Tincture Question

[MedicatedJester]

I have made a number of batches of alcohol based tincture over the last year or so. I generally use about an oz of bud/shake and everclear. I decarb the plant, use a warm bath with the everclear. Then let it sit for at least two weeks, shaking twice a day.

 

After that, I just let it evaporate until I have about an oz of fluid.

 

This usually works great. I end up with an extremely dark green fluid, and 8-10 drops is a good dose for me.

 

Here is the question. This time I did not get a dark green fluid, but instead I got an amber colored fluid, with a dark green (black) oily sludge at the bottom.

 

The only things I did differently this time was use double the plant material, and where I normally squeeze/press the cannabis to extract all fluid, I did a very cursory pressing with a spoon (as opposed to a garlic press). I did evaporate it all down to an oz, so it should be close to double potency this time.

 

This amber and black fluid do not really mix. If you've ever mixed olive oil and balsamic vinegar, that's very close to what I have.

 

Do I need both fluids? Just one?

 

I am in the process of testing one, then the other, so I will figure it out, just wondered if anyone had any ideas about why the difference?

[+washtenaut]

Hmmm, might there be a saturation level that was reached as far as the alcohol's ability to take up the cannabis oil?

[MedicatedJester]

If it was a super-saturation situation, I would think the amber "liquid" would be dark colored, just like the "oily" sludge.

Edited August 16, 2013 by MedicatedJester

[MedicatedJester]

Well, it was easy to tell where the medicine was. Figuring it was stronger this time, I only took 4 drops (half of the low end of my normal dose).

 

I tried the amber liquid, no detectable effect. I tried the dark oily liquid.. Holy cow. At 4 drops it is much more potent than my normal 8-10 drop dosage.

 

I wonder what was different this time to cause the oily, medical portion of the solution to separate from the alcohol. (Oh yeah, that's another thing. The amber liquid tasted and burned like alcohol, but the dark liquid had virtually no alcohol taste or burn).

[MedicatedJester]

Too bad I have to dump it now due to recent court rulings.

[Wild Bill]

Too bad I have to dump it now due to recent court rulings.

 

Make sure you dispose of it safely.

 

[in vivo]

I wouldn't write off amber colored alcohol.

[bobandtorey]

Make sure you dispose of it safely.

 

LOL

[MedicatedJester]

I was just thinking about this today for some reason (yes, the original post was a year ago), and I thought I'd provide an update.  First, there is now no doubt that the dark material was the extracted oil.  The amber liquid was simply the alcohol that had separated from the oil, and was amber in color due to trace amounts of herb material/oil.

 

Here is what's interesting.  I have now produced quite a number of batches of oil/tincture.  In fact, I now let virtually all alcohol evaporate, which eliminates any burning from the alcohol when I put it under my tongue.  In addition, 2-4 drops is plenty as far as dosage goes.  However, that separation of the oil and alcohol, almost as if the oil "dropped" out of the alcohol once is reached a certain density, has never happened again.  I wish I could figure out what I did, because it would be great to have the oil just "drop out" and not have to wait for the evaporation (yes, I know I can cook it off, but I am 50% lazy and 50% hesitant to try it).

 

It's a great mystery to me.  Hopefully the legislature will finally pass that extract bill and I can get back to making my tincture.  Legally.

[trichcycler]

it possibly came out of solution because of the water/sugar content in the solvent you used . Oil and water do not mix.  alcohol and water do. alcohol and oil do. I think the alcohol you have does have active compounds in it. I would heat it some more, figure out how to remove the water maybe.

[MedicatedJester]

It's definitely a good theory grassmatch, but I use 190 proof Everclear for every extraction.  So, any water/sugar content should be minimal and at least consistent between batches.  It's been awhile since that batch, but unless I somehow contaminated it in some other way it should have been consistent with all other batches.  That's what's perplexing!!  Alas, I will probably never know.

[GregS]

Make sure you dispose of it safely.

 

Body shots with Olivia Wilde would do it.

[Restorium2]

It's definitely a good theory grassmatch, but I use 190 proof Everclear for every extraction.  So, any water/sugar content should be minimal and at least consistent between batches.  It's been awhile since that batch, but unless I somehow contaminated it in some other way it should have been consistent with all other batches.  That's what's perplexing!!  Alas, I will probably never know.

