Mmj Advocate Jailed, Charged With Major Drug Felonies In Muskegon

[FranksHotPeppersAndMarijuana]

Don't know that I have ever in my life read something so asinine.  It's a store's fault that people steal.  I suppose the thieves don't have free will.  Reminds me of the real winners who claim it's a woman's fault that she was raped because of how she dressed.  I suppose lowly trolls with one-track minds cannot be held responsible in this society so we have to blame the victim.

[FranksHotPeppersAndMarijuana]

Norby, that is completely false regarding the NY Times article.  You stated that the reason major crimes don't have 100% arrest clearances is because of petty crimes tying up time.  That's malarkey.  If an investigation hits a brick wall then no amount of money is going to solve it.  You are making a false assumption that if we throw more money at it then it would be solved.  You have got some seriously skewed thinking.

 

Can I ask how old you are?

Edited July 29, 2014 by FranksHotPeppersAndMarijuana

[cheapshades]

Norby, .........................

 

Can I ask how old you are?

 

No, Thanks.   

[pic book]

I agree, chief justice young is sick...of mj, so resign, stop taking the check, and step aside so someone who wants to do the job can sit on the sc.

[Norby]

Don't know that I have ever in my life read something so asinine.  It's a store's fault that people steal.  I suppose the thieves don't have free will.  Reminds me of the real winners who claim it's a woman's fault that she was raped because of how she dressed.  I suppose lowly trolls with one-track minds cannot be held responsible in this society so we have to blame the victim.

Is that what it reminds you of?  Your pretty sick.

 

You can take what I say out of context and present it any way you like.  We are talking about the cost to society of prosecuting  stealing a $10 cd.  You really want to equate that to rape?  I'm talking about hauling cops off the streets to go pick up some schmuck from a store, drive them to a jail. process them, get them a court date and appoint a public defender.  Yes, stores know people steal, that won't change.  I'm talking about them taking responsibility so we don't spend 50k a week prosecuting $10 Cd thefts.  And obviously the stores think so too or they wouldn't put the locks and alarms on them.

 

That washing machine hash post must've really pissed you off huh?  You've followed me into what 5 threads now?

Edited July 30, 2014 by Norby

[FranksHotPeppersAndMarijuana]

I'm not following you into threads.  I am looking at the new content viewer.  Doubt there is a rule against that.

 

As for a comparison to rape, it isn't a comparison to rape it is a comparison to a line of thinking.  Didn't think I needed to spell that out for you but there was a hint in my post when I said one-track mind.

 

The cost to society for shoplifting is more than the $10 CD.  I think that is what you are failing to comprehend.  Someone who steals a $10 CD is very likely to have done it before and even more likely to do it again if the only consequence is a tisk tisk from a store manager.  Have you ever been to Los Angeles?  Stores there have razors behind lock and key because they are expensive and a common target among thieves.  Maybe you are okay with having to wait for an employee to unlock a cabinet to get your razors, CDs, and everything else that is easily concealable and relatively expensive.  I'd rather not live in that world.

 

You are also forgetting that fines and costs levied against a defendant include court costs and other governmental costs to offset prosecution.  They are also required by law to compensate the victim.  And if it isn't enough then increase the costs you don't just let scum steal stuff with no consequences.  You act as if the only solution is to not act and to force stores to have a de facto police force.  Do you think stores will absorb the cost of added security or do you think they will pass it on to the consumer?  You are paying for theft whether you realize it or not.

[Norby]

So the guy stealing a cd is going to pay all the court costs? If you can't afford an attorney....  They don't pay for a public defender, we do.  Your rape comment I called for just what it was, trying to associate stealing cd's with rape. Painting a picture.  And your asking me my age shows your mentality.  I don't think like you so I have seriously skewed thinking?

You think how you want and I think how I'll want.  I personally would shop at the locked store because i'd know I'm not paying for shoplifting.  Put the cost where it belongs, on the stores not on society.  If you lay out thousands of dollars worth of stuff and let people walk thru all day unsupervised, it's not the gov'ts job to protect you from every little theft.  We are not talking about other crimes they commit, we are talking about 1 person stealing a $10 CD, keep focused. And I never said no repurcussions, I said they were to be banned for life from the store or chain.  Maybe put their name in the newspaper like they do in small town police blotters.  Report it but file no charges. You keep representing my side of the argument wrong or out of context.

[FranksHotPeppersAndMarijuana]

I compared the line of thinking in a rape case where some believe a woman deserves it because of the way she dressed.  That is called blaming the victim.  The line of thinking is called blaming the victim.  Similarly you are blaming the victim.  Do you get it now?  It isn't comparing it to rape it is comparing it to the line of thinking.  Easy to grasp concept.

