Ask Lucas

[michaelscott]

 

 

Because if you earn enough money to live in a million dollar home, your time is worth at least $100 per hour - not the maybe $10/hour you'd save by growing you own.

 

Again, opportunity cost is irrelevant. If you are gardening instead of watching television it doesn't matter what your time is worth. If you are gardening instead of working then you are a commercial operation and your cost structure is different with opportunity cost as a part of it.

 

Example 2

 

Patient B lives in a house he paid 500 a month for spends an average of 250 on meds a month from the dispensary. He decides to grow for himself, he has a very small place and uses half his square footage for the grow. When figuring out the costs according to Highlander the space already costs him 250 a month, adding in everything else and he actually makes money going to the dispensary.

 

Oh and why can't rich people enjoy gardening, do you have any hobbies?

[Highlander]

Again, opportunity cost is irrelevant. If you are gardening instead of watching television it doesn't matter what your time is worth. If you are gardening instead of working then you are a commercial operation and your cost structure is different with opportunity cost as a part of it.

 

Example 2

 

Patient B lives in a house he paid 500 a month for spends an average of 250 on meds a month from the dispensary. He decides to grow for himself, he has a very small place and uses half his square footage for the grow. When figuring out the costs according to Highlander the space already costs him 250 a month, adding in everything else and he actually makes money going to the dispensary.

 

Oh and why can't rich people enjoy gardening, do you have any hobbies?

 

 

Next time I buy a house I am going to tell the seller than I will only use 80% of the space, so I want a 20% reduction in cost. I'm also going to ask that my utilities, taxes, and insurance all get lowered to reflect my lack of use of the extra space.

 

If you don't consider use of your time as a cost, you are either too young to understand the value of your time, or you flat out don't value your time.

 

Since you like examples

 

Patient A has a full basement he doesn't ever use, so he decides to grow for himself and save $200/month buying meds.

 

Patient B has a full basement he doesn't ever use. He sells his house and moves to a condo. His monthly expenses for a residence drop by $500/month but he pays $200 more a month for his meds.

 

Now go tell patient A that there is no cost for the space he grows in.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Highlander

[Wild Bill]

I have a perpetual grow with fluorescent lights & bubble buckets with DynaGro nutes. I maximize the light penetration using low stress training.

 

My electric bill averages $89 per month, nutes $50 - $75 per year. Rockwool cubes & misc. supplies maybe $20 per year. Net pots & Hydroton are reusable and I don't remember what I initially paid for them. I usually get about 2 to 3 ozs. per month. (enough for my personal needs)

 

The space in my home would otherwise be used to store unneeded junk so I'm not really out anything there. If I counted labor it's usually only a few minutes every day to check water levels etc. Of course when cloning, moving plants & harvesting it takes more time. But since I'm just growing for myself I don't really count labor, it's more of a hobby.

 

So assuming that my only electric usage is for growing (which it's not) it costs me around $40 per oz.

 

My actual usage for grow lights & air pumps is probably around $25 per month so my real cost is closer to $15 per oz.

 

Since you get larger yields with better lighting it seems perfectly reasonable that you could grow for $20 per oz. using proper techniques.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Wild Bill

[michaelscott]

 

 

 

Next time I buy a house I am going to tell the seller than I will only use 80% of the space, so I want a 20% reduction in cost. I'm also going to ask that my utilities, taxes, and insurance all get lowered to reflect my lack of use of the extra space.

 

If you don't consider use of your time as a cost, you are either too young to understand the value of your time, or you flat out don't value your time.

 

Since you like examples

 

Patient A has a full basement he doesn't ever use, so he decides to grow for himself and save $200/month buying meds.

 

Patient B has a full basement he doesn't ever use. He sells his house and moves to a condo. His monthly expenses for a residence drop by $500/month but he pays $200 more a month for his meds.

 

Now go tell patient A that there is no cost for the space he grows in.

 

I would tell patient A to follow patient B and grow his meds at the condo. 200 in meds a month is not an issue in a condo.

 

 

[CaveatLector]

The suggestion that attaching a value to your space makes you a commercial operation is ridiculous. What if I have an acre of raw land behind my house that is never used for anything? My neighbor approaches me one year and asks to grow a vegetable garden on it. Because I wasn't using it previously does that mean it has no value and I should let him grow there free of charge or should I accept a $500 offer he makes to me to grow on it for one season? This is basic economics.

[michaelscott]

I have a perpetual grow with fluorescent lights & bubble buckets with DynaGro nutes. I maximize the light penetration using low stress training.

