Our Section 8 Defense And Court Drama...

[MiMedical]

Ok, I will try and keep this short and simple, with a few minor specifics left out, as it isn't really important.. And there was no controlled buy, no dealing or sharing... My wife is a mmj patient since 2010, worked great for her multiple serious conditions, t-boned at 60 while driving a dodge neon, pregnant and 25 weeks along with our child, We lost our son and she was bedridden for 4 months, then to a wheel chair for 7 months, this all occurred in 2009...

Gasp...

 

Dispensaries were in the air and not yet "legal" per say, and the prices were expensive, not to mention she was very strain specific, she would get very gaggy on most strains, her card expired towards the end of 2011, continuing to use, I did heavy construction for nearly 8 years, hard labor, I don't take an Advil for a broken leg let alone a strong norco or Vicodin, our conditions are well qualified for the use of mmj, as the dr also agreed, I had seen a mmj dr towards the end of dec 2013, any how Leo got involved and I registered with the state a week later, ( her card was expired, I had dr rec prior to Leo drama) now I register with the state for my card, she renews hers, as the police continue to screw around for a whole year.

Warrants issued for manufacturing w/ intent we're going to the same dr. for follow ups and keeping it all to the T as possible to the mmma, having an excellent dr for a year and learning and trying all sorts of quality strains we find what suits each other the best, now back to the cops, small locked room, had one 3inch plant and 11 seeds in soil (no lab report on the plant) two mason jars with less than 2.5 in each, bag of old leafs, now the lab report we get says we had ".812 grams of usable marijuana".. No weight on leafs, or on the "usable marijuana".. Leo took our CPU (nothing found on HD) cell phones (nothing on that), no cash, no guns. Now we have had multiple adjournments, reschedules for our sec8 in circuit court, and a few plea offers (possession of mmj) now, to day praying we can get this over we don't even see a judge, just more intimidation and offers.. I get offered a plea for possession and she gets offered a plea to "use of mmj".. We were told that in our city, the judge in district court seen a sec8 case last week and the judge shot down the defendants dr/pt bona fide relationship due to the fact he did not try more pills before going to a mmj dr, a specialist.

Further more the judge told him that since his dr travels around the state and isn't local, he would not allow that, I told our lawyer that isn't what a bona fide relationship is, he replied since the SC did not define what a bona fide relationship is, it's up to the trial courts to interpret.... I have spoke with a lot of very knowledgable folks who have helped my wife and I a lot, and I mean a lot.. You all know who you are and we appreciate it so much, you do so much for patients. Thank you again!

 

Please, I only write this to educate others and am not looking for b/s remarks or sympathy.. Just a log for more information..stay safe and medicate!

[MiMedical]

8/11/14

 

Sec8 was a no go, I texted our lawyer and said no thanks to any plea deals, now we need to cancel jury trial for tomorrow, and Wednesday and start over again....

 

Our lawyer filed a motion for discovery about 5 months ago, again the only thing on that was less than a gram of marijuana, I forgot he did file that.. Maybe it would be a good idea to do that again..

 

Also no state police were involved, just a couple rookie township police.

[t-pain]

yes, you need to file a sec8, or file a stay until people v hartwick / people v tuttle is settled. if the judge rejects sec8, file an interlocuatory appeal.

 

you will be prevented from mentioning mmj in court , and the trial will find you guilty....

 

its setup to screw you. its not a free speech zone. funny how that works ?

[t-pain]

if your lawyer wont file a section 8 , tell the judge you wish to fire him.

if the judge says you shouldnt file a section 8 because he will deny it, FILE IT ANYWAY.

 

i tell you this based on the coa/msc case (hah i forgot which one) that a guy didnt file because the judge told him he would deny it... well, hes out of luck now!

 

also another case where he didnt file the motion until trial had started... bad move.

 

file it. dont let anyone hold you back from filing it. it is your one AFFIRMATIVE defense.