 

You aren't paying for shoplifting when buying from a store where things are locked.  You are paying for increased security.  So if it makes you feel better to pay for that as opposed to shoplifting then more power to you.  Not only are you paying for the security but also everything associated such as extra employees to get you your razors.  Then there is your time.  How much is that worth?  Maybe not much to you but they say the average person spends 6 months to a year of their lives waiting in lines.  Be prepared to at least double that when you need to wait for razors, etc.

[Norby]

Hey at least someone is working.  I'd sure rather pay for that than absorb the cost of thievery, wouldn't you? Maybe we can even get the unemployment #'s down and the employees would maybe even know something about the products they sell.  They already showed Home Depot lost all the money they thought they would save getting rid of cashiers in added shoplifting.  But ya, I'll pay for the service.  As for waiting in lines, don't buy so much stuff.   I don't need much, I don't buy much and i don't want to pay in taxes for what others utilize much moreso than I.  If the cost is in the products for security, I don't pay as much.

 

Stealing has been happening since the beginning of time.  It isn't going away unless things are under lock and key.  Then it's breaking and entering and stealing.  Different thing.  Something I'd want prosecuted.

  Rape involves violating someone's body and is violent and is a much different crime than stealing.  Saying someone is asking for it by the way they dressed is sick and equating stealing to rape is much more skewed thinking than I ever had.  Not locking your bike or your car doors is asking to get things stolen.  by way of society, not locking down things that you have for sale and not watching them is a lot different "asking for it" than the "asking for it" they are talking about with rape.  Since the cost of stealing is naturally passed in commerce it's more of a victimless crime than rape by a looong shot.

 

Listen, the gov't can't prosecute every pack of gum stolen from a store. There is a line to be drawn as to where you stop prosecuting and let the stores deal with it.  A $10CD is near where I draw the line  Did you ever go into a store and see the bad checks on the wall?  Similar concept.  The thinking isn't as skewed as you think. And nowhere near what you make it out to be.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Norby

[FranksHotPeppersAndMarijuana]

I suppose there is no point in this.  You don't argue constructively.  This has nothing to do with a rape it has to do with the line of thinking (blaming the victim) and apparently you don't grasp the concept you just babble on saying it isn't the same.

 

I really cannot fathom how you can say thievery is victimless or much more victimless.  You're either a victim or you aren't.  Every theft has a victim.  But I know a store isn't a real victim because they asked for the theft by not nailing things down.  I'm thinking I should drag my patio furniture in for the night so I am not asking for it to be stolen because if it were then it would be my fault.  Maybe I could install a security camera and put the picture of the thief on my front door for all visitors to see.

 

And no I wouldn't rather pay people to unlock the cabinet because that means I am standing in one more line.  On top of that I don't want to live in that kind of a world where everything is under lock and key or where a cashier needs to remove an ink tag from everything I buy.  Clearly your time doesn't carry much value for you.  You pay more for things at 7-11 than you would at Meijer.  There are a lot of reasons for that not the least of which is demand for convenience.  People are willing to pay more for convenience. 

 

I don't know what makes you think that shaming a person (putting up their picture) will somehow be preventative.  Nor do I know how you think any store could effectively control whether one of those people revisits their store.  Maybe they can install retinal scanning devices and we can all stand in line and get our retinas scanned before we are allowed in.  Maybe the store could also assign an employee chaperone for every customer.  Why not?  Would maybe increase your shopping bill tenfold but hell at least we are paying to employ someone.

[Norby]

Hey, your the one who equated it to rape. And if you don't like the way I think and talk then stop reading.

Different experiences and different lifestyles lead to different ways of thinking.  Get over it already.

Victimless in the sense that if someone stole something from you you wouldn't get it back.  Stores know they are going to get robbed so they add it into the cost.  Home Depot never took out their autocashiers even though they know it leads to more theft.  Why should i be responsible for that if I don;t shop at home depot.  Hire the making whoopee employees back.  You want to shop at that store, deal with the higher prices from their lax security, don't pass it on to society, just the people who shop there. 

Under your philosophy people could open shops and get robbed for petty items(dollar store) because of no mirrors, cameras and alarms for items and pass the cost on to the system of getting robbed 3 x a day if they catch that many.   Cost to the store for 3 items under $30, cost to society, hundreds if not thousands if they see jail time. It's not societies responsibility to deal with petty thievery of corporations unless there are standards in place to close to negate the possibility.  It's passing on corporate costs to society.  And i've had enough of that.

  Personally, I think they should be taken out back for a talking to instead of burdening society over it.

Remember we're still talking about a $10CD.

