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Rental Inspections


cindy48647

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well,I had all my plants out of th room, he came over and checked the room, he checked the receptacles and one of the GFI 's wasn'tworking. I left the lights up cause iI had no where to put them,Itold him iI am a legal mm patient and grow my own,he said he didn't care about that, he just wanted to make sure I didn't have a bedroom in the basement.

Anyways, he says he has to come back an check the GFI to make sure i fixed it ,ugh.

I hope Mike Komorn can answer this question for me.

I can't keep moving my plants up and down steps, can I just curtain off the plants when he comes back or should Imove them all out aagain.

I'm getting tired of this

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"this chick that rents one of my properties is growing dope officer"

how do you know?

"I saw the room, the lights, plastic sheeting on the walls plus I could smell it too"

well, come back when you know there are plants in house.

 

It's sad that patients and caregivers feel this way in this day and age. I hope you recover from this and wish you a

merry cola Christmas!

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Somewhat off-topic but did he say anything about requirements for the fix?...as in is he expecting a certified electrician to pull a permit and install a new GFCI receptacle? If you are the homeowner you can make certain repairs yourself, but on a rental property, you have some limitations. I've seen a few similar situations where the local inspector knew that an electrical repair required a permit, a licensed electrician, and a state inspection. But I don't think the locals get any permit $ for a state inspection so the locals sometimes look the other way. I had a situation with a commercial building that needed some electrical upgrades I could do myself. When I asked the local building inspector if he wanted me to pull a permit and hire an electrician, he said, "I never saw you. I don't know what you are talking about." End of problem.

 

Maybe ask him if he is OK with you installing a GFCI breaker in the main panel rather than in the bad outlet. Then you can simply show him the new breaker in the panel without needing to access the room. Also, you only need one GFCI outlet per circuit. You can have a million regular plugs on one circuit and as long as there is one GFCI outlet, you're good. So maybe find a regular plug that is in the same circuit but not in the grow room. Then you can install a GFCI outlet outside them room and show him that.

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Interesting that he is an electrical inspector now. What does a busted GFI in a basement non-bedroom have to do with your renters permit? Letting him into an active grow room entails significant risk, in my opinion.

A lot of building inspectors are certified to do electrical inspections. The inspection is to check for compliance with local rental codes so u don't need a state inspector. U only need a state inspector to inspect new stuff or stuff that requires a permit.

 

 

Maybe ask him if he is OK with you installing a GFCI breaker in the main panel rather than in the bad outlet. Then you can simply show him the new breaker in the panel without needing to access the room. Also, you only need one GFCI outlet per circuit. You can have a million regular plugs on one circuit and as long as there is one GFCI outlet, you're good. So maybe find a regular plug that is in the same circuit but not in the grow room. Then you can install a GFCI outlet outside them room and show him that.

Don't think that's gonna fly. Don't know for sure but doubt it. A GFCI is supposed to trip faster than a circuit breaker at the panel which is why it's supposed to be at the outlet. And I don't think you only need one GFCI on a circuit because the whole idea behind a gfci is to trip when the current coming through the neutral is more than the current going back into the hot wire. So if you are getting shocked some of the current is absorbed in your body so since the current coming in is more than going out the gfci trips. Wouldn't work on a non gfci outlet on the same circuit as a gfci because the current isn't flowing through the pigtailed gfci.

 

But I still think u can change the outlet yourself and don't need an electrician. But I don't know. But it's easy. Turn off the power to the circuit you are gonna work on. Be sure it's off by plugging in a radio or something and when it goes off you know u got the right breaker. Better yet just turn off the main. Then unscrew the cover and take it off. Then unscrew the 2 screws holding the outlet in. Then disconnect the wires from the outlet. They'll either be held down by screws that u just need to loosen to take them off or they will just be pushed into the quick connect. If they're just pushed into the back of the outlet then they are on the quick connect and there will be a little hole next to where the wire goes in that you need to stick a safety pin or bent paperclip into. As you hold inward pressure on the paperclip pull out the wire.

 

Then get the gfci outlet you bought from home depot and either screw the wires into it or strip them down just enough by measuring them on the back of the outlet where there will be a guide that shows you how much insulation to strip off. Then push the wires in until they go no further. If you're screwing them in make sure strip the wire only enough to go around the screw and be sure you you twist the wire into a U shape and make sure the end of the wire goes onto the screw pointing clockwise so the wire will twist clockwise when you tighten the screw. If you put it in the other way the wire can untwist out of the U shape. Make sure you screw the bare ground wire into the green screw on the outlet. Oh yeah and make sure you put the white neutral wire on the silver colored screw and the black hot wire on the brass colored screw. Then screw it back into the workbox and put the cover on.

 

Then turn on the circuit breaker or the main switch and test the outlet by first plug something in to see that there is current and then push the button on the front of the outlet to make sure it trips. Oh and also make sure u get the correct amp outlet. The circuit breaker in your panel will probably be marker with either a 15 or a 20. If not then look at the outlet itself and there will be a marking that tells u if it is a 15 or 20 amp outlet. Then ask the helpful hardware folks for a 15 (or 20) amp gfci outlet.

