A Couple O' Soil Questions

[AbominableDro-Man]

Well I'm going to be running a couple of plants in soil next to the ones I do in my undercurrent system just as a supplemental type thing. My question is in regards to....well, growing in dirt as a whole?

 

I'm considering using a mix of Promix and Happy frog (not sure which one) but I'm unsure if anything else needs to be added (chime in here grass, I know you know these things)

 

Wall of questions:

 

Do I change the soil at any time?

How am I suppose to feed these girls? Am I just suppose to water it, or do I add nutrients/supplements and the like?

 

 

I'm pretty much starting at square one with dirt/soil mixes, it/they is/are my absolutely most unfamiliar grow medium, so dump some info here if you have some tips. 

[trichcycler]

I use both happy frog and promix, about 60/40.

I don't change the dirt out.

 

A really good outdoor fertilizer is made by Botanicare, very similar to the spikes. It comes in stinky pellets, so be sure to protect your area form stinky loving digging paws. No other supplements will be needed, just follow the directions. After rooted outdoors most of its watering needs will be covered. You should water when the sol is dry though once in awhile. Rain wont hurt the bud, as long as it stops, and sunny's up. I put an opaque cover over mine to protect it from the rain fall and mold risks. I used chicken/rabbit poop as my outdoor ferts with good results. So good I wish I could use the same indoors. I have, but fresh outdoor poop comes with indoor issues sometimes. If you have any automatic beans chuck them out there too. You wont regret the high cbd early finish while impatiently awaiting your diamonds on the other.

 

good luck, outdoors is fun, near free, and makes happy plants. I saw picbooks post about your outdoor plants being very different than if grown indoors. He stated it well, and is right. Both are great, but the differences are strange. I'm betting the plant prefers to be outdoors myself.   I've "grounded" half of my plants in the flower room for 3 years, to observe the differences, and they are obvious. Don't ask me for an explanation, except earth electrical messages.....blah, blah, metaphysical munch, dunno. but they will all be grounded this year. It didn't make them closer to the outdoor produce, but they are more outdoor like now.

[AbominableDro-Man]

Well in this particular post I was meaning more of a plant or two in a pot of dirt/soil inside of the tent with my undercurrent system, there's enough room to toss one in and have it be perfectly fine.

 

So I'll be growing In hydro (UC), Soil, and outside (when it's time to transfer.)

Edited April 13, 2014 by AbominableDro-Man

[trichcycler]

same applies. but botanicare is a bit smelly, I'd opt for the organic spikes. I loved and miss growing in tents, when I grew in tents, I longed for rooms....go figure

tehe, I missed the "undercurrent " mention in the first post, sorry.

Well in this particular post I was meaning more of a plant or two in a pot of dirt/soil inside of the tent with my undercurrent system, there's enough room to toss one in and have it be perfectly fine.

Edited April 13, 2014 by grassmatch

[AbominableDro-Man]

For the 60/40, is the HappyFrog the 60 and the Promix the 40, or the other way around? Don't have to worry about adding perlite or anything like that to it? 

[pergamum362]

I would stick em in sum promix or sunshine mix4 and fees like a dro plant.

[trichcycler]

"happy(60) frog and promix,(40) about 60/40."  or , when I'm rushing, I use my slightly larger hand to scoop in the happy frog, and my slightly smaller hand for the promix. Often ending in a 50/50 or even an eyeballed 70/30......I mix till it drains the way I like....  I add nothing but water until inducing flower.

For the 60/40, is the HappyFrog the 60 and the Promix the 40, or the other way around? Don't have to worry about adding perlite or anything like that to it? 

[AbominableDro-Man]

"happy(60) frog and promix,(40) about 60/40."  or , when I'm rushing, I use my slightly larger hand to scoop in the happy frog, and my slightly smaller hand for the promix. Often ending in a 50/50 or even an eyeballed 70/30......I mix till it drains the way I like....  I add nothing but water until inducing flower.

Spectacular, thank you very much for the info. I went out today and bought a bale of the Promix (orange) and a big ol' bag of Happy Frog just so I could toss a soil plant into the tent to grow next to the hydro ones. Then, I'll be able to say that I've grown in soil! haha

 

Now, do you not add anything because it doesn't need anything added, or for some other reason? Could adding things help? More so, will adding Micro/Bloom in small amounts harm it?

