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advanced premium tax credits,,   When i was going to apply   the guy on the phone never even told me about this he said i  had to pay 450 bucks a month,,  Maybe we make too much money for the credit  but still cant pay that amount every month with a 6000 out of pocket...

 

Wonder how the government is going to pay for the  advanced premium tax credits..  maybe printing up more money,  I have an idea  end the drug war,.

Edited by cristinew
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There is no one who will die without having first to use the medical establishment. Waiting till one is blindsided and has to use it is stupid. Health care has become a part of the common good, rather than a commodity that is intended to be exploited. The cost of health care bankrupted me, taking my savings, credit, and retirement down with it. The ACA is intended to prevent that. I do not own a home, a bike, or much of anything.

 

Another point is that it remains to bring the costs down. We Americans are being taken for a ride. There are ways, if people with interests in making unfair and vast amounts of money off our misery are put in their place.

 

Edited by GregS
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The beauty (or lack of it) in Obamacare is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Please notice those who believe they benefit from it will support it.

 

Those who don't, won't.

 

What everyone seems to ignore is the longer term implications of another underfunded program beset with rapidly rising costs.

 

Is it affordable in the long term?

 

The CBO cost projections keep rising. Last one I saw had the cost of ten-years of O-Care at 2.5 trillion dollars up from the original 100 billion/year estimate.

 

The current information available as of a recent Presidential statement is six million have now signed up for the program.

 

Ignoring those five-or-six million who have lost their insurance the cost of the program at present runs between 100 (the original estimate) to 250 billion (the most recent CBO estimate) per year and has resulted in six million newly minted insured.

 

Or between $16,000 to $40,000/year per person for the per-capita cost of O-care. Heck, the poverty level is only $11,000 according to the Feds. Consider that for a bit. The Feds spend $15,000/year each, the state another $5000, and the county and cities another $3000 or so. Total government spending per-capita is more than twice the poverty level.

 

In the past ten years the per-capita net worth of the average American has shrunk from $300,000/each to $225,000 each. Although the per-capita decline has slowed in the past few years as the economy 'recovers', the unfunded liabilities will be reversing that trend soon enough.

 

Meanwhile the only reason we are able to fund the current levels of spending is the interest rates on the Federal debt  is so low. That is due in no small part to our blessed status as the owner of the world's reserve currency, the US dollar.

 

Many don't understand just how important the dollar is to the strength of our country. Or how many nations including that wonderful worker's paradise that just annexed the Crimea would love to see the dollar lose its exalted position.

I doubt anyone here saw the recent news the BOE and PBOC have just agreed to direct swaps between the British Pound and Chinese Yuan. Yikes, first Russia and now the Chinese and British are beginning to move past the dollars as the currency for international settlements.

 

Until or unless we start looking beyond 'what's good for me' and start thinking about what the future will be for our descendants and their progeny we're doomed to a continue loss of wealth and eventual bankruptcy.

 

Bad for the country, bad for a world awash with some really unpleasantly bad people.

 

Again, might be good for some but chronic government overspending and unfunded liabilities do not lend themselves to a prosperous American future.

Edited by outsideinthecold
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I think that everyone should be able to have affordable health care but it should be voluntary, The government has no business telling anyone that they have to buy any particular product no matter what it is.

 

No its not. The progrAm only works if younger heAlthier adults sign up and dont use there coverAge. That isnt happening for the reasons i stated Above. All the program is trying to do is move the burden from one set of people to another.

 

That's how this scam works. It is dependent on collecting premiums from the young and healthy, who don't use insurance as often, to help pay for the rest. Just like Social Security.

 

Wonder how the government is going to pay for the  advanced premium tax credits..  maybe printing up more money,

 

No, the Federal Reserve Bank (which is a private bank and not affiliated with the Federal government in any way) will print more money and loan it to the government, charging interest and thereby raising the national debt. That's how the money scam works.

 

(Does anybody really think that all that debt goes to pay for welfare moms and school lunches?)

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I think that everyone should be able to have affordable health care but it should be voluntary, The government has no business telling anyone that they have to buy any particular product no matter what it is.

 

 

That's how this scam works. It is dependent on collecting premiums from the young and healthy, who don't use insurance as often, to help pay for the rest. Just like Social Security.

 

 

No, the Federal Reserve Bank (which is a private bank and not affiliated with the Federal government in any way) will print more money and loan it to the government, charging interest and thereby raising the national debt. That's how the money scam works.

 

(Does anybody really think that all that debt goes to pay for welfare moms and school lunches?)

You have to get auto insurance. People with less risk and people with more risk, in a pool to cover loss when it occurs is not a scam, it's just how insurance works.

People not having insurance because they just want to use the money for fun things, and then getting hurt and not wanting to pay the health bills, or not affording the health bills, is just wrong, and it had to end sometime. That time is now.

If you keep wanting to say that it is wrong for younger folks to pay for insurance because the premuims pay for older folks health care then you are creating a war between the old and young. Do you really want that?

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You have to get auto insurance.    Just a few years ago  Wisconsin you did not have to buy it,    Insurance lobbies  put an end to that,

So you would want to be run down by some broke arse driving without insurance and have no way to help pay for the damages you incurred? Always try to see the practical side of things. People need to have insurance.
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Its not a war. I worked for it, it should be mine. Making someone else pay for another persons problems is not a fix, its another problem. You have to get car insurance if you want to drive. Its not that way in every state but driving is a privilege. Its not mandatory to drive. Now with the act, i have to buy health insurance, great i got health insurance, since i could barely afford a 200 dollar a month premium, i now need to go to the doctors but wait i still cant because i still need to pay 6-7 k before my insurance actually covers anything. But wait, theres gov subsidies to help, not for me. My middle class income is to much to get any of those, but wait the lazy smuck down the street can use his, he coasted along, has no student loans or really any other bills, just hangs out all day, he gets subsidies from uncle sam or hell he probably qualifies for medicaid, lets make sure his lazy donkey gets help, or the old guy on the other side of the bridge, he never did anything with his life so he cant pay for his health problems, lets make the newest generation pay for his lack of accomplishment, all the while putting our country further and further into debt. Its at least helping some people right now, screw everyone else. This act does nothing to bring the actual cost of care down, nothing.

