Patients As Caregivers?

[smarrs1]

My question is, can a patient, who already has a caregiver, also be a caregiver for someone else? Or, put another way, can a patient appoint another patient as their caregiver if that other patient has someone else as their caregiver? For example, I have my brother-in-law as my caregiver, I know that I cannot possess plants for myself. BUT, I have the capacity to grow for a fellow patient friend of mine. Can he appoint me as his caregiver and can I grow HIS 12 plants and provide HIM with 2.5 ounces as long as I keep his paperwork in my grow room and as long as none of the plants are technically mine or used by me? 

 

I have looked and looked for anything written in the law that would prevent such a thing but I can't find anything that specifically forbids this. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Restorium2]

Have a really good story for the judge as to why you wanted to do this. Have solid reasons that involve medical use and the perfect judge might side with you.

[Kingdiamond]

Why not instead of making it confusing you just tell your current caregiver that you want your plant count back but want to retain him as your caregiver meaning you have your plants and he can still provide you medicine.

[t-pain]

My question is, can a patient, who already has a caregiver, also be a caregiver for someone else?

 

yes. you can be a cg and have a cg.

just fill out the forms and send in $10.

[Norby]

Not that it would hold up in court but you should be able to partake in the medicine you grow for someone else legally.  Technically as a patient you are covered to buy from anywhere and since your technically not selling it to yourself but possess it and your a patient....  Not an attorney just my logic.

 

I've thought about this as I'll never need 72 plants but would like to connect with someone to get clones and different meds.  I wouldn't do it unless I could find a caregiver who had some genetics I wanted and grew organic but I should be able to get clones and use them for my patients as I'm possessing them for my condition and when I clone it it's, oops flaw in the logic.  I'd probably have to retain my plant count for them to be covered selling me clones.  Anyway I like diversity and had been thinking about it.

[GregS]

The short answer is yes.

[Dr Gruber]

According to the lawyer I talked to it is not legal at all. So i guess the short answer would actually be No...

[Dr Gruber]

That is interesting, Dr. Gruber. Who is your lawyer, and did he give a rationale as to why he thinks a patient cannot also be a caregiver?

 

It was a small part of a much larger conversation and i was so shocked that i didn't ask the proper questions to get a grasp on it.

I plan to bring it up again the next time we speak and get a definitive answer.

 

Im not sure why, but i dont want to mention the name just yet...let me get a better answer and i will fill you in.

 

What i was told is that the people who made the forms were not lawyers and accidentally left a loophole and that the loophole has been corrected on the new forms. I have not looked at the new forms yet to confirm this but i was advised to fill out a change form and get rid of my caregiver.

 

I dont want to say i have the final answer but I am a little reluctant to give advise that is contrary to what a lawyer would say.

 

I will be in contact soon and will get back to you.....

[imiubu]

Have a caregiver, be a caregiver

[Highlander]

According to the lawyer I talked to it is not legal at all. So i guess the short answer would actually be No...

 

LARA routinely registers patient A as patient B's CG and vice-versa.  There are sound and valid reasons for such arrangements.  It allows for a two-way transfer of meds, seeds, clones etc. without question. 

 

If you have a simple pt-CG arrangement, then it would be hard to argue that the patient can transfer seeds to the CG for safekeeping for later use by the transferring patient.  If the pt and CG are each others' CG, then there is a much stronger argument that transfers in both directions are OK.

 

I'd be curious to hear what the attorney used as the reasoning behind his position.

 

Edited to add:  the two above posts went up while I was writing, so sorry for the redundant question.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Highlander

[Norby]

My question is that if I'm your patient and your mine and we both have other patients, can you give me a clone for my med condition and can I cut off that clone after it's mine and then grow it for one of my patients or does anything that comes from you have to forever be only meds for me?  If you gave me flowers I'd have to consume them since you can only give them to me for my own condition.  A clone puts on new growth and the new growth at my house is not technically something you gave me.  It's something I let grow thru providing water and nutes and light.  When does it become mine all mine?

[Highlander]

My question is that if I'm your patient and your mine and we both have other patients, can you give me a clone for my med condition and can I cut off that clone after it's mine and then grow it for one of my patients or does anything that comes from you have to forever be only meds for me?  If you gave me flowers I'd have to consume them since you can only give them to me for my own condition.  A clone puts on new growth and the new growth at my house is not technically something you gave me.  It's something I let grow thru providing water and nutes and light.  When does it become mine all mine?