 

My electric bill averages $89 per month, nutes $50 - $75 per year. Rockwool cubes & misc. supplies maybe $20 per year. Net pots & Hydroton are reusable and I don't remember what I initially paid for them. I usually get about 2 to 3 ozs. per month. (enough for my personal needs)

 

The space in my home would otherwise be used to store unneeded junk so I'm not really out anything there. If I counted labor it's usually only a few minutes every day to check water levels etc. Of course when cloning, moving plants & harvesting it takes more time. But since I'm just growing for myself I don't really count labor, it's more of a hobby.

 

So assuming that my only electric usage is for growing (which it's not) it costs me around $40 per oz.

 

My actual usage for grow lights & air pumps is probably around $25 per month so my real cost is closer to $15 per oz.

 

Since you get larger yields with better lighting it seems perfectly reasonable that you could grow for $20 per oz. using proper techniques.

 

perfect example thank you

[michaelscott]

The suggestion that attaching a value to your space makes you a commercial operation is ridiculous. What if I have an acre of raw land behind my house that is never used for anything? My neighbor approaches me one year and asks to grow a vegetable garden on it. Because I wasn't using it previously does that mean it has no value and I should let him grow there free of charge or should I accept a $500 offer he makes to me to grow on it for one season? This is basic economics.

 

what does value have to do with anything? We are discussing how a patient arrives at his cost. When arriving at this cost it would be misleading to include your space in the cost if this space already exists and is available for use. It would be misleading to include an opportunity cost towards labor if it is not keeping you from earning income somewhere else. I do realize that a caregiver with patients would include these costs as that is a different situation. As a caregiver you are working and would expense the labor at what you as an individual are worth. Your home is your workplace and would expense the appropriate percentage of the home used for work.

[michaelscott]

I have a perpetual grow with fluorescent lights & bubble buckets with DynaGro nutes. I maximize the light penetration using low stress training.

 

My electric bill averages $89 per month, nutes $50 - $75 per year. Rockwool cubes & misc. supplies maybe $20 per year. Net pots & Hydroton are reusable and I don't remember what I initially paid for them. I usually get about 2 to 3 ozs. per month. (enough for my personal needs)

 

The space in my home would otherwise be used to store unneeded junk so I'm not really out anything there. If I counted labor it's usually only a few minutes every day to check water levels etc. Of course when cloning, moving plants & harvesting it takes more time. But since I'm just growing for myself I don't really count labor, it's more of a hobby.

 

So assuming that my only electric usage is for growing (which it's not) it costs me around $40 per oz.

 

My actual usage for grow lights & air pumps is probably around $25 per month so my real cost is closer to $15 per oz.

 

Since you get larger yields with better lighting it seems perfectly reasonable that you could grow for $20 per oz. using proper techniques.

 

That is a great setup, could you ballpark the initial build and how much space it takes up?

[Highlander]

what does value have to do with anything? We are discussing how a patient arrives at his cost. When arriving at this cost it would be misleading to include your space in the cost if this space already exists and is available for use. It would be misleading to include an opportunity cost towards labor if it is not keeping you from earning income somewhere else. I do realize that a caregiver with patients would include these costs as that is a different situation. As a caregiver you are working and would expense the labor at what you as an individual are worth. Your home is your workplace and would expense the appropriate percentage of the home used for work.

 

Then don't put this in terms of "cost." When you say "cost" you, by definition, include opportunity cost. Look it up in a dictionary.

 

So you are misusing the word "cost."

 

Maybe you could say "expense" or "marginal cost." That might get you the answer you want.

 

Ok, we figured out that this is a vocabulary issue.

 

Now that I understand what you meant to say, I will weigh in on the matter:

 

For the average patient, who owns/lives in a location where she can grow 12 plants indoors without worry, who already has two light-proof, lockable rooms, who was gifted a 400w MH light with a timer and a 600w HPS with a timer, who has enough electrical capacity (60 amp service with electric water heater, range, etc. is common and leaves little to no electrical capacity to add growing medical-grade cannabis) and can do this without a lot of odor or humidity to stink up the neighborhood and mold the house from the inside out....(necessitating additional equipment and expense)

 

But let's say that all of the space, locks, environmental controls, odor controls...all that come for free.

 

Then what is the cost.. It seems this is your question. So this is the question I will now try to answer.

 

12 plants. Like Christine says...no moms. and pick a 7 week strain. Take your clone cuttings from the vegging plants. On second thought....we'll say flower for 8 weeks.

 

2 cuttings rooted - 2 weeks

4 plants vegging for 3 weeks (these are the source of the cuttings)

6 plants flowering for 8 weeks.

