Hydro(Salts) Vs Organic

[Restorium2]

I grow in dirt, hydro, and aero. Some strains grow better in dirt and some in liquid. If you haven't figured that one out, and are cutting down hydro, then it's obvious you just failed when you attempted hydro.

[+Malamute]

Different strains have been bred by human selection to excel in certain environments.  Keep the ones that do best in hydro and breed those. etc etc.

[Norby]

Better is subjective to a point.  Something that grows good in hydro doesn't mean it's better than something comparable grown in organic soil and nutes.  There is Chemdawg which isn't as good grown organically but i doubt it's better than a comparable strain grown organically for medical purposes.  If a high is all your looking for and your not worried about possible health effects from chemical fertilizers than it can be as good subjectively.  Personally I've never grown hydro technically because it didn't allow for organics and was too expensive to start when I was already getting better results than anything I ever tried that was hydro.  So I am biased but don't think the experimentation was necessary. I already use very little soil and mostly perlite and pretty much do hydro while watering myself.  It's all organic though and utilizes the beneficial bacteria present which I'm sure creates different compounds to enhance the quality of the plant. It's really looking at what was lacking in either system and taking the quick easy root growth in the soil medium by loosening it but allowing enough to still feed the beneficial bacteria without automating and having everything the same.  i don't fertilize till I see deficiencies and keep them just above that, mostly.  Some strains require very little so they never get deficiencies.  Either way they all need different moisture and different fertilizing schedules.  Maybe I'm talking out my arse since I'm really in the middle of the 2.

[trichcycler]

see, there you have it. I grow chemdawg in both hydro and organically in dirt. Both are phenomenal, both did well and thrived. The only differences noted over the years was faster veg in hydro. and a fuller expression in dirt. I've grown a bunch of "outdoor strains" indoors, and vice versa. I've grown "hydro" strain in dirt, and dirt strains in hydro.  Crappy hydro growing produces crappy hydro marijuana, and crappy organics makes crappy marijuana. There is no such thing as an indoor strain. Cannabis genetics have been grown outdoors for over 10000 years and more. They are all suitable for both. Even a giant sativa can be tamed indoors. Veg times, training, etc go along way.

 

All of my plants get the exact same feedings, at the same times, in the same rooms, all do well every time, with no issues. I never baby a plant with special treatment.

I "feed" my soil, and my plants always know just what to do. I get a fuller experience this way compared to feeding my plants directly (in hydro)

[pergamum362]

Ill say it again. No one way is better than another. Growers Of EQUAL SKILL, growing the same strain, in the same enviormental conditions, weather it be hydro or soil, no one but the growers will know the difference.

[trichcycler]

I tend to agree with all of this , and "whether"  would cinch it  

Ill say it again. No one way is better than another. Growers Of EQUAL SKILL, growing the same strain, in the same enviormental conditions, weather it be hydro or soil, no one but the growers will know the difference.

[trichcycler]

They're both a tight finish in my room for sure, except that veg time thing, but its minimal, and I don't even know why I mention it, just being honest.

An attentive grower will notice the slightest nuances in the grow room. Variances in temperature, humidity, new scents, plant progress-conditions-responses.

when the time comes they will have been intimately involved with the particular hydro vs soil experiments and carry the knowledge to the pipe. some cant tell the difference even still. the most notable difference is not in the finished product at all, its in the growing product. hydro=lighter color leaves, flexible "green" stalks......and lets not forget .......the big wet mess that needs mopping.

[+Malamute]

I'll take the Pepsi challenge anyday.... ;-)

[Highlander]

I'll take the Pepsi challenge anyday.... ;-)

 

Heh!

 

In my own humble experience, hydro meds grow faster and bigger...and soil meds have the edge when it comes "bag appeal." - at least with "hurried" meds.  I think it comes down to the finish.  You can take a hydro plant and flush it in pure water for 2-3 weeks and it finishes beautifully and burns clean.  This is harder to do with a soil-grown plant.  To some degree, this comes down to how long you're willing/able to flush.

[AbominableDro-Man]

I see. Though I feel I really have to mostly ignore bud, he sort of has the "this is the best and nothing else can ever possibly be close" type mindset and that's just not constructive..yeah...

 

All good things to note, I feel in the end I'll be growing in multiple different ways.

 

If I had the land to grow outside I'd certainly do so, so when I manage to get around to it, sure, I'll do that. But for right now, it's my hydro tent in the basement until the shed is complete. I'm pretty realistic, all of the methods have pro's and con's. I simply believe that with Hydro being more of a sci-ency/tech driven grow, it's far more so in my field.

