Dispensary Owner Shocks Community By Offering Up A 5 Nanogram/8 Nanogram Limits For Drugged Driving During Committee Hearing About Saliva Tests

[bobandtorey]

LANSING- Will Michigan impose a brand-new set of rules to establish a blood-level limit on THC, similar to a blood alcohol content level, to catch people driving under the influence of marijuana? They will, if dispensary owner Ben Horner from Flint has his way.

Horner stunned the medical marijuana advocates in attendance during the Michigan House Judiciary Committee meeting Thursday, April 17 when he volunteered the program to state legislators. He repeated the call for the program during a broadcast of the Planet Green Trees Internet Radio Show (PGT) later that same day. For a more thorough report on that Committee meeting please see the accompanying article. 

Horner described a scheme in which those patients currently enrolled in the Michigan Medical Marihuana Program would be legally allowed to drive an automobile with up to 8 nanograms of THC per liter of blood, and non-patients would be given a tolerance level of 5 nanograms of THC.

Horner was announced in Committee as the leader of the Cannabis Stakeholder’s Group and was accompanied at the hearing by Lansing lobbyist Bill Zaagman. He offered the program during debate on a package of bills that proposes to establish a roadside saliva test to check automobile drivers for the presence of THC and other Schedule 1 drugs. Marijuana advocates had gathered for the House committee meeting to challenge the science of saliva testing and to dispute the presumption that any amount of THC in a driver’s blood stream constitutes impairment.

No legislator has suggested the nanogram driving limit; it was not part of the package of bills being debated; Horner’s suggestion took the assembled advocates- and legislators- by surprise.

“I suggested five nanograms per liter of blood for non-patients and eight nanograms of active THC per liter of blood for patients,” Horner repeated during the PGT broadcast. When questioned by the show host, Horner amended his statement to say, “I proposed that if you did not remove the saliva test for medical marijuana patients that you should put some kind of standard in there… just because you have some active THC in your system doesn’t mean that you are under the influence.”

Even when presented with new information confirming that medical marijuana patients would be exempted from taking the roadside saliva tests, Horner stuck to his THC blood testing plan. “I still think that kind of language should be in there,” he affirmed. “It’s the standard in other states that have passed drugged driving laws… I did hear from one of the staff’s aides that they did like the concept of the five nanogram limit and they were going to review that as well.”

The unexpected request for the new program came from a man who is deeply invested in the Michigan medical marijuana community. As owner of what is arguable Flint’s most successful marijuana dispensary, Michigan Organic Solutions, Horner also publishes the MMM Report, a monthly magazine for the medical marijuana community that is distributed for free and can be found in industry-related retail operations throughout the state. Horner is also known for creating large convention-style expos that feature competitions for cannabis growers and on-site marijuana patient certification services, most notably in Grand Rapids and Ann Arbor.

Marijuana community members responded to Horner’s blood test request with skepticism. PGT host Michael Komorn asked, “Did you talk to any lawyers or anyone who is in the scientific community that supported that as a per se amount?”

“We reviewed the arguments and the debates that were set in Colorado regarding the subject,” Horner replied, but did not explain who the ‘we’ included. Horner and the on-air staff discussed marijuana use and driving, how long THC stays active in the body and at what levels. He stated that a heavy smoker’s nanogram levels would drop to “3 or 2″ within five or six hours of smoking cannabis. When challenged by PGT staff to clarify some of his remarks Horner admitted during the segment that some of his statements had been incorrect, but he remained committed to the concept of giving all Michigan marijuana users a certain degree of protection from criminal charges for operating a vehicle while under the influence  of drugs.

As to the logic behind selecting an 8 nanogram limit for patients who drive, Horner said, “Some people would say that .08 (sic) is too high, some people would say that it’s too low, but you gotta set standards somewhere.”

Komorn called the testing schemes “junk science,” and co-host Chad reiterated that behavior-based visual testing programs were already in place across the state to snare drugged driving violators.

The PGT staff consists of show Host, attorney Michael Komorn; Co-Host and leader of the Birmingham Compassion Club, Chad; show Producer and managing partner of 3rd Coast Compassion Center in Ypsilanti, Jamie Lowell; PGT News Director and TCC Editor, Rick Thompson. The April 17 show featured in-studio guest Eric Gunnels of Clio and the segment included Robin Schneider, Legislative Chairwoman for theNational Patients Rights Association, via telephone.

Use the embedded player below to hear Horner, Schneider, Gunnels and Thompson report on the day’s proceedings at the House of Representatives, where HB 5385 was debated. Schneider and Horner also report on a meeting earlier in the week between their two organizations and the Michigan State Police, which centered around resolving any remaining disputes in the language of HB 4271, The Provisioning centers Act.  The segment began at the 69 minute mark of the broadcast.

[Restorium2]

They need to FIRST prove impairment with a field test.

 

8 nanos are going to be present if you smoked that day at all, which is unfair. PROVE IMPAIRMENT MECHANICALLY FIRST. Preferably on camera so we know it was impartial/fair.