Then the only variable is the cannabis. I bet it had a higher water content. Water falls out of solution.

[trichcycler]

It's definitely a good theory grassmatch, but I use 190 proof Everclear for every extraction.  So, any water/sugar content should be minimal and at least consistent between batches.  It's been awhile since that batch, but unless I somehow contaminated it in some other way it should have been consistent with all other batches.  That's what's perplexing!!  Alas, I will probably never know.

10% is a substantial amount of water to be in an extraction solvent, if that's what it is. I don't know the sugar amounts. Luckily water is fairly easy to remove. don discard the amber water though. at least make a lotion with it maybe ?

[I wood]

10% is a substantial amount of water to be in an extraction solvent, if that's what it is. I don't know the sugar amounts. Luckily water is fairly easy to remove. don discard the amber water though. at least make a lotion with it maybe ?

I would like a fairly easy way to remove the last of the water from my alcohol.

Distillation will only get to about 96% and molecular sieves work but are a pain in the @ss.

[Restorium2]

I would like a fairly easy way to remove the last of the water from my alcohol.

Distillation will only get to about 96% and molecular sieves work but are a pain in the @ss.

Are you sure a still only gives you 96%? Why wouldn't it be 100% if the temperature was below the boiling point of water?

[I wood]

In a closed lab type set up 100% is possible.

I don't want the liability of a lab.

Countertop distillers top out at 96-98%. Alcohol is very hygroscopic.

Looking for easy and discrete.

 

Edited to add hygroscopic spelled correctly.

Edited July 11, 2014 by I wood

[I wood]

Yes.

3A is the size for water molecules.

Large volume of zeolite is required to remove last few percent of water.

Zeolite needs to be recharged (baked at high temperatures) after each use.

Pretty inefficient, but does work.

[Restorium2]

Found this 'salting out' tutorial;

 

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Salt-Out/

[I wood]

Found this 'salting out' tutorial;http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Salt-Out/

Interesting, thank you.

Ethyl alcohol is my choice of solvent. I will give that a try just to see if it works on ethyl.

I don't care much for isopropyl.

[I wood]

This is becoming unimportant due to the only patient of mine who smokes the oil moving to Kentucky for family reasons.

He had no problem with oil anyways and insisted it was great the way it was. Myself and other patients only consume the oil orally, the difference is negligible ingested that way.

[Restorium2]

Meijer used to have 99% iso alcohol. Now they only have 91%. So I have to use my ISO2 to distill it before I can use it. Lots of extra time and trouble. I haven't seen a difference between the oil made from 99% and that made from the distilled 91%. The oil seems to be free of any water. No separation. Why would a little (2-4%) water, be a problem?

[I wood]

When I tried 99%(from meijers) the resulting oil was darker green than any other solvent used.

I now use the 99% for cleaning my hands after trimming.

Acetone makes the cleanest oil, dark honey colored, but is expensive in the proper grade.

Ethyl alcohol is easy to produce,makes CO2 as a byproduct, and is not toxic.

I make it in the flowering room, no wasted CO2.

[Restorium2]

When I tried 99%(from meijers) the resulting oil was darker green than any other solvent used.

I now use the 99% for cleaning my hands after trimming.

Acetone makes the cleanest oil, dark honey colored, but is expensive in the proper grade.

Ethyl alcohol is easy to produce,makes CO2 as a byproduct, and is not toxic.

I make it in the flowering room, no wasted CO2.

Tutorial?

[I wood]

Meijer used to have 99% iso alcohol. Now they only have 91%. So I have to use my ISO2 to distill it before I can use it. Lots of extra time and trouble. I haven't seen a difference between the oil made from 99% and that made from the distilled 91%. The oil seems to be free of any water. No separation. Why would a little (2-4%) water, be a problem?

Chlorophyll and sugars are soluble in water, more water equals more of those.

I tried 91% and 99% isopropyl, wasn't happy with either.

From 96% to 99% ethyl the difference is noticeable but not worth the effort unless intended for smoking.