 

It's all stuff that I'll learn with time I'm sure. Experience doesn't come from a book or reading a forum after all.

[trichcycler]

all this talk of "flushing" is boggling. The  hydro nutrient  systems I used came with a detailed chart of directions and specific ratios with a whole flowering/veg time table to follow. In flower each was tapered down during the 8 week flower period. There was no more "flushing" necessary except the last day or two feed of pure water, as anybody would do in dirt also.  By the time the program reached its 6th week there was barely a sat in the res. Flushing, Curing...these terms were used extensively with old school tobacco farming. To this day tobacco is fertilized to the day of harvest. the leaf is then "cured" so that harshness of the  nasty buildup of unspent carbs and nitrogen would be lessened. Nobody I know uses nutrients in the last several weeks of growing, organically or in hydro, it just makes sense. Nature works this way also, reducing the amount of bird waste, insect frass, along with every other resource towards the end of plant cycles. My recycled soil supports veg life without additional feed, only water. In flower I use my worm tea every third or so watering, and on the last third or so watering, I harvest. I've personally used cannabis that was (hydro) overfed too late and it is bad, bad for you, and a real turnoff. If directions are followed, there is no issue. A lot of this happens when growers start adding off the shelf  additives for erroneous "symptoms", like  yellow leaf in the middle of flower(duh)

I'm guessing the very point of a better tasting organic product is that the soil is bioavailable to the day of harvest, and all the goodness of natural broken down organic material in the soil makes my plants taste fuller, earthy, and just plain better, to me, and my patients. They finish with yellowing leaves and death.

[trichcycler]

beerdrops maybe

 

you'll love hydro. I suggest using a proven turn key system for your first show. You'll get to skip the whole learning curve, and maybe avoid a wet dry vac too. Hydro is a big turn on when its running. The growers I know who follow the nutrient directions, avoided gimmicks, built a quality controlled grow space, and paid attention, have repeatable results forever, until the power fails, or a girlfriend bumps a timer, drain plugs up, timer failure, light failure, ballast failure, water leak, blown fuse, burned out pump, but what that got to do with hydro, right? 

 

good luck, take pics, share here often.

peace

I see. Though I feel I really have to mostly ignore bud, he sort of has the "this is the best and nothing else can ever possibly be close" type mindset and that's just not constructive..yeah...

 

All good things to note, I feel in the end I'll be growing in multiple different ways.

 

If I had the land to grow outside I'd certainly do so, so when I manage to get around to it, sure, I'll do that. But for right now, it's my hydro tent in the basement until the shed is complete. I'm pretty realistic, all of the methods have pro's and con's. I simply believe that with Hydro being more of a sci-ency/tech driven grow, it's far more so in my field.

 

It's all stuff that I'll learn with time I'm sure. Experience doesn't come from a book or reading a forum after all.

[AbominableDro-Man]

Well the system I'm using is a current culture system. 12 buckets total but amendable to larger amounts but I just went with the 12 as that is my plant limit anyways. Using a 3/4 horsepower chiller and went with a Nutradip Trimeter for continuous monitoring. Picking it up tomorrow actually, super excited. coming with 5 gal buckets but I'm thinking of switching them out for 8 gallon buckets.

 

Once I get the tent set up and everything done setup wise I'll take some pics and post em'! I'll just have to wait for the tent and other such things in the meantime.  

 

Using a Silver Star 4XL 8" hood with a 1,000 Watt Hortilux HPS Super spec on a Solis Tek Matrix 1k ballast. This thing has a time built with the ballast and even has a controller, which I thought was nifty. Says if I ever get more of those same ballasts that I'll only ever need that one controller to operate them.

 

Going to be trying my luck with multiple strains, including both auto's and the general photo seeds as well, feminized of course. Once I figure out one of the normal strains I that I like I may be willing to do some cloning, but ultimately I like the idea of growing from new seeds as often as possible.  Grand total of 15 different strains.

[trichcycler]

I'm watching you!   I'm in love with the under current philosophy. good luck!

Well the system I'm using is a current culture system. 12 buckets total but amendable to larger amounts but I just went with the 12 as that is my plant limit anyways. Using a 3/4 horsepower chiller and went with a Nutradip Trimeter for continuous monitoring. Picking it up tomorrow actually, super excited. coming with 5 gal buckets but I'm thinking of switching them out for 8 gallon buckets.

 

Once I get the tent set up and everything done setup wise I'll take some pics and post em'! I'll just have to wait for the tent and other such things in the meantime.  

 

Using a Silver Star 4XL 8" hood with a 1,000 Watt Hortilux HPS Super spec on a Solis Tek Matrix 1k ballast. This thing has a time built with the ballast and even has a controller, which I thought was nifty. Says if I ever get more of those same ballasts that I'll only ever need that one controller to operate them.