Edited April 17, 2014 by AbominableDro-Man

[trichcycler]

I veg to around 18 inches top, but with recycled soil, saturated with worm castings and recomposted. My vegging girls don't need additional fertilizer to grow and do well, but my flowering plant require supplemental feed like...if you want spectacular results give them only organic food like advanced nutrients mother earth tea only, or some fertilizer spikes like jobes organic, as much as you want, through, veg and flower. Its a MUST in flower for those complex demands the flowering plant roots need.

[AbominableDro-Man]

So if I were to opt out of using the Jobes, could I use a feeding sched using organic nutes? I want to be right in there hands on as much as possible, in there playing with the plants as much as possible.

Edited April 17, 2014 by AbominableDro-Man

[trichcycler]

yep, choose an organic line, and follow directions, they all rock in this dirt combo. you're gonna get the win man, and put your wet/dry vac back in the garage !

[AbominableDro-Man]

yep, choose an organic line, and follow directions, they all rock in this dirt combo. you're gonna get the win man, and put your wet/dry vac back in the garage !

Maybe haha, or out into the shed once I get that thing done. It's a 13 by 17, turning it into a cleanroom for my plants. Should be enough room to get decently sized ones but stay within my plant count.

[pergamum362]

Sorry to but in but happy frog or fox farms soil in general is garbage for cannabis, imo. Id like to ask grass why you mix the two tho? There completly different mediums with different ph needs.

[trichcycler]

different mediums? different ph needs? garbage for cannabis?  you my be reading the wrong forums man. If you failed using this combo I suggest looking into your other garden habits to blame

. How can your statements be true with so many years of my success using it, not to mention the grow store sales of the items? Some folks like Ford, some like Chevy.......some stick "Fords Suck" on their bumpers, and some people voted Kwame in twice, so go figure.

 

 The combination of the two are a near perfect substrate for most garden varieties. I threw my ph pen in the garbage years ago when I began organically growing. NO chems go into my pots. ph up or down would kill my beneficia herds and pizz off my worms, so I figure its probably not good for cannabis either. I checked and double checked run off, water in, food in, etc, only to laugh at city folks and their city water. I use pure fresh tested spring water. My garden has its own dedicated water supply, coming right up out of the veg room floor.

 

I mix the two to fluff the happy frog with the peat/perlite mix is all. The HF will compress and limit oxygen exchange, to my dismay. Plant will grow fine with just the hf, but better with the mix, for me.

[Restorium2]

Sorry to but in but happy frog or fox farms soil in general is garbage for cannabis, imo. Id like to ask grass why you mix the two tho? There completly different mediums with different ph needs.

He's using those fertilizer spikes so his needs are different then those of us that fertilize directly in a metered way. In other words, promix alone would be a little weak at the start up.

[trichcycler]

promix alone would fail soon in veg.

happy frog alone fails in the flowering stage.

 

Happy Frog Ingredients: Composted forest humus, sphagnum peat moss, perlite, earthworm castings, bat guano, humic acid (derived from Leonardite), oyster shell and dolomite lime (for pH adjustment).

 

 

Pro Mix Ingredients

• Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss
  (75-85% by volume)
• Perlite - horticultural grade
• Vermiculite-horticultural grade

• Dolomitic and Calcitic limestone
  (pH adjuster)
• Wetting Agent
• Mycorrhizae – endomycorrhizal innoculum
  (Glomus intraradices)

 

Fox Farm Ocean Forest Ingredients: Composted forest humus, sphagnum peat moss, Pacific Northwest sea-going fish, crab meal, shrimp meal, earthworm castings, vermicultural compost, sandy loam, perlite, fossilized bat guano, granite dust, Norwegian kelp meal and oyster shell.

 

 

 Root Organics · Ingredients: Coarse peat, coco fiber, compost, perlite, pumice, worm castings, bat guano, fish bone meal, soybean meal, feather meal, and kelp meal.

 

Sunshine#4 Ingredients: Made from sustainably harvested Canadian Sphagnum peat moss, horticultural perlite and coir (a by-product of the coconut industry). Dolomitic lime, multiple strains of mycorrhizae and an organic wetting agent.

 

 

 

I've used each one of these and can honestly say they all rock it in the garden. Realistic expectations, proper applications, accurate controls, and fresh pure water go a long way in making these the top indoor soils of all time for cannabis growers. 

[AbominableDro-Man]

When mixing the Promix/HF, I'm mixing it in a large tub for convenience, am I suppose to wet this down at all? The promix seems a tad dry as a whole in comparison to the HF bag...maybe that's because it came in more of a bale than a bag...