 

Okay probably a hard read since it's a bit clumpy. Got any questions just ask. MAKE SURE YOU TURN OFF THE POWER AT EITHER THE CORRECT BREAKER OR JUST BE EXTRA SAFE AND TURN OFF THE MAIN SWITCH IN THE BREAKER PANEL.

Edited by Habenero
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Yes, watch the colors as sometimes the wiring scheme is backwards from the old outlet.  Found this out the hard way.  The little light was on to show power but the outlet wouldn't work.  Called my friend and he said to check the right colors are connected and he was right.  They were different and I went by making sure the wires went to the same spot.

 

Oh yeah and make sure you put the white neutral wire on the silver colored screw and the black hot wire on the brass colored screw. Then screw it back into the workbox and put the cover on.
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Hab, I haven't read up on electrical code in a while so I might be off. But a GFCI plug or breaker will trip with only a small variation in current between hot and neutral as you say, as opposed to a breaker or fuse that trips based on too much current being drawn. That said, GFCI requirements vary based on the locations of plugs. GFCIs are required for all bathroom and kitchen plugs and I think most/all outdoor plugs and plugs in crawl spaces and I believe unfinished basements. Some circuits, like those dedicated for a single appliance don't need a GFCI. In other circuits, like I think a finished basement, only one GFCI is required per circuit.

 

But I guess that's more discussion than is needed. Your info about changing the bad GFCI is spot on.

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In other circuits, like I think a finished basement, only one GFCI is required per circuit.

Ahhh, I see what ya mean now. I misunderstood. I think you were saying that if there is another gfci on the circuit then she didn't need a gfci in the current workbox. Gotcha. I THOUGHT you were saying that a gfci on any branch of the circuit would protect the other branches. It's clear to me now that it isn't what you meant.
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Ahhh, I see what ya mean now. I misunderstood. I think you were saying that if there is another gfci on the circuit then she didn't need a gfci in the current workbox. Gotcha. I THOUGHT you were saying that a gfci on any branch of the circuit would protect the other branches. It's clear to me now that it isn't what you meant.

Do you know what the deal is with polarity? I seem to recall that a GFCI won't work if the polarity is reversed. And if that's the case would the GFCI not work by not shutting off when needed or would it just not let any current through at all? I was wondering if maybe she could have a polarity problem due to an incorrectly retro-installed unit?

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Do you know what the deal is with polarity? I seem to recall that a GFCI won't work if the polarity is reversed. And if that's the case would the GFCI not work by not shutting off when needed or would it just not let any current through at all? I was wondering if maybe she could have a polarity problem due to an incorrectly retro-installed unit?

 If you reverse polarity the GFCI should still trip but instead of interrupting the hot wire it will interrupt the neutral. So then there is still a risk of shock. So it will trip but it's cutting the power to the wrong wire. But I understand that there are newer versions of GFCI outlets that interrupt both the hot and neutral when tripped so they provide better protection. But I don't know for sure. But an inspector can plug in his handy outlet receptacle tester and he'll know if polarity is switched.

 

You don't want to reverse polarity in any outlet because it isn't safe. Your appliances will still work but you have a risk of shock. A toaster for example is unsafe if polarity is reversed. When the toaster is off its switch cuts off the hot wire normally but if polarity is reversed then it cuts off the neutral wire instead. That means there is still current flowing to the elements in the toaster even if it is off if polarity is switched. So if you stick a knife in it to get your bread out you can get zapped even though the toaster is off and the elements aren't glowing.

 

definitely not questioning your directions, only referring to the sound I hear when I even think about electrical work

 

peace

Yeah I know but it can't be emphasized enough that you be sure that the power is off before you mess with wiring. Especially if you have a weak heart or a pacemaker or something. Check and then double check.
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Yikes.  Good information to have.  If the GFCI is wired to open the circuit on the neutral leg (polarity reversed) when it trips, it sounds like that might be worse than no GFCI at all.  At least with no GFCI, if there is a short to ground, there is at least a leg for the return current.  If I understand correctly, if you have an improperly wired GFCI and it disconnects the neutral wire, then whatever short that happened in the first place would have no place to go except into the guy who just dropped his blender in the kitchen sink.  I think you can buy a plug-in type circuit tester for under $5.  It would certainly be smart for everyone to invest in one of these.  Even if the user can't fix the problem, at least they can identify that a dangerous problem exists.  This is probably even more relevant in rental homes where a lot of unlicensed work gets done by a handyman landlord.

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Cindy

I am like grassmatch when it comes to messing with electricity, however I can and have
changed gfci outlets b4 and I bet you can too with habs instructions :)

I also have rental inspections.  I don't know how often.  I have been here 5 yrs and have
had 3 inspections.  Never the same person comes.