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Its not a war. I worked for it, it should be mine. Making someone else pay for another persons problems is not a fix, its another problem. You have to get car insurance if you want to drive. Its not that way in every state but driving is a privilege. Its not mandatory to drive. Now with the act, i have to buy health insurance, great i got health insurance, since i could barely afford a 200 dollar a month premium, i now need to go to the doctors but wait i still cant because i still need to pay 6-7 k before my insurance actually covers anything. But wait, theres gov subsidies to help, not for me. My middle class income is to much to get any of those, but wait the lazy smuck down the street can use his, he coasted along, has no student loans or really any other bills, just hangs out all day, he gets subsidies from uncle sam or hell he probably qualifies for medicaid, lets make sure his lazy donkey gets help, or the old guy on the other side of the bridge, he never did anything with his life so he cant pay for his health problems, lets make the newest generation pay for his lack of accomplishment, all the while putting our country further and further into debt. Its at least helping some people right now, screw everyone else. This act does nothing to bring the actual cost of care down, nothing.

You need to quit worrying about your imaginary guy down the street. That's what is making you angry, and probably FOX NEWS.
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You have to get auto insurance. People with less risk and people with more risk, in a pool to cover loss when it occurs is not a scam, it's just how insurance works.

People not having insurance because they just want to use the money for fun things, and then getting hurt and not wanting to pay the health bills, or not affording the health bills, is just wrong, and it had to end sometime. That time is now.

If you keep wanting to say that it is wrong for younger folks to pay for insurance because the premuims pay for older folks health care then you are creating a war between the old and young. Do you really want that?

 

I don't think car insurance should be mandatory either. Or drivers licenses for that matter. But that's just me.

 

When I had to give up my health insurance it was to buy "fun things" like food and shelter.

 

My insurance premiums went up by $20 to $40 dollars every month no matter what. I dropped coverage for prescriptions,office calls etc and it went up even more than before I dropped coverage.

 

It became cost ineffective to keep paying for it. It was cheaper to just pay the bills out of pocket.

 

When it became more than my house payment I dropped it and decided to file bankruptcy if anything catastrophic occurred. Not because I was trying to get free health care but because I couldn't afford paying $700 + every month for something that would only pay a percentage of the bills if I went in the hospital.

 

If I stop saying that it is wrong for younger folks to pay for older folks health care will it cease to be true?

Why should anyone be forced to pay anything for someone else? Why should the young and old go to war with each other when the government is responsible for the situation?

 

I'm not saying not to buy it I'm just saying if you don't want insurance you shouldn't be forced to buy it but if you opt out you should be prepared to face the consequences. I'd personally like to opt out of government entirely.

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The problem with opting out is that for some reason, even people that do not have health insurance end up in the hospitals and the taxpayers already pay for them with uncompensated care costs or tax write offs for bankruptcy'd debts..  That money is now going to subsidies to help people buy insurance instead.

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Maximum % of income you have to pay for the premium, if eligible for a subsidy: 9.5% 
(before accounting for a tobacco surcharge, if applicable) Health Insurance premium in 2014 (for a silver plan, before tax credit): $6,559 per year 
In most states, insurers can charge a tobacco surcharge of up to 50% of your total premium before the tax credit. The tax credit cannot be applied to the tobacco surcharge. You could receive a government tax credit subsidy of up to: $2,331 per year
(which covers 36% of the overall premium) Amount you pay for the premium: $4,228 per year
(which equals 9.5% of your household income and covers 64% of the overall premium

 

That is a person 50 years of age, making  44 grand  just about 10 percent of your take home going for Insurance, Sliver plans are not the best ,

Edited by cristinew
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Noone ever said healthcare was cheap. :-) 

 

And many of these arguments are against Insurance in general and creating risk pools than it is about this specific program. 

 

I agree, healthcare is outrageously expensive in this country and insurance costs have tripled in the last 20 years.  No doubt  about it.

 

This program is designed to get as many people on insurance and lower the cost acceleration that has been occurring for a long long time now.

 

Best answer? No. Not by any means.  But it is better. 

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Yah, i dont want to have to pay 200 bucks to have something just to pay another 6k or 1500 plus 20% of cost in my case, to probably never use it, at least not for a good 10 years. I make close to that amount but the good majority is already obligated to go elsewhere. My student loans alone are 400 plus dollars a month. I never planned on having healthcare unless through my employer until i was over 30, so yah im a little ticked off. Next year i will have to include myself into the mix so the bill will go even higher.

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The thing is, I get not having the money,... even $200/month.  Times are tough and healthcare is expensive as hell and bankruptcy is paid for by taxpayers in tax writeoffs to the creditors. 

 

 But hey,.. I was in ICU like 2 years ago for 22 hours and the bill was tens of thousands of dollars. 

 

 So yea,... who th ehell can afford healthcare is an argument I understand, but having healthcare is now a personal responsibility.

 

 Trust me, I can go both ways on this issue,... but in the end, even though I do not like the idea of private insurers skimming the money pool,  it is better than what we had and I would be glad to see an across theboard tax like medicare tax and go single payer to lower costs, overhead and wasted money.

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