 

I don't think it is a question of ownership as much as a question of the intent of the transfer.  If I'm your CG and I give you a clone to grow, the intent behind my transfer was to alleviate your debilitating condition, and the intent behind you accepting the clone was for your debilitating condition.  Four weeks later when you have a bushy plant that needs to be trimmed, it seems that you should be able to take a cutting from your plant with the intent of transferring it to your patient for the purposes of alleviating his condition.  But "seems" isn't a good legal defense - just my two cents.

[phaquetoo]

My question is, can a patient, who already has a caregiver, also be a caregiver for someone else? Or, put another way, can a patient appoint another patient as their caregiver if that other patient has someone else as their caregiver? For example, I have my brother-in-law as my caregiver, I know that I cannot possess plants for myself. BUT, I have the capacity to grow for a fellow patient friend of mine. Can he appoint me as his caregiver and can I grow HIS 12 plants and provide HIM with 2.5 ounces as long as I keep his paperwork in my grow room and as long as none of the plants are technically mine or used by me? 

 

I have looked and looked for anything written in the law that would prevent such a thing but I can't find anything that specifically forbids this. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have been a pt/cg and I have a c.g,  I have been like this for many yrs, it is legal, and you dont have to worry about telling a judge anything unless you break the law!

 

I have read some of the replys here, and let me tell you they are full of schitt!  You can be a pt with a c.g and have a pt, you just cant possess your own plants ,,,,the c.g can have 2.5 oz for you, you can have 2.5 for you, and as a c.g you can most def have 12 plants for your pt and you can have 2.5 for your pt and your pt can have 2.5 oz for them selves!

 

If you dont break the law you dont have anything to worry about!

 

Tell everyone Jim said so!!!!

 

Peace

[phaquetoo]

It was a small part of a much larger conversation and i was so shocked that i didn't ask the proper questions to get a grasp on it.

I plan to bring it up again the next time we speak and get a definitive answer.

 

Im not sure why, but i dont want to mention the name just yet...let me get a better answer and i will fill you in.

 

What i was told is that the people who made the forms were not lawyers and accidentally left a loophole and that the loophole has been corrected on the new forms. I have not looked at the new forms yet to confirm this but i was advised to fill out a change form and get rid of my caregiver.

 

I dont want to say i have the final answer but I am a little reluctant to give advise that is contrary to what a lawyer would say.

 

I will be in contact soon and will get back to you.....

Fire your attny, Im not an attny but if you have probs I will come and help you rep your self, your attny dont know schit!

 

 

 

My question is that if I'm your patient and your mine and we both have other patients, can you give me a clone for my med condition and can I cut off that clone after it's mine and then grow it for one of my patients or does anything that comes from you have to forever be only meds for me?  If you gave me flowers I'd have to consume them since you can only give them to me for my own condition.  A clone puts on new growth and the new growth at my house is not technically something you gave me.  It's something I let grow thru providing water and nutes and light.  When does it become mine all mine?

Norby if you are a pt/cg and have a c.g anything your c.g gets to you can be givin/paid to your pt's, once it is in your hands it is yours, if you legaly got them from your c.g and you grow it, you can get it to your pt's!

 

If you people stay with in the ever changing rules you dont have anything to worry about, people that break the rules and are out to get rich or travel with their mm in the wrong places, or sell to people who are not in their chain will get busted and since we have a law and this is not agianst it, I guess some one transfering it to a non pt is going to get in legal trouble,

 

I think every pt should have a c.g and ever pt should be a c.g! and that is legal, and it will help people in the chains to get the meds they need!

 

Peace

 

Now I think after the op reads this it should be locked, alot of bad info in this thread! the good info is you can be a pt/cg with a c.g and more pts  upto 5!

Edited March 18, 2014 by phaquetoo

[Norby]

My fault, I thought I read that when a caregiver transfers anything to you it's for treating your own condition.  I thought that's why someone was thinking or did write up a form your patients could sign saying that CG is only transferring to treat patients condition every time they bought something from them to protect themselves.  I didn't know it was just for selling to people outside their 5.

[phaquetoo]

Norby, I only have 1 pt, now I was a pt 1st, I qualified to be a pt, so I got a c.g, I was not happy with first c.g (water under the bridge) I than took my grow rights back, so I was a pt grower, my lady qualified to be a pt, and I knew of a very good c.g at that time, and I realy didnt want to grow like more than 7 in dif stages at home, So I signed on with my now c.g, I gave him my grow rights, that left me with my pts 12 plant grow rights, and It also worked out If my c.g had problems and could not get me meds (which never happened) better safe than sorry!

