13"x17" Shed Lighting Question

[AbominableDro-Man]

So I've got a 13 by 17 shed that I want to put lights in, I'd like to entertain hanging them vertically without hoods. How many lights and of what wattage (probably 1000's) would I need to use to make the most use of this space in this fashion?

 

I realize that there are pros and cons to hanging lights without hoods, to make sure that I have those bases covered, could someone give me a quick rundown of what those pros and cons are so that I am in the know on that?

 

Any info on this would be spectacular. =)

Edited June 1, 2014 by trix

[pic book]

to get 40 wpsf over your 221 sq. ft., hang 9 1k lamps.

[pic book]

but especially this time of year i'd make the shed roof clear, or greenhouse film so it admits the light of the sun and use the free power that, this time of year, hits home runs from the solar system.  in the fall you can retrofit it with 9 1k HIDs and a solid roof to contain heat for winter.

[pic book]

keep in mind that lamps hung vertically throw most of their light sideways, so i surrround vertically hung bulbs with a wall of plants. i like it best when every plant is triangulated by three bulbs, 400 or 600 or 1000, whatever suits the distance from the plant for non-bleaching and non-burning purposes.

[trichcycler]

recall you most likely wont be expecting to be able to grow plants in every square foot of available space.....maybe, so anyways, hanging bulbs rock it good, make sure you have adequate cooling and ventilation and you'll be swell

[Kingdiamond]

Hanging vertical bulbs your going to have to have a good sized AC to cool the shed I had a grow bunker built on my property and could never keep it cool enough to grow in .

[Highlander]

It sounds like you are trying to maximize yield. If you concentrate on lights rather than heat control in this space, you risk losing your entire crop. Heat control should be your priority. A 1,000 watt light generates almost as much heat as a 1,000 watt electric heater.

 

There are an abundance of additional questions: will this space only be used for flowering? What is the electrical capacity to the shed? How tall is the ceiling? Are you growing dirt or hydro (do you need nute chillers?) what about spaces for fans - needed to keep air flowing, which staves off pests and mildew?, and humidity control? How are you going to keep humidity under control on a hot summer day?

 

I think you are over-thinking lighting and under-thinking the other variables. If you can give more detail, maybe the growers here can give better advice.

[pic book]

engineering specs call out 3740 watts of ac per 1k watt lamp.

[pic book]

if you grow with sun only, you need huge air circulation, but power-sucking ac is superfluous.

[trichcycler]

if you want the most out of your lights surround them with plants.

If you want the most out of your plants, surround them with lights

[pic book]

if you want the most out of your plants, use the sun driver ap.

[Guanotea1]

Vert Pros

Maximum Possible Yield watt for watt

LESS heat. Bare bulb vert beats bare bulb horz. Cool tube vert beats aircooled hoods. Scientific fact.

Can work with any size plant - from flowering clones in surrounding a single light in a cylinder arrangment, medium bush in a stadium with 2 rows, large bushes in single rows, VERY large trees >1.5lb arranged in a checkerboard pattern surrounded by multiple lights.  

Does a better job growing sativa/sativa like plants than horz due to the more widely dispersed light pattern (i.e. light doesn't just hit the tops).

Costs less to setup

 

Vert Negatives

Requires you to think and plan in 3 dimensions. Hurts my brain a little. 

More Dangerous space for personale. What I mean is, I don't consider a vert bulb with plenty or even not very much distance between it and the plants a fire hazard perse - but bonk you head on one and you will wish you hadn't. It is also very dangerous for your eyes and I recommend at a minimum very dark UV blocking shades. Some go in with welding masks, personally I think that's over kill.

Not friendly to all strains in all situations. For example stadium and VSCROG configurations prefer stretchier more compliant plants vs. strong but brittle stout "production" plants.

 

1000W lights are great, I ditched them in favor of 600W lights when I went vertical. I think as long as you take care of the heat, you'll be satisfied with either choice. Don't listen to folks that say you need 1000W's for trees or for big buds, that doesn't apply to vertical. I've personally grown buds far larger than my fist dried and much better growers than I have created astronomically large buds with 600W's vertical. You'll pay a little more for the same wattage now, but, without question, it's a better ROI, and you'll have saved the money on hoods anyway so...

 

All that being said, if this is just your flower room you should understand that you are talking about producing 7-9 lbs / mo with 9K burning vertical in a well dialed in setup. That probably sounds cool to you in the planning stage - an if you already have means to safely get rid of 9 lbs / mo more power to you, but I'm just saying - that's a lot of weed. And a hell of a lot of trimming! Personally I burn 4200W in about 100 sq ft, VSCROG, that covers 22 plants about 5-8 oz each of prime dried per plant. I could fit more in, but  I throw a lot of MJ away already, so there really is no point. I don't even bother harvesting some plants anymore. They finish up and I toss them away .

 

I still have no idea why people insist on vegging with 1K, there are a few situations where maximum veg speed is necessary, but unless you are producing an unholy amount of MJ in a horizontal grow AND still want to keep in plant count - there's really no point. I start with horz t5's for cloning and small veg stage, then move up to 400W verticals for large veg stage or the second half of veg. I have tried 600W in the vertical position for veg, it did not make things move faster those small plants with every single leave getting blasted by a 400W is plenty. So if you're planning 1000W barebulb vert for veg just stop right there. 

 

In addition to all the other factors posed above we'd need to understand your goals for output - which can be as simple as you want as much as you can get - and how much work you are willing to put into it - and how many plants you are planning for.