[Restorium2]

When mixing the Promix/HF, I'm mixing it in a large tub for convenience, am I suppose to wet this down at all? The promix seems a tad dry as a whole in comparison to the HF bag...maybe that's because it came in more of a bale than a bag...

Yes, wet it down until it's very wet to the touch. Then let it set for a day or two in a warm place. If I'm transplanting then I mix nutes with the water. If starting tiny clones/seedlings I just add water. Pro mix has no nutes. These other types of soils have nutes. I don't like using soil that has nutes added. I don't like to guess about what is in there. Edited April 17, 2014 by Restorium2

[trichcycler]

I agree with pre wetting , for the composting value.

however I do not believe that happy frog has any "nutes" available to plants, until after fungal/ biological processes have naturally broken down the organic materials into useable mineral salts that the plant can uptake. Adding "nutrients" to an organic soil grow is counter productive to the organic approach, but the soil will work well as a substrate to hold air and moisture while feeding nutrients.

Yes, wet it down until it's very wet to the touch. Then let it set for a day or two in a warm place. If I'm transplanting then I mix nutes with the water. If starting tiny clones/seedlings I just add water. Pro mix has no nutes. These other types of soils have nutes. I don't like using soil that has nutes added. I don't like to guess about what is in there.

[Restorium2]

You can buy 100% organic, or organic based, concentrated nutrients for soil grows.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Restorium2

[trichcycler]

pro mix and hf contain different materials, the reason why they may look and act differently. I only use it to aerate the HF. I have used perlite and other materials too, and promix outperforms them for me. Not bigger plants, or better ones, but overall scores for handling, cost, recyclability, health hazards, storage and ease of use. 

I use a dedicated cement mixer  for the chore, with a few full bins outside of the grow room, but enclosed in the building. The mixer is always full of composted recycled dirt at the ready.

Recall I only need to mix new pro/happy every couple years. I recycle so its already broke down, mixed and worm'd and ready to use. I mix the pure castings with dried recycled material to fill pots. I bought three bales of promix and 8 bags of happy frog 3 yrs ago for instance, pretty much a full garden year round. I still have one unopened bag of pro mix, one almost gone, and three new bags of HF remaining. I do use pure HF for clones, seedlings, and cultures after they harden in rockwool.

[trichcycler]

google those "nutrients" sir, to find items like organic fish emulsion(plants cant eat dead fish). or show me organic acids added to a bottle?  you probably are right, but I never saw things in those bottles that plants could eat, until broken down. like these;

 

About Root's Nutrients

Roots organics are unique in their powerful organic blends. Utilizing optimized raw organic ingredients allows roots to interact perfectly with beneficial organisms, creating a string and rich symbiotic network at the root level and optimal nutrient uptake from roots to tips.

 

but I do see  Pura Vida Ingredients: Seaweed powder, kelp extracts, alfalfa, molasses, potassium sulfate, epsom salt, solubar, copper sulfate, iron sulfate, manganese sulfate and zinc sulfate. Some of which could be uptaken by plants in their pure form, with others like alfalfa molasses, kelp and seaweed.

 

note that pura vida does not say they are a certified organic grow fertilizer even though its called pura vida organics. Copper sulfate is an algaecide, bactericide, and fungicide. copper sulphate is a wettable form of copper made by treating copper oxide w/ sulfuric acid. yummy !! and it kills worms and bees and beneficial organisms. organic seems to be taking on new meanings by the minute.

You can buy 100% organic, or organic based, concentrated nutrients for soil grows.

[pergamum362]

Was just curious. Giving my opinion and asking a legitimate question.

[mibrains]

you like the dedicated cement mixer grass?

 

i have been kinda sorta looking for one.. seems like the most efficient way to water and aerate the soil.

 

i am still sold on the KISS mix and R/O water from beginning to end.. i used to use a kiddy pool to mix soil but soon found it was more of a PITA.. then i mounted a wheelbarrow on a floor trolley and that has been working fairly well.. for the past 3-4 months i have been envisioning a dedicated mixer so i can add water and mix regularly...  the only one i managed to look at so far this spring in stock was at lowes and seemed way too small for the task... as it is i can only mix a 1/2 bale at a time in the wheelbarrow.. i would love to figure out a solid mixing container system... i have seen several compost mixing drums but they all have aeration holes and i want to water my soil and mix it indoors so holes are counterproductive to my needs...

[trichcycler]

I use the mixer since 2009 for this and I love it. yep, could be bigger. half bale is about right. Its the blue one form lowes also.  I used a kiddie pool before that, with fun like yours.