 

My c.g has like 3 or 4 pts now, I know he used to have a full card, but he no longer does, and I dont know his pt's nor do I have anything to do with them!  This arraingment as far as im concerned is to cover my pt and me, and It is in my best interest that my c.g is able to keep up with his pts and him self, he is also a pt!

 

There is absolutely nothing against the law between me, my pt and my c.g, what happens else where in the chain that dont involve me, I dont have a clue nor want to! I make sure Im under my numbers in this house!  I guess the only thing im supposedly breaking the law on is having my hunting rifles around, im not a fellon and Im allowed to hunt and own guns!

 

Ok I suppose I will catch hell about my guns, but they have nothing to do with my grow and they are not anywhere near my grow!

 

Peace

[phaquetoo]

I would give up my pt card and my c.g card before I gave up my right to bare arms!

 

 

Peace

[GregS]

It was a small part of a much larger conversation and i was so shocked that i didn't ask the proper questions to get a grasp on it.

I plan to bring it up again the next time we speak and get a definitive answer.

 

Im not sure why, but i dont want to mention the name just yet...let me get a better answer and i will fill you in.

 

What i was told is that the people who made the forms were not lawyers and accidentally left a loophole and that the loophole has been corrected on the new forms. I have not looked at the new forms yet to confirm this but i was advised to fill out a change form and get rid of my caregiver.

 

I dont want to say i have the final answer but I am a little reluctant to give advise that is contrary to what a lawyer would say.

 

I will be in contact soon and will get back to you.....

Attorneys have been known  to be wrong in their assessments. They can be long on speculation and overlong on caution. Until you elaborate, and with clarity, my position will not change. The short answer is still yes.

[MiMedical]

I say the whole state should automatically connect all c.g's together off the get go.. Meds have to get around somehow.

 

I think it is such a question because you don't hear about it a lot, how else would a c.g acquire a clone w/o some sort of law being broke, what came first, chicken or the egg.

[Highlander]

I say the whole state should automatically connect all c.g's together off the get go.. Meds have to get around somehow.

 

I think it is such a question because you don't hear about it a lot, how else would a c.g acquire a clone w/o some sort of law being broke, what came first, chicken or the egg.

 

The problem is that noone ever claimed that no law was broken in the first place.   The law acknowledges that laws were already broken..and that we seek to make law-abiding citizens out of these law breakers.  That's one of the basic points of the law...that Michigan citizens no longer wish to make criminals out of growers.  If we try to construe that there could not be an original law-breaker, all we do is shoot ourselves in the foot. 

[MiMedical]

Great point highlander, I love it!

[Dr Gruber]

It's starting to feel like I came into an old argument. I apologize if this ruffles some feathers but I have no agenda in this either way.

Please don't shoot the messenger and i will try to clarify. I understood some parts wrong...

 

This is a paraphrased response from the lawyer...

 

'A caregiver can not grow 12 plants for him/herself and have another caregiver grow 12 plants for him/her as well. (Apparently some people have thought that was legal.)

Also, there is no caregiver to caregiver transactions that are currently protected by the MMMA. Only caregiver to patient'.

 

If there is a lawyer that says this isnt the case, then Im all ears but it would be foolish of me to go with anyones unprofessional opinion when so much could be at stake.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Dr Gruber

[Dr Gruber]

What you have quoted above is true, but not what we are discussing in this thread. We are discussing a patient/caregiver that grows plants for others, but has a caregiver to grow his own twelve plants. Or, a patient/caregiver that grows for his patients and himself who has a registered caregiver that does not possess plants.

 

Having both the patient and associated caregiver possessing twelve plants each is not allowed by section 4, that's true. Please see the original post to clarify this point.

 

Sorry, i must have misunderstood. i just reread the first post and cant believe i missed it.

I still think its important to note that the caregiver can not hold meds for you if he does not possess the plants because caregiver to caregiver is not covered.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Dr Gruber

[Dr Gruber]

It is not caregiver-to-caregiver if a person is the registered caregiver for a patient-caregiver. Maybe phaquetoo should explain it.

No...i understand very clearly what youre saying.

I still feel its smart to be abreast of all the laws pertaining to these types of situations. It only takes a minute to go from cargiver/patient to caregiver/caregiver. And in the eyes of leo  you/we are probably breaking the law anyway.

[MiMedical]

Patienta card will say,"authorized to posses plants (no)"

While the CG card will say,"authorized to posses plants (yes)"

 

So if Leo get invovled, just hand him both of the cards, he will call his chief, then just see what happens, I don't think it's illegal, but I do think a cop can do what he wants, legal or not...

 

 

That is only my opinion, I believe it should be legal, fill out the paper work and send it to the state, it should all be legal and legit.