a patient should make?

[CaveatLector]

For those with legal expertise, what advice would you give patients in regards to ways to protect against this happening on the front end. Is there a way to set up relatives to care for children in the case of CPS intervention? If CPS does take the children in a situation like this, what is the best legal maneuvering a patient should make?

Generally speaking state policy IS to try and place children with relatives rather than non-related foster care.

[TheHarvester]

Generally speaking state policy IS to try and place children with relatives rather than non-related foster care.

 

For a patient with concerns about this issue, what are the best things they can have in place in case something like this does happen? What immediate resources would they have? Are there any resources someone could access that would be available to people in low income situations.

[SFC]

#1: Don't make yourself a target.

 

From my perspective things are getting better for us everyday in our state, If LEO and CPS were really "out to get us" they would be getting us by the scores. We are not that hard to find these days.

[CaveatLector]

Stop justifying these activities by the state.

 

Using their own children as leverage against patients and caregivers is monstrous. Pure evil. The resulting damage to the children is massive.

This boarders on human sacrifice. These tactics are pure torture.

 

Please stop defending these actions.

 

Your main objective should be to protect the children, instead of trying to make me look bad.

How about you cut and paste any "defense" I have made on the part of the state? Are you kidding me? You read things that aren't there. You jump to conclusions, just like the title of this thread.

 

Why don't you stop exaggerating things to extreme clown-like extents? You say the state wants our kids hooked on heroin. You say the state is kidnapping kids and holding them for ransom. You say the state is engaging in borderline human sacrifice. You recommend everyone get a script for marinol because you THINK it will make it okay for them to drive. You post that the US house has rescheduled marijuana. You come up with some deranged theory about people getting radiation poisoning at Disney. You publicly offer to drive around state reps while you are high. Shall I go on? Because I can!

 

There is no need for ME to make you look bad because you do that all by yourself. Did you see that poster ad you posted yesterday? Does that make you look good? If you're worried about how you look then I suggest you take a long look at what you do rather than jump people who point out what you do.

 

How about this--how about you show me your source for claiming that kids were taken away in the case you linked to in your first post here? You're a good one for fear mongering and then whining when you're called out for it.

[CaveatLector]

For a patient with concerns about this issue, what are the best things they can have in place in case something like this does happen? What immediate resources would they have? Are there any resources someone could access that would be available to people in low income situations.

www.michiganlegalaid.org Edited October 10, 2012 by CaveatLector

[peanutbutter]

#1: Don't make yourself a target.

 

From my perspective things are getting better for us everyday in our state, If LEO and CPS were really "out to get us" they would be getting us by the scores. We are not that hard to find these days.

 

This isn't the policy across the entire state. Only in a few areas.

 

This is highly abusive and needs to be stopped.

 

The policy of testing for THC in newborns needs to stop also. OR if the mother is a registered patient, it needs to be allowed.

[CaveatLector]

This isn't the policy across the entire state. Only in a few areas.

 

This is highly abusive and needs to be stopped.

 

The policy of testing for THC in newborns needs to stop also. OR if the mother is a registered patient, it needs to be allowed.

Whose policy is this? And where is there a case in MI of a parent losing a child because the infant tested positive for thc at birth?

[GanjaWarrior]

I find the sensationalistic manner in which this topic is presented is over-the-top. I find THAT rude. How about you explain to us how the title of this thread ISN'T peanut trying to be dramatic? I call a spade a spade. You don't like it then crawl back under your covers with the latest copy of Conspiracyweek.

 

if you dont find it to be a big issue fine...push on, shut your mouth and let those that care discuss it. If you had a child and found yourself in that situation i bet you would find it a big deal, or id like to think you would...

[CaveatLector]

if you dont find it to be a big issue fine...push on, shut your mouth and let those that care discuss it. If you had a child and found yourself in that situation i bet you would find it a big deal, or id like to think you would...

I take it reading comprehension isn't your strong suit? I suggest you review the thread and then review your response above.

[Q-Berry]

Back on topic and enough with the badgering of members.

[CaveatLector]

Thank you. Oh, what was the topic again? Oh yes, the state kidnapping children and holding them for ransom.

[Celliach]

All I know is when I first read the title of the thread, I thought it was about some kids that were actually kidnapped by someone and were in danger. I honestly thought it was about helping keep an eye out for some particular kids. Amber alert kinda thing. I do have to agree that the title is misleading and a bit sensationalist. It probably should have been titled something like: State Has Policy of Using CPS Against MMJ Patients, or something similar. (That is illegal according to the law.) That being said, we are discussing a real problem here.

[SFC]

Who is doing the badgering? The guy telling people to "shut their mouth" or the guys keeping it real?

[Michael Komorn]

If one child is removed from the home for 1 minute or 1 hour because of the choice of the parent to use medical cannabis to treat their condition, it is one too many. I have been involved with several cases; where for no reason other than the parents were charged with a crime, based upon a technical violation that resulted in an investigation by cps. In late 2009 and early 2010, I had concluded this was merely a tactic by leo to put pressure on the family, force them to go through an investigation, open up there life, house, and intimate details of how they choose to live, merely to justify their parenting, as a medical marihuana patient. None of the cases involved allegations of the children’s welfare, but instead the investigation was based merely upon criminal charges being filed. My impression at that time was that cps had way too many other files that were serious and needed attention. Also my impression was that the cps workers who were investigating complaints (something they are required to do) usually found no evidence of neglect and closed out the file, uttering words to the accused parents that someone from the police is after them. My concerns at that time were minimal, but have changed recently. Thomas Lavigne has spoken about a number of cases he is involved in ( on planet green trees) that would make any sensible person concerned with the way in which these agencies are putting pressure on the parents, holding hearings, removing, restricting or eliminating custody and or visitation. When I initially read the headline from the article and discussed it with an associate in my office, even he was distressed about the allegations of child abuse. But the information I have received indicates that the only odd behavior justifying the charges is the fact that they were patients and caregivers and interacting with other patients and or caregivers.