 

Didn't want to do another post so I apologize.  I won't post unless pertinent to the op.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Norby

[GregS]

Let me tell you a story. My youngest son was caught lifting a CD when he was in junior high, I think seventh grade. A police officer brought him home and explained what had happened. This was in about 1993. I said to the officer that I would take care of the matter. The boy was enjoying music and playing electric guitar, playing with some other local kids and sometimes in public. His CD collection was pretty extensive and a number of them had parental advisories, which we allowed, having explained to him that his mother and I expected him to be responsible enough to understand that we would not let that get in the way of more important things. After talking with him I let him stew for a few days after telling him that my first impulse was to destroy them. He became distraught and asked me please not to because, and I saw this, music was very important to him. In the end I told him that I was keeping them and that the only way he would get them back was to bring me a straight A report card. It took him the rest of the school year, during which his grades improved steadily. They had prior been less than average and pretty disappointing. When he excitedly brought me his final report card with all A's and one A minus I congratulated him and we were both very happy. He told me that getting good grades was not as tough as he had thought it was and continued through his high school career getting good marks, enjoying his teachers, and especially his accounting teacher, who he stayed in touch with through college. In some sort of High School accounting competition he won trips, one to Pasadena, where he was very excited to tour the Rose Bowl (he is a huge Michigan football fan) and awards, to include scholarship. He is a smart man and now a successful accountant working in a major hospital network and raising a family. He still tells people that story and thanks me for handling it the way I did.

 

Take from that whatever you wish. Those are great memories for me despite the gravity of the circumstance. I love this guy. He has since demonstrated time and again that he will use reasoned judgment to make his way through life. There can be lessons learned from any circumstance, and if handled properly they can lead to good character. This might not speak directly to your conversation regarding theft, but I think it is nonetheless instructive. I am not suggesting that we should steal, but it is possible to use complicated and unwanted situations to bring good results.

 

I mentioned earlier that I have dealt with theft in business. It is constantly in management's face, and it is not even possible to prevent altogether. Every P&L had a line for shrink, and it is a matter of keeping that number low. Upper management understands, but nonetheless puts pressure on middle management to constantly work on it. It is one more little thing that life dishes out.

Edited July 30, 2014 by GregS

[phaquetoo]

Ok Now I know I sometimes get off subject and get into argumensts in the threads, can we now get back to the o.p's original content of "an mmj advocate jailed and charged with felony's" and text that pertains to at least the same subject.

 

No offense fella's maybe take it to chat or p.m lol!

 

Peace

[MiMedical]

This is from Derek, it's on Facebook,

 

"Although were being charged with violations of the Controlled Substance Act, This Rally is being organized to bring to light the fact that city officials, police, prosecutors, and judges are not abiding by The United States Constitution, and are depriving citizens of their rights everyday. This conduct must not go ignored, and these officials must be held accountable for their actions. Our preliminary examination for our criminal proceedings is being held at 10am at the Muskegon County Hall of Justice and we are asking that folks come out to support our efforts to stand up against these officials and fight for the rights of not just Licensed Medical Marijuana Cardholders, but that of all citizens in our communities that are granted the same rights to us all through the Constitution. There is no excuse for the officers conduct in this matter...especially falsely arresting a 12 year old at gun point without any probable cause and without yet having obtained a warrant. Please come out and support our cause, and let our elected officials know that we the people will not stand for this kind of behavior, nor the expenditure of our tax dollars in such a manner. PLEASE SHARE THIS EVENT...AND INVITE ALL YOUR FRIENDS!

 

We have to be in the courthouse at ten...so we will meet at 9, and i will give a short speech at 9:15. we will march around the hall of justice, and supporters will continue to march around the courthouse and city hall while we attend our preliminary exam. then samantha and I will return and let everyone know the outcome, and offer some more words to community members in attendance, and march some more. there will be flyers for folks to pass about to folks passing by at the stop lights, informing them of the situation, as well as informatives on jury nullification. feel free to make signs for this event, but keep them civil please. thanks, and we look forward to seeing some old friends. time to start hittin the streets again!

 

Thanks, and god bless you all."

 

Muskegon County Michael E Kobza Hall of Justice

990 Terrace St, Muskegon, Michigan 49442

Edited July 30, 2014 by MiMedical

[cheapshades]

This is from Derek, it's on Facebook,

 

 

http://www.facebook.com/events/348707885276784/

[FranksHotPeppersAndMarijuana]

What is his court date?  He gives a time but not a date.

[phaquetoo]

I just medicated, I didnt see a date, only time and addy!

 

Peace best of luck!

[cheapshades]

Facebook link. It's listed at the top.  7 Aug

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by cheapshades

[trichcycler]

I often wonder of the Judge, and his take on a group of marijuana leaf sign holders demanding a dismissal in his court, chanting mantra's reminiscent of yesteryear. I hope this goes well for all involved.

[bobandtorey]

I agree grassmatch they wouldn't want the judge to think theres some kind of movement going on right in front of him and inn his Court room those day have come and gone i have been to many court rooms just not lately 

 

but when i was going i had always acted and dresses nicely 

 

But i could tell you some Stories of the fun Days we had outside some of the Court houses around the State 

Edited July 30, 2014 by bobandtorey