What Must We Do To Get Decriminalization On 2016 Michigan Ballot

[Timmahh]

money is useless without desire and drive, and the Government is creating more misconception which inspires drive with less and less use of money.

 

Ofcourse money can help make the world go around a bit better, but this big old gal will still spin without money, or us even.. So its not THAT important. basically MONEY is only important when one puts a value on it.

 

IMO, our Freedom and Liberty is Priceless, and as more people come to this realization, the more people that wake up to the reality we are actually dealing with. most of which, leaves money WAY WAY WAY behind in importance.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Timmahh

[Restorium2]

Supreme Court Justices are the cure. Voting in a Dem president was the step we just accomplish with or without you. You can't deny us, we won. The single most powerful thing that has been done, to further cannabis in America, in this century, is voting in a Dem president, who will appoint the right judges. Go ahead and keep flapping your lips and we will continue to win battles for you, or with you. It's your choice to either help, or just watch and enjoy the ride.

[peanutbutter]

Supreme Court Justices are the cure. Voting in a Dem president was the step we just accomplish with or without you. You can't deny us, we won. The single most powerful thing that has been done, to further cannabis in America, in this century, is voting in a Dem president, who will appoint the right judges. Go ahead and keep flapping your lips and we will continue to win battles for you, or with you. It's your choice to either help, or just watch and enjoy the ride.

 

Democrats run the US Senate.

 

What have they done?

 

What has Obama done in the last four years? Allowed more collective raids in CA than any other president.

 

How does working for the democrats help us? It doesn't.

 

So we should abandon working toward legal mj and work for the democrats? That hasn't worked so far.

 

ANY EFFORT TO SUPPORT A PARTY IS A WASTE OF OUR EFFORTS.

Edited November 14, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Restorium2]

Democrats run the US Senate.

 

What have they done?

 

What has Obama done in the last four years? Allowed more collective raids in CA than any other president.

 

How does working for the democrats help us? It doesn't.

 

So we should abandon working toward legal mj and work for the democrats? That hasn't worked so far.

 

ANY EFFORT TO SUPPORT A PARTY IS A WASTE OF OUR EFFORTS.

Pay attention. I was talking about the SUPREME COURT JUSTICES. We already won the biggest prize in politics and you can't even see it. They are the gift that keeps on giving for longer than anything else you can ever politically accomplish in this country. You want to gloss right over the most important thing that has happened FOR cannabis in your lifetime.

[bobandtorey]

In my opinion, Michigan medical patients have it made compared to what legalization would give you. Look to Washington. They got legal but they can't even legally get any marijuana because the implemention schedule, for any kind of legal supply, is scheduled for December of next year. Then you can only buy it at a store. No one will ever get to grow their own there. What good is that? It's like having a car but no road to drive it on, or no gas for it. If you are already a Michigan patient that qualifies to grow your own, you already have a little piece of heaven. You aren't going to enjoy anything even close to that with legalization. Why even wish for something less than what you already have? What's THE POINT? I'm guessing most people who want legalization don't understand the huge limitations they would still have. You can't grow it. You can't sell it. You can only have it if you bought it at a store. There are no stores for at least a year. Who wants to buck up a million for that kind of action? Only the potential pot store owners, who will want to eat your lunch for decades to get back their investment. And here's the HUGE risk: Will there still be our little piece of medical heaven when it gets legalized? When the state run pot stores have their monopoly, will the state leave us be as their only competition? Or will they say it's time you became a pot store customer too? It's never going to be better than you have it right now, IMO.