[MiMedical]

Sec8 was filed for 8/11, the court docket showed that, our lawyer was in the back with the PA. About 45 minutes later the court room lights shut off like a movie store closing, 15 minutes later we sat down and were offered more plea deals... So I guess another sec8 will be filed, and if our lawyer says we're going to trial tomorrow at 9am I'll stand in front of the judge and and tell him I'm firing our lawyer, kiss 5 grand good bye and I'll hire another lawyer. Thanks Tpain

[ozzrokk]

So let me get this straight. Your lawyer filed a sec. 8 today or told you that a judge in someone elses case was denied a section 8 based on some bull chit interpretation? If your lawyer did NOT file a sec., 8 then you better do it before any trial. If your lawyer did file it then you need to CONFIRM that it is on the record. If it was filed and denied for the previous stated reasons then you need to appeal immediately.

[t-pain]

i think you mean a sec8 hearing was scheduled for 8/11. but there must be an evidentiary hearing for a sec8. so if the evidentiary hearing was cancelled ... it means probably the motion was taken back by your lawyer or maybe the judge is trying some sneaky making whoopee bunny muffin.

 

your lawyer may have reserved the right to file a sec8 later?

but i wouldnt trust the court at this point after 2 years of waiting, would you?

 

the fact that the lawyer told you about a plea deal... doesnt that sound strange?

i mean, you were ready for a sec8 and he talks plea deal? what?

 

discovery? you havent recieved discovery yet 2 years later?

thats a violation of court rules i think, probably a mistrial. your lawyer didnt tell you about that? 

you may want to get a second opinion on this advice.

info about failure to comply with discovery (fed court anyway) http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_37

 

my stupid non-legal opinion is that they are trying to screw you filing a sec8 motion. maybe i'm misreading the facts. maybe someone else here can chime in with their opinion. i hate to scare you ...

theres a whole bunch of bunny muffin that goes on in court and i really am in the dark. i'm guessing blind here.

 

argh, your case details (and sirlongsmoke, and rory) have got me all riled up. i need some sleep.

Edited August 12, 2014 by t-pain

[MiMedical]

Lol, I'm just stressed, you're not scaring me, but yes we did receive discovery only on less than a gram of marijuana, and I will not have a trial until I get a sec8/ evidentiary hearing.

 

Apparently the reason our sec8 did not occur is because the PA was not prepared...

Edited August 12, 2014 by MiMedical

[Wild Bill]

Apparently the reason our sec8 did not occur is because the PA was not prepared...

 

Didn't know what to do when a defendant refused to roll over. No more business as usual, "here's your plea".

[t-pain]

well when 90% of people take a plea , why bother doing any work ?

[MiMedical]

Yea we're here now, doing the motion for sec8, again.

[MiMedical]

Yes sir, thanks Zap!

[bobandtorey]

Better than a trial at this point! Good luck!

 

 

And may i add better then the odd's of having  a trial

[+Malamute]

 Some of this issue with juries is starting to be resolved.  "Trier of Fact" issues.

 

 Anyhow,... good luck mm.

[GregS]

Ok, I will try and keep this short and simple, with a few minor specifics left out, as it isn't really important.. And there was no controlled buy, no dealing or sharing... My wife is a mmj patient since 2010, worked great for her multiple serious conditions, t-boned at 60 while driving a dodge neon, pregnant and 25 weeks along with our child, We lost our son and she was bedridden for 4 months, then to a wheel chair for 7 months, this all occurred in 2009...

Gasp...

 

Dispensaries were in the air and not yet "legal" per say, and the prices were expensive, not to mention she was very strain specific, she would get very gaggy on most strains, her card expired towards the end of 2011, continuing to use, I did heavy construction for nearly 8 years, hard labor, I don't take an Advil for a broken leg let alone a strong norco or Vicodin, our conditions are well qualified for the use of mmj, as the dr also agreed, I had seen a mmj dr towards the end of dec 2013, any how Leo got involved and I registered with the state a week later, ( her card was expired, I had dr rec prior to Leo drama) now I register with the state for my card, she renews hers, as the police continue to screw around for a whole year.