[GregS]

Effin fool.

[mibrains]

not good...

so not cool

 

what is with all the A S S H A T S in this world who think they need to help fux up our rights?

 

there is

no reason

no reason

no reason

to ever test a person who is acting or driving responsibly.

 

i would take the field sobriety test every time... and i would never worry about failing it while i was operating a motor vehicle.... i would never operate a motor vehicle if i felt unsafe to handle it.. too many people forget they are steering thousands of pounds of steel and plastic around and live or die by mere inches every day... i drove a semi truck after my divorce.. you would be surprised the ignorance out there behind the wheel...

 

they will use these limits to fry people for little mistakes..  we do not need to have our hands held every time we operate machinery.

 

God help us.

[jointedone]

Just wait till the election. Then these SOBs will hear from us....................................

[bobandtorey]

I agree John the 

Dispensary Owner will do anything that helps them make more money even sell our souls to Leo

 

and thats there plan

[Restorium2]

I agree John the 

Dispensary Owner will do anything that helps them make more money even sell our souls to Leo

 

and thats there plan

This stupidity didn't help dispensaries at all. They are just too stupid to think. What would you expect of someone who operates a pot store in Michigan right now? Blindly, stupidly, greedy to the max.

[GregS]

Soo. Do we or do we not demand that the legislature objectively study intoxication for the purpose of public safety?

[Restorium2]

Know what you will asked and practice;

 

Reliable Field Sobriety Tests in Michigan

 

The United States National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has established which field sobriety tests are considered reliable, and these standard field tests are utilized by highway patrol and police officers throughout the country. Michigan police and prosecutors in DUI cases utilize three particular tests, and improper administration of these tests or overlooked factors could lead to wrongful arrest and conviction.

 

Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus Test in MI

This field test involves checking the eyes of a DUI suspect by looking for an involuntary twitching of the eye, known as Nystagmus. If a person is intoxicated, this eye twitch should be somewhat accentuated and noticeable. With your feet together and arms down, you will be asked to follow the officer’s flashlight, finger, or another object with your eyes. The officer will observe your pupil size, determine if your eyes are tracking together, and look for any involuntary jerking of the eyes. Police will also be observing the onset of an involuntary twitch. If Nystagmus distinctly occurs within 45 degrees of the center of the eye, the officer will also have reason to suspect you may be intoxicated. If there are more than 4 indicators of intoxication between the two eyes throughout this examination, it is likely that the suspect has a blood alcohol content (BAC) above the legal limit. This test is estimated to be accurate in 77% of cases, however there are many mistakes that can be made which produce faulty results. If the officer does not follow the proper procedures or fails to thoroughly test both eyes, or if he or she moves the object too quickly in front of a suspect’s eyes, the results will be affected. Additionally, if the suspect is wearing contact lenses, or taking certain medications, this field sobriety test may not be accurate.

One Leg Stand Test in MI

 

A police officer may ask you to stand on one leg in order to determine if you are drunk. You will be instructed to stand with your feet together, then raise one leg and count out loud. The officer will look to see if you are off balance, swaying, using your arms, moving your foot to keep steady, or unable to keep one leg off the ground. The instructions for this field sobriety examination can be confusing, and people with certain injuries or weakness cannot properly balance regardless of their blood alcohol content. Our firm will fight against wrongful DUI conviction based on improper field-testing.

 

Walk/Turn Test in MI

 

The officer may ask you to walk in a straight line with one foot placed directly in front of the other, with the heel of the right foot placed against the toe of the left and vice versa as you progress forward. You will take 9 steps forward, then turn, and take 9 steps back. This test should be demonstrated by the police officer before you are asked to begin. While walking, the officer will ask you to count your steps out loud, keeping your hands by your side. The observing officer will be noting if you can balance, continue walking without stopping, coordinate the touching of your heel to your toe, walk in a straight line, and properly count the correct number of steps. However, if the conditions for this test are not perfect, the instructions are not clearly given, or the suspect is instructed to count to the wrong number by the officer, the results of this test may be misleading.

[bobandtorey]

Soo. Do we or do we not demand that the legislature objectively study intoxication for the purpose of public safety?

Peanut butter has already ask them to come drive with him some time ago

[bobandtorey]

This stupidity didn't help dispensaries at all. They are just too stupid to think. What would you expect of someone who operates a pot store in Michigan right now? Blindly, stupidly, greedy to the max.

 Sorry i disagree it will help them get something else they are after and IMHO it's the grow rights of patients and caregivers 

[bobandtorey]

Know what you will asked and practice;

 

Reliable Field Sobriety Tests in Michigan

 

The United States National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has established which field sobriety tests are considered reliable, and these standard field tests are utilized by highway patrol and police officers throughout the country. Michigan police and prosecutors in DUI cases utilize three particular tests, and improper administration of these tests or overlooked factors could lead to wrongful arrest and conviction.