 

Going to be trying my luck with multiple strains, including both auto's and the general photo seeds as well, feminized of course. Once I figure out one of the normal strains I that I like I may be willing to do some cloning, but ultimately I like the idea of growing from new seeds as often as possible.  Grand total of 15 different strains.

[Norby]

I don't understand these statements. Who says Chemdog isn't as good grown organically? I find that very hard to believe. I have never seen this in real life; it doesn't make sense.

What I read in the cannabible.  Chemdawg grown organically in soil is supposed to be just called Dawg?  The guy who wrote it is particualr enough in his writing of reviews I took he had some sense but he always says that when he samples stuff the organically grown is always better.  I figure he's traveled enough places to try different strains grown different ways that even if I don't have the same taste as he does that I'll give him the benefit since I've experienced the same with organics as opposed to chemical grows.  When I think chem I think hydro.

[Restorium2]

Actually, ChemD grows pretty much the same in dirt, liquid, and aero. It's not a high producer. The quality is exactly the same in dirt, hydro, or aero, if you have a good run in either. It's doesn't grow good at all outdoors in Michigan unless you grow it in a greenhouse type situation.

This is one of the strains that gets copied and faked a lot. So you are going to read a lot of false reporting on it.

[trichcycler]

fluff-

 

my chemdawg does fine outdoors in MI, right in back of the chicken coop, most years. I do veg it indoors of course, perpetually, so I can move a forced flower chem outdoors every few weeks if desired, starting soon I hope,  and begin harvesting one weekly when they finish. They don't produce much, inside, outside, topped, trained, but I bet a scrog'd long time veg would cure that.

This is what I'm always saying. every person, every grower, every garden, every experience, every effect...could be different. When it does happen, know it happened to you, and maybe even to many, but it aint the rule. 

 

Pure Indica's make me jittery, and I cannot sleep. Some say they help them sleep. Pure Sativas make my patient freak out with anxiety, while another patient using the sativa no longer needs to take antidepressants and is pain free now. its crazy. I await the day when this plant and its pure effects are honestly quantified and published without bias. or maybe not, I almost got what I need to know figured out anyways, as many growers have.

[Wild Bill]

I've grown both outside and hydro inside. Hydro primarily because I don't like buckets of dirt in my house and the pest problems they tend to bring. You still get mites and gnats occasionally but not as often.

 

Outside grows are great for size, you can regularly get Christmas trees with little to no effort. We used to plant them in the spring, throw a little rose food around them and not come back til fall.

 

Outdoors is also great because it's essentially free, just nature doing it's job. You of course have the problems of bugs and can risk losing big buds to rot if you get a rainy spell just before harvest.

 

I've never noticed much difference in quality of product either in flavor or potency. Maybe a tad stronger in hydro but not enough to make a difference.

 

Another reason I don't grow outside is because of where I live, too many variables in the city.

[AbominableDro-Man]

If I put a couple of plants outside I'm going to have to fence the buggers off. The deer in the area are terrible, terrible creatures that enjoy eating....everything.

Edited March 23, 2014 by AbominableDro-Man

[AbominableDro-Man]

I had heard that hydro plants in coco require more of a cal-mag supplement, I guess it has something to do with the coco leeching from the plant a little?

[AbominableDro-Man]

 I await the day when this plant and its pure effects are honestly quantified and published without bias.

I really do too, however, I think it'll be really difficult to pin various strains down. I feel that different strains affect different people differently. A Hindu Kush that made me feel really laid back made my significantly older uncle feel energetic for some odd reason.

[beourbud]

Theres alot of buyers remorse with hydro cus there lazy or didnt learn. Lots of sub par for the sAme reason. If i was comfortable leaving for more than 2 days with dro, id still run it. But im telling you, put it side by side, growers of equal skill, no one would know but the growers. But you cAn make me a believer. Ill be at the expo.

Well there are some new believers in GR. The expo was pretty good. Nice to see all the young entrepreneurs.

 

So far 100% of patients surveyed prefer SUn Grown Meds over hydro. most of our students are dropping hydro for Sun Grown due to the ease, cost and superior quality Organicmeds....just saying.

 

What only 3 here have supported hydro because, well they are invested up to their eyeballs in it.

Sun Grown..(Greenhouse) in Organic Soil is without a doubt superior Meds to hydro.

 

The proof is in the patients testimonials,,, I am just reporting the facts.