You do make some good points we all need to fight for what we have now

And it's not much as far as I can see because no one can even use your Card in Court

Look at are case after almost 4 years we still can't use are cards and as most here know we were legal under plants locked up and under 1oz of Meds

PS

As far as the count from the C.O.A it's not 19-0 it's 18-1

[Restorium2]

You do make some good points we all need to fight for what we have now

And it's not much as far as I can see because no one can even use your Card in Court

Look at are case after almost 4 years we still can't use are cards and as most here know we were legal under plants locked up and under 1oz of Meds

PS

As far as the count from the C.O.A it's not 19-0 it's 18-1

I know quite a few people who have used their cards to stay out of prison. They were not over at all though. I know things didn't work out for you Bob. But many of us have been enjoying more rights than we had back in '08 and before. I even talked with one patient that had there card accepted by a fed. They were totally in compliance and the fed was polite and respectful. He actually smiled and said that it was good to see someone trying to follow the law. People use their cards every day to stay out of trouble. We both have seen people get a lesser sentences now than we would have. Heck, a convicted dispensary owner who didn't go to prison? Yup, that happened on our watch. And we know it's because we got a law. You remember how things were? Things are a lot different now and we don't want to go backwards at all.

[+Malamute]

Lobbying ..

 

Elections? We can't get a direct federal vote about cannabis.

 

Some folks would have me believe that if I donate the rest of my life toward a political party, I'll be rewarded by federal marijuana policy change.

 

That's a lie. I don't intend to get deceived into donating the rest of my life to support a political party that has never clearly supported federal change of marijuana policy.

 

The democrats are supposed to be the cure. I don't see marijuana on the agenda to be voted on yet. Not at the federal level.

 

So with them, it's all a con job .. lip service only. So far. They could change that, if they wished.

 

What does political parties have to do with it? We vote in cannabis friendly candidates from either party. No wonder you can;t figure it out. Narrow minded strategy and tactics.

 

We had 160 votes for leaving medical cannabis to the states in the US house. 50 odd votes and we are there on that side.

 

And honestly, what do Judges have to do with it? Judges rule ont he law and cannabis is illegal. Period. This has been ruled okie dokie by the court, liberal and conservative, to enforce the drug war. Judges won;t help in the big picture until we change the law they are ruling on. This is why NORML failed for so long because all they did was think they could convince a Judge that the drug laws don;t exist. They have been ruled constitutional for decades and decades.

 

You have to change the law. How do you change the law?

 

Elections and Advocacy.

[+Malamute]

Also, it took alot of money to pass those initiatives in Washington and Colorado. That stuff doesnt just fall from the sky. Like the MMMAct. Someone had to pay a crapload of money to make that happen(MPP). It takes money to make change.

[Restorium2]

When we do change the law we will need the judges. We need all the branches. The past 8 years have been as successful as they could be with the Supreme Court Judges. That's one victory we can enjoy. We are building one branch of government in our favor. You can't fix the court with an initiative. You have to do it by voting in the right president. It takes a lot of time, we have 8 years of successful work under our belts now.

[SFC]

Bob, sadly you got caught up right off the bat. The smoke had not even begun to clear and the cards were not even out. Fast forward to today, the landscape is vastly different. What happened to you then would not happen now.

 

And hey, on a personal level it is "our" not "are"! It makes your posts difficult to follow...

[Highlander]

Bob, sadly you got caught up right off the bat. The smoke had not even begun to clear and the cards were not even out. Fast forward to today, the landscape is vastly different. What happened to you then would not happen now.

 

And hey, on a personal level it is "our" not "are"! It makes your posts difficult to follow...

Bob, sadly you got caught up right off the bat. The smoke had not even begun to clear and the cards were not even out. Fast forward to today, the landscape is vastly different. What happened to you then would not happen now.

 

And hey, on a personal level it is "our" not "are"! It makes your posts difficult to follow...

 

I think Bob uses voice recognition software or something because you'll see that similar sounding words are frequently in place of the "right" word.

[Celliach]

money is useless without desire and drive, and the Government is creating more misconception which inspires drive with less and less use of money.

 

Ofcourse money can help make the world go around a bit better, but this big old gal will still spin without money, or us even.. So its not THAT important. basically MONEY is only important when one puts a value on it.