I live across from a school that closed last year which is a shame yet now I can grow
with a lil less paranoia.  What I decided to do is to tear down each April - May.  I don't
want to be stuck home all summer tending my grow & I don't want to have to rush
to clear the room out in case of another inspection.  So far they have inspected in May
or June.  It is a pita, as I haul out the furniture, set up the tent etc... then tear it down
again 9 mo later.  I told the inspector this year that I was getting ready to paint the
room as I didn't want to put the furniture back in the room this time (it is or was my
office/ sewing room. 

I am wondering if you could time your grow somewhat to have smaller plants to move. 

Or possibly construct a temp divider for your room that you could padlock and is obviously

too small for a bedroom yet allows you to just move plants to that area for the inspection.

idk, just an idea.

I too am disabled and have no one to help me with this endeavor and definitely can
empathize with you.
 

 

I hope this all works out for you (minus the hassle it has been) :)
 

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Yikes.  Good information to have.  If the GFCI is wired to open the circuit on the neutral leg (polarity reversed) when it trips, it sounds like that might be worse than no GFCI at all.  At least with no GFCI, if there is a short to ground, there is at least a leg for the return current.  If I understand correctly, if you have an improperly wired GFCI and it disconnects the neutral wire, then whatever short that happened in the first place would have no place to go except into the guy who just dropped his blender in the kitchen sink.  I think you can buy a plug-in type circuit tester for under $5.  It would certainly be smart for everyone to invest in one of these.  Even if the user can't fix the problem, at least they can identify that a dangerous problem exists.  This is probably even more relevant in rental homes where a lot of unlicensed work gets done by a handyman landlord.

 

I always keep one of these handy http://www.amazon.com/Sperry-Instruments-GFI6302-Outlet-Tester/dp/B000RUL2UU

 

Just plug it in and the lights tell you how it is wired. Couldn't be easier. Monkeying around with electricity doesn't bother me much. My carpenter doesn't care for it. I did all of the electrical work for my grow room. I have a 220 with slow blow fuses with a throw box that converts it to (2) 20Amp 110 outlets.

 

Just turning off the main sometimes is not good enough. For some reason my breaker box was approved even though when you turn off the main there is still power in the box to certain breakers! I don't know if it is something new, but it was approved (I bought the house with it that way). All new set up, it must have been approved unless the electrician pulled the meter themselves. Something I would not do, even with the right equipment. Like special boots and gloves. I always check my wires with a wiggy to be sure they are not energized. Also, check in every way possible, don't trust that black is hot and white is neutral, they could be crossed. That happened to me!

Looks like Klein Tools stopped making the Wiggy tester, too bad. Here is something similar http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-61-076-Vol-Con-Tester/dp/B000BVKUSA/ref=pd_cp_e_3

Here is another Wiggy style tester http://www.amazon.com/Klein-Tools-ET200-Electronic-Continuity/dp/B003WLLH2Y/ref=pd_cp_e_2

There are better ones available too.

 

Either way, they are good items to have. Especially the first one. Everyone should have one to check that the outlets are wired correctly. That is what most inspectors use. Better to be safe than sorry.

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I got one of those pens that light up when near a current. I love it, makes me feel invincible(yeah, right) It reads through walls and conduit and illuminates before it touches a plug or wire. I'm usually holding it while calling the electrician, checking finances...lol

 

Like one of these? http://www.transcat.com/Catalog/productdetail.aspx?itemnum=45879EL&utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&gclid=Cj0KEQjwquOhBRCupYiu4an13scBEiQAss2XkoBYRRmIkGTPaRdn-Caex8pyQN8BSKQgurbbFDqucN4aAjJF8P8HAQ

 

Another handy tool every homeowner/renter should have!

 

Even for hanging a picture. You never know if some fool ran the wire right up to the drywall or if you are using long screws or nails.

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GG,YOU put in your own 220? Dang, you are one very smart cookie! Hubs is going up on the roof to check why the heating wire has stopped working. We need it for winter on the roof. He has no clue what he is doing. But he will still do it to save money.Falling off the roof would be bad enough,but getting ZAPPED then falling would be worse.We have an old house with 2 different boxes. A real homemade job. He wants to save money but is reckless about repairing this wire and I can see a hole where I BET squirrels are living. Clark Griswald special..........................................Better call Uncle Eddie to help.......................

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Yes, one of my friends was a state electrician. She went on to work with her husband with new construction and remodeling. I went around and did some jobs with her. I did not know anything about home wiring until I did some jobs with her. Anything from the breaker box into the house doesn't really bother me to mess with. Now three way switches can be a challenge for me though. After working with her my own electrical repairs now seem quite simple. Sadly she died from lung cancer way before the law went into effect here in MI. May she rest in peace.

 

I do have experience with electrical. I started off in a small electronics lab and went on from equipment sales to working for an electrical contractor (not in the field though). I have about 20 or so years of experience in the electrical industry.

 

I can't afford an electrician! Do it yourself or find a friend.... There are a lot of skilled carpenters up north that are willing to do small jobs cheap.

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