 

Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus Test in MI

This field test involves checking the eyes of a DUI suspect by looking for an involuntary twitching of the eye, known as Nystagmus. If a person is intoxicated, this eye twitch should be somewhat accentuated and noticeable. With your feet together and arms down, you will be asked to follow the officer’s flashlight, finger, or another object with your eyes. The officer will observe your pupil size, determine if your eyes are tracking together, and look for any involuntary jerking of the eyes. Police will also be observing the onset of an involuntary twitch. If Nystagmus distinctly occurs within 45 degrees of the center of the eye, the officer will also have reason to suspect you may be intoxicated. If there are more than 4 indicators of intoxication between the two eyes throughout this examination, it is likely that the suspect has a blood alcohol content (BAC) above the legal limit. This test is estimated to be accurate in 77% of cases, however there are many mistakes that can be made which produce faulty results. If the officer does not follow the proper procedures or fails to thoroughly test both eyes, or if he or she moves the object too quickly in front of a suspect’s eyes, the results will be affected. Additionally, if the suspect is wearing contact lenses, or taking certain medications, this field sobriety test may not be accurate.

One Leg Stand Test in MI

 

A police officer may ask you to stand on one leg in order to determine if you are drunk. You will be instructed to stand with your feet together, then raise one leg and count out loud. The officer will look to see if you are off balance, swaying, using your arms, moving your foot to keep steady, or unable to keep one leg off the ground. The instructions for this field sobriety examination can be confusing, and people with certain injuries or weakness cannot properly balance regardless of their blood alcohol content. Our firm will fight against wrongful DUI conviction based on improper field-testing.

 

Walk/Turn Test in MI

 

The officer may ask you to walk in a straight line with one foot placed directly in front of the other, with the heel of the right foot placed against the toe of the left and vice versa as you progress forward. You will take 9 steps forward, then turn, and take 9 steps back. This test should be demonstrated by the police officer before you are asked to begin. While walking, the officer will ask you to count your steps out loud, keeping your hands by your side. The observing officer will be noting if you can balance, continue walking without stopping, coordinate the touching of your heel to your toe, walk in a straight line, and properly count the correct number of steps. However, if the conditions for this test are not perfect, the instructions are not clearly given, or the suspect is instructed to count to the wrong number by the officer, the results of this test may be misleading.

Thanks for the read i couldn't stand on one leg nor two on the side of some road

[Restorium2]

Thanks for the read i couldn't stand on one leg nor two on the side of some road

Then make a video showing yourself trying to do that and explain why you have trouble doing it. If you want to be better covered talk to your doctor about it and ask for a letter explaining your disability. Keep the letter with you when you drive. Work from a position of strength you created before the problems arise.

[GregS]

Thanks for the read i couldn't stand on one leg nor two on the side of some road

Which is why I take a walking cane wherever I go.

[t-pain]

driving impaired is already a crime.

making patients choose between medicine and driving is making whoopee atrocious.

 

what dispensary does horner run in flint?

maybe its time to picket out side of his business huh?

[pic book]

disown the ssoobbbbbbbbbb

[phaquetoo]

 

Which is why I take a walking cane wherever I go.

 Hey good idea greg, I have a few canes, one of them has a .22 built in it, a lil something I found when my lady's dad died! Lmao!

 

Peace

[GregS]

  Hey good idea greg, I have a few canes, one of them has a .22 built in it, a lil something I found when my lady's dad died! Lmao!

 

Peace

I want one, but in 9mm, with a compartment to keep my, ahem, personal effects in it too.

Edited April 19, 2014 by GregS

[phaquetoo]

 

I want one, with a compartment to keep my, ahem, personal effects in it too.

 Yea I know what ya mean, I seen this guy with realy long hair and a long beard, he kinda looked like a hobbit (what ever that is) he had a cane that had a built in bowl it even had its own lil lighter built in, realy kewl, he would stop and give it a puff here and there,,,,,,,But back to this testing stuff and the scum bag dispense owner trying to sell us all out, its not good enough to charge double the price to every one, he wants no one to be able to grow, and he also wants to make it ilegal to drive to his despense on meds people need in the morning, like any other meds I have been on I need them more at nite and morning, that is when im in the most pain!

 

Peace

[trichcycler]

or at minimum, stop patronizing it.

driving impaired is already a crime.

making patients choose between medicine and driving is making whoopee atrocious.

 

what dispensary does horner run in flint?

maybe its time to picket out side of his business huh?

[trichcycler]

 would it be foolish to carry that in a car ?

I want one, but in 9mm, with a compartment to keep my, ahem, personal effects in it too.

[Dlo]

Its a tiny place that's not very active. I've never thought of it as Flint’s most successful marijuana dispensary. It must be the patient certification that make there money.

[Restorium2]

Its a tiny place that's not very active. I've never thought of it as Flint’s most successful marijuana dispensary. It must be the patient certification that make there money.

Maybe he works for law enforcement then? Might explain it all.

[motorcitymeds]

Is this guy a fuxin retard..????   wtf....

[bobandtorey]

Oh i think it is very active and Ben may have a few i haven't seen him for awhile