This is an issue, and the state/cps/leo/employers are using parenting and medical marihuana as a way to discourage, scare and impact patients or caregivers who are parents. The terms used by pb are sensational, but so is the reporting of newspaper, but worse yet the charges filed against the accused.

At the end of the day, this is a real issue, and as a community there needs to be awareness that as ridiculous as it sounds, being a patient and or caregiver can create liability in general, but also with parenting rights. Can we all agree that this is wrong?

With the limited information, and education provided to cps about what a medical marihuana house would or should look like, there remains an undercurrent of subjective interpretation, during a time when many of the traditional state agencies such as drug testing and cps are operating blindly. Similar to LEO, these institutions have been operating for 80 years under the belief that cannabis is bad, and this has not changed. The law changed, but nothing has been done to change the way these institutions deal with the issues associated with the law change. Unfortunately as we see every day, and get calls from all over the state, the victims during this paradigm change are the patients and caregivers, in one way or another. Said another way, wake up, this is a real issue, and there are parents and worse yet children that are being effected every day by this ongoing intended obstruction of the rights and protections afforded patients and caregivers.

May I suggest this thread should transform into suggestions of how a parent caregiver or patient can talk to their children about medical cannabis, prepare for the worst case scenario- investigation by cps, and takes steps to limit liabilities should that situation come about.

[peanutbutter]

I would also suggest that when people talk to their lawmakers , they make the rep or senator aware of this abuse.

 

The true danger to the children is the system. The system inflicts trauma upon the children that will last a lifetime.

 

There is substantially more risk to the child if the parents are consumers of alcohol or cigarettes.

Edited October 10, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Fat Freddy]

Well said Michael,

From my perspective I find it difficult to make suggestions that cps could not twist.

My thoughts are we need to use some of the funding that Lara has to educate cps workers on the uses and benefits of medical marijuana.

Seeing that they may be under the dept of health. Too me this would be a positive use of some of the available funding via lara.

[GanjaWarrior]

Who is doing the badgering? The guy telling people to "shut their mouth" or the guys keeping it real?

 

your bias stops your from seeing it...so just keep that "real" at your site and the disrespect wont be felt here....

[peanutbutter]

Messing with people's kids over marijuana is unacceptable to the voters. That is why it was written in the law.

 

The state needs to comply.

 

The state needs to obey the law.

[t-pain]

Whose policy is this? And where is there a case in MI of a parent losing a child because the infant tested positive for thc at birth?

 

testing newborns for thc is a national issue. it occurs everywhere.

 

a big thing recently discovered was some baby shampoo giving false positive tests

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/chemicals-common-shampoos-soaps-lead-false-thc-results/story?id=16612794

 

Spangler cited mothers who had been arrested based on tests of their babies, but insisted that they had never smoked marijuana.

 

here is the story of the michigan man who WAS SHOT DEAD by a police officer who accompanied a CPS OFFICER who was trying to take the child.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/2012/mar/24/michigan_father_killed_marijuana

 

The attempted removal of the minor child came after a police officer who came to the scene on a call earlier that same day reported that he smelled marijuana and reported the incident to CPS authorities, who decided the child needed to be removed.

 

The court order gave the following reason for removing the child: "There are reasonable grounds for this court to remove the child(ren) from the parent... because conditions or surroundings of the child(ren), and is contrary to the welfare of the child(ren) to remain in the home because: It is alleged that the father used marijuana in the home in the presence of the child. In addition, there is concern for the safety of the child due to a domestic disturbance and threats made toward law enforcement by the father."

 

Toxicology reports, which were included in the final investigation, showed there was no marijuana or alcohol in Reddie's system when he was killed.

 

not even drug test or physical EVIDENCE of marijuana and CPS took the kid.

[SFC]

Like I said, Any one event like this is terrible. One is too many, but taking a sensationalist approach will not get the job done. Point out that it has happened and the case above is a good case in point, although it wasn't strictly over MMJ, that will be a reps counter point.

 

Obviously some counties will be worse than others and require more of our attention.

 

Zap, you know I am not a fan of banning but the ganja warrior cat is not bringing anything positive or rational to any discussion he has participated in, not one.

[t-pain]

doing some searches...

 

http://forums.webmd.com/3/pregnancy-third-trimester-exchange/forum/4861

 

LilBlondeRNBSN responded:

I am a registered nurse & although I have worked in trauma for the past year & a half, I started my career working as a L&D nurse at a major urban hospital. Although I cannot speak for Texas, I know for a fact that here in Michigan they *can* and *will* perform drug testing on *any* woman who is suspected of using drugs during her pregnancy, as well as her infant--no exceptions. I have wittnessed this scenario first-hand on several occasions!!! One particular time, a patient's friend was overheard by a nurse making a comment about the woman smoking weed while she was pregnant. That is all it took for social work to get involved & the woman *and* her infant were immediately tested for drugs--right there on the spot (a mere hour or 2 after the infant was born). It is very sad to see a baby taken from it's mother over something that seems so minor... but legally speaking, drugs are drugs, and whether you are smoking a little weed or injecting a "hard drug" like heroin, they don't care--it is all the same to them. And generally speaking...it is all unacceptable in the eyes of the legal system... Best to try & stay clean--at the very least during the month leading up to your delivery. Better safe than sorry.

 

 

heres a michigan father whos 5 yo was taken:

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/33466-muskegon-county-child-protective-services-removes-five-year-old-from-school/

 

not sure if i can find a newborn baby test fail , but i'm sure there have been incidents.