Warrants issued for manufacturing w/ intent we're going to the same dr. for follow ups and keeping it all to the T as possible to the mmma, having an excellent dr for a year and learning and trying all sorts of quality strains we find what suits each other the best, now back to the cops, small locked room, had one 3inch plant and 11 seeds in soil (no lab report on the plant) two mason jars with less than 2.5 in each, bag of old leafs, now the lab report we get says we had ".812 grams of usable marijuana".. No weight on leafs, or on the "usable marijuana".. Leo took our CPU (nothing found on HD) cell phones (nothing on that), no cash, no guns. Now we have had multiple adjournments, reschedules for our sec8 in circuit court, and a few plea offers (possession of mmj) now, to day praying we can get this over we don't even see a judge, just more intimidation and offers.. I get offered a plea for possession and she gets offered a plea to "use of mmj".. We were told that in our city, the judge in district court seen a sec8 case last week and the judge shot down the defendants dr/pt bona fide relationship due to the fact he did not try more pills before going to a mmj dr, a specialist.

Further more the judge told him that since his dr travels around the state and isn't local, he would not allow that, I told our lawyer that isn't what a bona fide relationship is, he replied since the SC did not define what a bona fide relationship is, it's up to the trial courts to interpret.... I have spoke with a lot of very knowledgable folks who have helped my wife and I a lot, and I mean a lot.. You all know who you are and we appreciate it so much, you do so much for patients. Thank you again!

 

Please, I only write this to educate others and am not looking for b/s remarks or sympathy.. Just a log for more information..stay safe and medicate!

Thanks for posting. You are aware that the bona fide relationship has been defined by the legislature and the law revised to include it, right?

[Dr. Bob]

Well another drama filled Section 8 hearing.  Not very easy to do is it?  What do you think of those that suggest getting some sort of 'notarized contract' so you can go outside of section 4 now???  Real for you yet?

 

Where are you located, I'll see what I can do about helping you find a lawyer to press your case, we'll see what we can do about your bonafide dr/pt relationship as well.  So long as you didn't do a renewal by mail, or on skype at some 'dispensary' we might have a shot at doing something about that.  I'd be happy to discuss with your current or your new lawyer.  PM me we details and we can get in contact.

 

At least your experience may help some thinking about being 'unregistered caregivers' or some of the other silly legal theories you can read about elsewhere on this site, section 4 is the way to go.

 

Dr. Bob

[bobandtorey]

i do agree that section 4 is the way to go but if you are Sec 4 then someone shouldn't even be in Court ?

[GregS]

Well another drama filled Section 8 hearing.  Not very easy to do is it?  What do you think of those that suggest getting some sort of 'notarized contract' so you can go outside of section 4 now???  Real for you yet?

 

Where are you located, I'll see what I can do about helping you find a lawyer to press your case, we'll see what we can do about your bonafide dr/pt relationship as well.  So long as you didn't do a renewal by mail, or on skype at some 'dispensary' we might have a shot at doing something about that.  I'd be happy to discuss with your current or your new lawyer.  PM me we details and we can get in contact.

 

At least your experience may help some thinking about being 'unregistered caregivers' or some of the other silly legal theories you can read about elsewhere on this site, section 4 is the way to go.

 

Dr. Bob

You've been warned. You are not to diminish sec. 8 provisions. The offer of help is gracious enough, but talking schit without all of the facts in the case is irresponsible. What makes you think there is a notarized contract and supporting notarized physician affidavit? Unless I missed it, there are none. Otherwise they would be an added layer of protection that would go a long way to prove the elements of the defense, and the case may very well have been dismissed already. Those documents can and should be used as backup to sec. 4 registration to protect patients and caregivers when dumbazz police and courts don't get it right the first time, which is not a stretch. If anything, this may spell out why they are necessary. I'd be surprised to find that they had been used.

Edited August 12, 2014 by GregS

[Dr. Bob]

i do agree that section 4 is the way to go but if you are Sec 4 then someone shouldn't even be in Court ?