 

IMO, our Freedom and Liberty is Priceless, and as more people come to this realization, the more people that wake up to the reality we are actually dealing with. most of which, leaves money WAY WAY WAY behind in importance.

 

The desire and drive are both there already. Without the money, they will take us nowhere.

[Timmahh]

Baaaaaaaaaaa ba baaaaaaaaaaa.

 

you see that is why you folks will fail.

 

you continue to play the losing hand they dealt you. Until those of you stuck in lala land can get past your shallow hangups of being right, or getting paid, or being the hero, you will continue to Fail. If you refuse to change your approach, how in the hellios can you expect a different outcome.

 

yes Cell everyones bottom line is still SHOW ME THE MONEY. which is why that shallow mindset is a gaurenteed failure.

until you sheeple can come to grips with there is more to this then YOU, you are doomed to repeat the failures of the past.

[Herb Cannabis]

I hear that, them same stoners are the ones that go protest for mm at the capital, do we realy want them with us? I was a member of minorml and I dont have any probs with them, but they have said and still do say they are not here for mm pt's they are here for all out use, not just for mm, they have gone so far as to say dont go to this protest or that protest, it isnt for all out legalization, its only for mm pt's/ c.g's! but they show up anyhow in there tie died t-shirts and blunts and make us all look bad! wow that seems like a good plan! NOT!!!

 

Allowing hemp to be grown by farmers for fuel, rope, clothes, canvas, paper, it would be a boom, it is not for meds, it is for things that all peole wear or use every day, and you cant get high from writing on the paper, or wearing the clothes or using the fuel, it has nothing to do with smoking or medicating, it is a great way to save our farmers, save our trees, hemp can be a cash cow for this state!

 

Peace

Jim

 

Trust me, MINORML is here for the MMJ community, I'm a case in point!

[peanutbutter]

Pay attention. I was talking about the SUPREME COURT JUSTICES. We already won the biggest prize in politics and you can't even see it. They are the gift that keeps on giving for longer than anything else you can ever politically accomplish in this country. You want to gloss right over the most important thing that has happened FOR cannabis in your lifetime.

 

We elected the lessor of two evils.

 

SC judges friendly toward us? Have there been any appointed and are there going to be some more to be appointed?

 

Mal seems to disagree in that he believes courts are the wrong focus.

[CaveatLector]

Baaaaaaaaaaa ba baaaaaaaaaaa.

 

you see that is why you folks will fail.

 

you continue to play the losing hand they dealt you. Until those of you stuck in lala land can get past your shallow hangups of being right, or getting paid, or being the hero, you will continue to Fail. If you refuse to change your approach, how in the hellios can you expect a different outcome.

 

yes Cell everyones bottom line is still SHOW ME THE MONEY. which is why that shallow mindset is a gaurenteed failure.

until you sheeple can come to grips with there is more to this then YOU, you are doomed to repeat the failures of the past.

Wow you've got all the answers. Maybe you could wipes the arses of us sheeple and then lead us to the promised land.

[peanutbutter]

And honestly, what do Judges have to do with it? Judges rule ont he law and cannabis is illegal. Period.

 

Ahh .. I assume you would agree that "not accepted in medical treatment within the United States" is now a false statement. Perhaps not as a matter of law, but as a practical matter.

 

Since that statement is no longer true, the current scheduling of cannabis is incorrect.

 

Currently the DEA claims to be the authority that determines what is accepted. The federal CSA did not give them the authority to determine that.

 

While this situation exists, persons are being tried, convicted and sentenced under incorrect scheduling. This is a harm that is being improperly inflicted on US citizens.

 

It is possible that federal courts could recognize that current scheduling is in error and improper enforcement must stop.