 

That's 12 plants on a 12 week cycle. If you are at least kinda good at cloning and work a little to get things spaced out, you can easily get to the point of harvesting two plants every other week at one oz. each. Easily.

 

Your 400w MH running 24 hours/day (this is also the light for the clones off to the side), at 15 cents per Kw/h, which is about as expensive as it gets, is 288 kw/hr per month = $43/month

 

Your 600w HPS (you need to prop your little plants up on inverted buckets or something to keep them close....requires a bit more moving around than would a 1000w) at 12 hours per day would run 216 kw/h per month, or about $33. Add another $10 per month for a couple of fans and a blower for the odor control. Add another $100/month for nutrients, soil, carbon, bulbs, replacement of durable equipment, etc.

 

That's about $186/month. Add some disaster allowance, air fresher, etc. and we'll round it off to $200/month.

 

You harvest 4 plants per month and get about 1oz/plant.

 

So $50/oz. marginal cost.

 

And yes, you could put in extra effort to double that yield and get costs down to $25/oz.

 

But this is where the misleading discussion comes in. Patients hear $25/oz and think they can grow what they need for $25/oz....when they need 2 oz/month. It is far easier grow 8 oz/month for $200 than it is to grow 2 oz per month for $50.

[michaelscott]

 

But this is where the misleading discussion comes in. Patients hear $25/oz and think they can grow what they need for $25/oz....when they need 2 oz/month. It is far easier grow 8 oz/month for $200 than it is to grow 2 oz per month for $50.

 

Did you read the post from wild bill, he can do it. Costs can actually go up as well, price of electricity can go up based on increased consumption. Things like buying a trimmer because of increased production. So on so on

[Wild Bill]

That is a great setup, could you ballpark the initial build and how much space it takes up?

 

3' x 5' for veg and 4' x 4' for flower.

 

I'm actually working on tutorial for the set up. I so often hear "It's too expensive and difficult to grow my own."

This set up is mostly free and the rest is cheap. Easy to maintain once everything is up and running.

 

My problem when I first started my medical grow was having too much.

 

I scaled down to next to nothing and it works out just right for me.

[pic book]

back to the topic...people using Lucas pulling 25 oz off 1000 light in 3 gallon bags of dirt

Christenew, I want to learn something from you. I'm aware of Heath Robinson's grows and his 25-ounce plants in hydro under 3-600 watt lamps (pics on multiple sites over the years), but you have seen somebody equaling Heath (or you do it yourself) using Lucas in 3-gallon bags of dirt?

Edited March 9, 2013 by pic book

[cristinew]

Yes i flower in 3 gallon bags pro mix ,, during the peak of flower i have to water twice a day,,, if you over water your yield will decrease ,,

 

small plants use small pots,, they get a little bigger fo to the next size,, never put a little plant into a large container,, you never see them do this at the garden shops

 

and yes Wild Bill

 

Since you get larger yields with better lighting it seems perfectly reasonable that you could grow for $20 per oz. using proper techniques.

Edited March 9, 2013 by cristinew

[cristinew]

Lucas Puts 10 small plants under 1000 watts gets a little over 2 oz per plant,, I use his nUts but i flower in 3 stages , veg in 3 stages ,,

[Camnibus]

In theory $20/oz meds are more than possible..... and so are time travel, winning the lottery, discovering the meaning of life...... Reality calls BS.

[cristinew]

Hey Cannabis there are 100s of people doing the Lucas with these results too bad your so far out of touch,

Edited March 9, 2013 by cristinew

[cristinew]

3 gallon grow bag http://i50.tinypic.com/w14chc.jpg[/img]"]http://

[cristinew]

now the top http://i47.tinypic.com/2i75rf8.jpg[/img]"]http://

[cristinew]

Notice the leaves no burnt tips green no yellow perfect that is Reality

[cristinew]

Now if someone wants to Learn how to do this i will gladly teach them,,,

[cristinew]

do any of you na sayers test this good??? http://i45.tinypic.com/35mqo47.jpg[/img]"]http://

[cristinew]

I just use 16 ml of flora bloom 8 ml of flora micro ph to 6 ,,,, used in both rooms,, veg and flower ,, then i add the supplemts in the flower room,, '

[cristinew]

I give them 6 weeks of food 10 days of water ph 6 flush this is the resulthttp://i45.tinypic.com/2wduiqe.jpg[/img]"]http://

[hic]

Very healthy very nice.

 

Thank you for showing me what you have to offer cristinew

Edited March 10, 2013 by hic

[Sledge]

Very nice Cristinew

thanks for sharing!