 

If you are truly planning for an above ground, 9K grow, you will NEED something like 1500W alone for dehumidification. I have saved money by using my variable speed invertor mini-split AC vs. fans to keep my grow cool in the summer. In the winter, it's slightly more expensive, but overall AC+CO2 has been a cheaper and easier option for me and I'd argue the best option for anyone growing in a seperate structure with no access to conditioned household air. For best running costs and performance a variable speed minisplit is the bees knees, for best performance alone window bangers will do, for the cheapest possible option go with fans - but don't say I didn't warn you when it's 80 and raining out and your room is 88+ and 80% humidity.  At the end of the day all the money I spent trying to get fans to work (successfully) was worth all the stupid insulated ducting, filter boxes, and high priced fans. NOT WORTH IT AT ALL. You'll be looking at 2500+ for a minisplit to handle 9K plus another $500 at least for the required amount of dehumidification. Not an issue with 9LBS sold every month, but be realistic!

 

I have seen straight up fenced in outdoor grows produce massive trees in Michigan. Can't comment on the quality, but if it's an option for your summer season you might give it some thought.

[AbominableDro-Man]

I'm really just tossing around the idea really, realistically the space itself will only house at the very maximum 24-36 plants in the end, though for a while, likely until winter comes around, it will only house 12. 

 

Dirt grow in this particular shed, the lowest point of the ceiling is 10ft, there will plenty of room for extra fans etc. The intake for the shed WILL have an intake filter to help with the assistance of said pests, though as stated it's likely that this room (shed) will not be used until oct-dec sometime however. As per the electrical capacity of the shed, new wire, box's, etc will be installed, I personally do not know any details to that, as the electrical wiring language is gibberish to me.  this will likely be used as a flowering area. 

 

Truth be told, I'm looking for the optimal way to set up this shed so that it is done for its' end stage goal of 24-36 plants for the purposes of becoming a CG to a very select few.

 

I didn't mean for the attention to be drawn solely towards the issue of the lights themselves, but the heat etc from those was certainly a problem that will have to be dealt with regardless so thanks for that info lol.

 

Is 40wpsf the "to aim for" number in this case? Do I need 9 lights in this room only if they are hung vertically, or would that apply if they were also being used in hoods? (ALL hoods in this case will be the SilverStar 4xxl hoods) The walls are all going to be mylar finished, insulation etc is also all being taken care of to the best extent possible, cutting no corners in its' construction.

Edited May 23, 2014 by AbominableDro-Man

[pic book]

hung vertically triangulated 1ks or 600s there is no need for hoods or reflectors----cept for doing only-canopy-flowering of tallllll sativas taking 12 -16 weeks.  for 24-36 hybrid or indica trees with bulbs surrounding plants it isn't the wpsf----it's getting the verticals max close w/o burning or bleaching----and keeping leaf surface temps within optimum range. in winter requires fans; in summer chilling by ac and fans.  always requires daily lamp\fan position adjustment.

if you state all of your goals i can be more specific.

[AbominableDro-Man]

I want to use to room for flowering. The goal is to produce quality medication. What I really should have typed in the first post was: I'm looking to outfit a 13"x17" shed, its' ceiling is 10ft at its' lowest point. Now, I've been considering the option of hanging lights vertically in this shed, but I am also open to using hoods, if I use a hood Silverstar 4 XL's will be used. Which method will be the best overall, and how many lights will I ultimately end up putting into the thing count wise?

 

By quality medication, I mean meds that are well taken care of, no pest problems, mind you, I spend hours brushing through the 10 I have now alone, I keep a very close eye on them daily, so that shouldn't be a problem. 

 

I just want to outfit this shed so that the flowering can be done in there, while my vegging plants keep in their nice cozy tent.

[Hydraulic Jack]

The Silverstar 4xl is the largest hood currently on the market....I love mine!   HJ

[AbominableDro-Man]

Likewise, I have one that I use in my current grow tent and I think it's the cats' pajamas.

[pic book]

 no pest problems 

no pest probs----spray wipeout day 20 of veg for mites and eggs

no pwm or mold probs----spray eagle 20ew day of veg 22

Edited May 25, 2014 by pic book

[AbominableDro-Man]

Just gonna mylar the whole thing inside, toss in fans and hoods and call it good for now until I need to put more hoods in. 4 should do for my 12 girls for now haha.

[Kingdiamond]

Just gonna mylar the whole thing inside, toss in fans and hoods and call it good for now until I need to put more hoods in. 4 should do for my 12 girls for now haha.

What size air conditioner are you planning on using in this shed fans alone are not going to do the trick.

[AbominableDro-Man]

It's a pretty large outside device for cooling the shed itself, 18000btu/h's of cooling. I know it was previously used for a full-size home, so I'm thinking it should do the trick.

Edited May 27, 2014 by AbominableDro-Man

[Kingdiamond]

Ok next remember about the humidity levels might have to buy a dehumidifier.

[pic book]

34k btu's of cooling is minimum needed for 9-1000w lamps

21k btu's of cooling is minimum needed for 9-600w lamps

in winter at 30 f or below, fans are enuf.

also, a concrete bunker all under-ground (with roof 5 feet below grade, will be ok with fans alone)

Edited May 27, 2014 by pic book

[AbominableDro-Man]

Certainly not digging out a bunker, but a good idea haha. As per the cooling, I can supplement with a window unit mounted in-wall if need be. As per dehumidifiers, what sort of scale of one am I looking for do you think?

[pic book]

Certainly not digging out a bunker, but a good idea haha. As per the cooling, I can supplement with a window unit mounted in-wall if need be.

window units will easily generate 34k btu but so often the window openings aren't wide enuf for that large of a unit without sawzall and spall hammer. how wide are your window openings?