 

Precedence for determining who "accepts" something under the authority granted by the CSA was established in 2006. Gonzalas v Oregon. The topic was not drugs, but a medical practice. The key phrase was "accepted for medical practice within the United States." The DEA claimed they didn't accept the Oregon practice of assisted suicide. The court ruled the CSA didn't give them the authority to determine acceptance and further that Oregon has "accepted" the practice by law. That by trying to claim authority to make the acceptance determination, the DEA exceeded the authority granted under the CSA.

 

So there are some juicy arguments that are on their way up the ladder right now. In fact, the "accepted" argument was presented at the COA hearing in Washington DC. Not in the oral presentations, but in the paperwork filed by Carl Olsen.

[+Malamute]

So you are saying that if cannabis is schedule 2 it will solve the problem?

 

I mean, cocaine is schedule 2 and how is that working out for people in prison?

 

Marijuana has penalties all its own on the sentencing chart and rescheduling on the national level will not change those penalties.

 

State level in many states it could alter their State passed CSA's.

 

Nothing really changes until we change the law. The only way to change the law is to go through the Legislature. The only way to get the Legislature to pass cannabis friendly legislation is to have a majority of Rep's/Senators vote for the bill. The only way to get a majority of votes is to elect cannabis friendly candidates. I helped send a cannabis friendly Rep. to COngress,... did you?

[Herb Cannabis]

So you are saying that if cannabis is schedule 2 it will solve the problem?

 

I mean, cocaine is schedule 2 and how is that working out for people in prison?

 

Marijuana has penalties all its own on the sentencing chart and rescheduling on the national level will not change those penalties.

 

State level in many states it could alter their State passed CSA's.

 

Nothing really changes until we change the law. The only way to change the law is to go through the Legislature. The only way to get the Legislature to pass cannabis friendly legislation is to have a majority of Rep's/Senators vote for the bill. The only way to get a majority of votes is to elect cannabis friendly candidates. I helped send a cannabis friendly Rep. to COngress,... did you? I tried!

[SFC]

Alright Tim, show us how it is done! It amazes me how one minute you can be totally coherent and the next go straight to naive beyond belief.

[peanutbutter]

So you are saying that if cannabis is schedule 2 it will solve the problem?

 

I mean, cocaine is schedule 2 and how is that working out for people in prison?

 

Marijuana has penalties all its own on the sentencing chart and rescheduling on the national level will not change those penalties.

 

State level in many states it could alter their State passed CSA's.

 

With any honest evaluation, it doesn't belong in two either.

 

Are the penalties you refer to federal? Would federal rescheduling change federal sentencing?

 

Nothing really changes until we change the law. The only way to change the law is to go through the Legislature. The only way to get the Legislature to pass cannabis friendly legislation is to have a majority of Rep's/Senators vote for the bill. The only way to get a majority of votes is to elect cannabis friendly candidates. I helped send a cannabis friendly Rep. to COngress,... did you?

 

At least a couple. One came to visit at my home the day before the election.

[+Malamute]

With any honest evaluation, it doesn't belong in two either.

 

Of course it doesnt. It is a natural herb/plant just like poppies and coca leaves. Only the extractions should be monitored if needed by the FDA.

 

Are the penalties you refer to federal? Would federal rescheduling change federal sentencing?

 

I thought you were the one that asked me what about Federal. Yes, i am speaking Federal except for the one reference to State CSA's sometimes addressing drug sentencing by schedule. On the federal level, cannabis has its own sentencing guidelines. Those would need to be changed and would still exist unless there is a descheduling. Rescheduling would not change the penalties or the law surrounding cannabis as illegal if not approved by the FDA for distribution/possession. As i said, cocaine is only schedule 2 and it is still illegal for any format other than FDA approved reasons. It would be the same when a basic rescheduling of cannabis is addressed.

 

At least a couple. One came to visit at my home the day before the election.

A couple US congressmen/women? Cool.

[+Malamute]

The Battle for Justice is Measured in Inches.

 

Rescheduling gets us Research. Research gets us proof. Proof begets change.

 

Would it be a step in the right direction? Likely. :-)