 

Hydro cost to much , pain in the donkey and the Meds are subpar. I agree not sure which veg faster, don't care...but quality does matter and Sun Grown in a greenhouse in Organic soil is The Gold Standard...regardless of strain. As a matter of fact strain morphology is different in Sun Grown vs hydro..even the plant knows the difference and it didn't go to school.

The Sun is not just another light bulb.

 

The problem is underexposure, few people have had it since MJ grows had to go underground.

That is changing, we are cranking out Orgasmic Farmers to spread the Love. We would like to see Sun Grown Orgasmics at @ $2.00 a gram. Med prices need to come down and quality needs to improve, we are working on it!

 

After this years harvest a lot more patients are going to getting True Organic Meds, Sun Grown Naturally!

 

Hydroponic, cold fusion..touted in school but never did pan out ..

From the great philosopher Annie.....The Sun will come out tomorrow, bet your bottom dollar!

Edited March 23, 2014 by beourbud

[trichcycler]

hydro nutrients + organic substrate= better living quarters for pests.

basal salts kill organic medium beasties.

What differences, if any, have people seen for hydro with an organic medium, i.e. coco or soilless, rather than roots suspended in water or inert medium like clay balls or perlite?

[Norby]

Well there are some new believers in GR. The expo was pretty good. Nice to see all the young entrepreneurs.

 

So far 100% of patients surveyed prefer SUn Grown Meds over hydro. most of our students are dropping hydro for Sun Grown due to the ease, cost and superior quality Organicmeds....just saying.

 

What only 3 here have supported hydro because, well they are invested up to their eyeballs in it.

Sun Grown..(Greenhouse) in Organic Soil is without a doubt superior Meds to hydro.

 

The proof is in the patients testimonials,,, I am just reporting the facts.

 

Hydro cost to much , pain in the donkey and the Meds are subpar. I agree not sure which veg faster, don't care...but quality does matter and Sun Grown in a greenhouse in Organic soil is The Gold Standard...regardless of strain. As a matter of fact strain morphology is different in Sun Grown vs hydro..even the plant knows the difference and it didn't go to school.

The Sun is not just another light bulb.

 

The problem is underexposure, few people have had it since MJ grows had to go underground.

That is changing, we are cranking out Orgasmic Farmers to spread the Love. We would like to see Sun Grown Orgasmics at @ $2.00 a gram. Med prices need to come down and quality needs to improve, we are working on it!

 

After this years harvest a lot more patients are going to getting True Organic Meds, Sun Grown Naturally!

 

Hydroponic, cold fusion..touted in school but never did pan out ..

From the great philosopher Annie.....The Sun will come out tomorrow, bet your bottom dollar!

Your right, sun grown meds produce something called hard growth where the cell walls thicken and the vegetative matter is more dense than grown under artificial light.  in artificial light plants produce soft growth.  Generally the smoke isn't as harsh, strain for strain in an indoor grow.  Which is why no curing is needed on indoor grown.

I'd like to see and try the samples passed out to believe it. Anything I've had that was grown outdoor that comes down around the same time tastes like the goldenrod and aster pollen that was shed about finishing time.  The smoke is harsher and everyone I know that has sampled it preferred the indoor, strain for strain.  Maybe they just couldn't grow as well indoors.  Maybe it was just too bad outside for them to finish well?  I'd put my indoor against any outdoor any day.  Except Russian Rocket Fuel.  It just didn't produce the same hi as it did outdoors.

 

Personally, I think that it's strain dependent and subjective on whether they do better indoors or out.  They found that people who's parents made dry turkey for Thanksgiving while growing up preferred dry turkey over juicy turkey as adults.  May depend on what your accustomed to.  Good for you asking your patients what they prefer and providing it to them.  Did you give them a price difference when you asked them what they preferred?

[trichcycler]

I don't recall mentioning disease ,or root rot. Only pest housing.

I saw root rot once in a lifetime, while using a bottled organic nutrient(pura vida) in a flood drain hydro system. I don't blame the nutes, or the hydroton rocks they were in. definitely wasn't getting the 02 they needed, looked like mud at the bottom of the pot. so that is inline with your shared experience. I never had any issue with the rocks though when using salts, and would use them preferable next time. I've used sand, dirt, promix, pea gravel, wood chips, Styrofoam, plastic shreds, bioballs/perlite, and even sponges ! I chose the hydroton as my best option. I bet most anything that breathes and drains is suitable including dirt

While I do realize that salts kill microflora, the increased susceptibility to disease you mention for organic substrates

 

 

is both non-intuitive for me, and not reflective of the experience of Birmingham Compassion club members. I have very rarely seen root zone issues with any organic medium-based hydro system, but it seems root issues are fairly routine for bubblers and hydroton, perhaps due to the difficulty of temperature control of the solution?