 

Yes, that is the idea.  Court is expensive, emotionally and physically draining, and you put your fate in the hands of those that know little and have significant bias when enforcing an unjust law based on bad science.

 

Section 8 is useful as a last ditch defense, it is very broad and in the right legal hands powerful.  But it is very hard to push on a reluctant attorney in a reluctant court as this case clearly demonstrates.  It is there, it helps, but only a fool would based their faith on section 8 and 'their' interpretation of the law, what they can and can't do under that interpretation, and assume that if they go cowboy with some 'notarized contract' that it somehow gives them protections and the ability to do things not allowed in section 4.  

 

They can try to make the case, they can hire the attorneys, and we will cheer them on.  But for my patients, those that look to me for advice and safety with this Act, I tell them to clearly stay in section 4, lock their meds in a case and put it in the trunk, and don't try to justify doing something that is not clearly and unambiguously allowed in the law.

 

Dr. Bob

Edited August 12, 2014 by Dr. Bob

[MiMedical]

Thanks for posting. You are aware that the bona fide relationship has been defined by the legislature and the law revised to include it, right?

Yes thank you, I believe that was the one from January 13, 2013. Our run in was in Dec of 2012

[MiMedical]

Bobandtory,

that is correct, register with the state for sec4 protections, follow the law and we're legal, don't skim the law, don't try and interpret the law, but treat it just as any schedule 1 medicine and we will be alright..

 

 

Dr.Bob,

Yes thank you also, I have pm'd you some information, and I do agree, it's expensive and a pain in the donkey, but I should have registered with the state ASAP! But I failed to do so, and my wife's card was expired... Live and learn, strap up and hang on I guess, at least we do have a sec8 defense, when your at the bottom, all we can do is grasp strings and pull as hard as possible and educate others of the importance of staying in the guidelines set forth in the mmj act, and of course having a credible, professional Dr. To stand beside us! Lawyers, family, friends and even strangers!! (Well, se strangers..)

[Dr. Bob]

No, PA 512 of 2012 went into effect in April of 2013.  Prior to that it was undefined.  There was a two part advisory from the medical board sent to law enforcement in  Jan 2012 which required the same elements of the law (face to face visit, records, follow up) and a suggestion (primary care doctor for 2 years, drug abuse screen, etc).

 

I've been in contact with MI, apparently the judge wanted the doctor to have an office in that county (but never bothered to check and find out they did) and to care for the patient for 2 years prior to the cert, which was NEVER required, just 'wished for in an ideal situation'.

 

The current law is pretty clear.

 

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

Bobandtory,

that is correct, register with the state for sec4 protections, follow the law and we're legal, don't skim the law, don't try and interpret the law, but treat it just as any schedule 1 medicine and we will be alright..

 

 

Dr.Bob,

Yes thank you also, I have pm'd you some information, and I do agree, it's expensive and a pain in the donkey, but I should have registered with the state ASAP! But I failed to do so, and my wife's card was expired... Live and learn, strap up and hang on I guess, at least we do have a sec8 defense, when your at the bottom, all we can do is grasp strings and pull as hard as possible and educate others of the importance of staying in the guidelines set forth in the mmj act, and of course having a credible, professional Dr. To stand beside us! Lawyers, family, friends and even strangers!! (Well, se strangers..)

Yes, you should have followed section 4 and registered after your cert, then this never would have happened.  Another example of why Section 4 is what is expected and why it should be followed.  Section 8 is best used as a defense AFTER the you get arrested for violating section 4, not a plan of action as soon as you participate in the Act.

 

You are learning a hard lesson, don't pay any attention to those that say you can do what you want and rely on section 8 to protect you, even if you have secured all three prongs.  It is a very hard and frustrating road to follow, as you have indicated now that you are in your second year of courtroom drama.

 

In court, just because you are right doesn't mean you will win.

 

Dr. Bob

Edited August 12, 2014 by Dr. Bob

[MiMedical]

All we can do is hope for the best, and the charges shall be dismissed.

[+Malamute]

Good luck MM