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Led Or Hps ....leys Talkkk Growers


muchmorethenahigh420

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I have followed the evolution of LED's for several years now. Every year I go to the trade shows and look over the supplier's latest offerings and every year I step away and say, not yet.

 

Originally the LED claim of lower power and heat was attractive, but it turned out they really did not have enough power. Now we are seeing 900w LED panels. Well that sounds dam close to 1000w hps. The power savings is just does not seem to be there. Particularly when the unit cost is 5x's+ the cost of a magnetic balllast, hood and 1000w hps.

 

The real no go for me is the fact that the technology is rapidly changing and the various manufacturers seem to come and go. Over the last ten years I have dealt with 7 different digital ballast manufacturers. Each promised bigger, better, more efficient, blah, blah. Some could light any bulb, some could not last more than a year. The LED units seem to be far more complex than the simple digital ballast. I have yet to feel comfortable that today's supplier of a $2000 light will be around to support me in a two years or in 5.

LED's are a fascinating idea, but my life is already complicated, I do not need to add new technology to the complications that are inherent in maintaining an indoor garden.

 

Just my 2 cents

thank u makes lot of sence
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I spent 3 grand on Led's and never got good results.

 

1. They will burn out. Mine did after 1 year of use. Was warrantied but still.

2.They dont produce less heat like you think. Yes they produce less radent heat.

3. Simple logistics of LED diode design will only focus light according to lens design and provide a very poor optimal footprint.

 

After using Air cooled HPS/MH and LED. I settled on Gavita 1000 DE fixtures. Nearly doubled my yield when I installed 2 gavita's in place of 3 super hortilux hps with blocbuster hoods.

 

Gavita 1000's + Mini split = Best efficiency

Like many of us, the latest and most promising new technology always fascinates me.   I have been watching Gravita's product line now for a few years.   Back two years ago they were only offering a 600w unit that the distributor told me was only good for veg.   I saw that they are now promoting it for bloom and in a 1000w configuration, but I have not seen the actual unit.   All the previous units I saw were open reflectors.   When I recently questioned the owner of the grow store that I deal with, he claimed they run very hot and you need too much cooling to make them practical for anything other than a warehouse grow.  I do not want to hijack this thread, but I would be interested in your experience with these units.

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I have never been told Gavitas' are only for veg. They do only operate on 400v HPS Double ended lamps.  I personally use HPS in veg and flower.  They now make a 750 watt model as well for lower ceiling head clearance.

 

Gavita's work much different than the typical air cooled reflectors. The effective distance to canopy is 30" and no less! hanging the light higher also spreads the the light more evenly and reduces hot spots. The bulbs Do run hot because they are not air cooled. I can lay my cheek on the ballast all day long. I believe it only puts out 75W of heat. However air cooling only yields 10-15% efficiency on a good day and If you cool too much you cool the arc tube effectively dimming the bulb. In rare cases like pulling in cold winter air directly across the bulb the ballast will begin to over work and actually draw more amps

 

Proper arc tube temp is critical to PAR output and lumen output.

 

Glass will collect dirt and even clean reduces light output by 10%. Air cooling the bulb is a 10-20% loss. Refector degradation over 1 year is aprox 5% loss (compounds annually)

 

25-35% more light and still using the same amps. plus broader par spectrum

 

My personal experience with them is this. I went from 3 Air cooled blockbuster 6" hoods with baddass digital low frequency ballasts and eye hortilux super hps 1000w bulbs and 18k Mini split/heat pump. I would run 4 plants per light 4.5-5' tall in organic super soil and yield averaged 5 oz per plant.  high temps durring day was 80-81. Swapped out the 3 lights with 2 Gavita pro 1000's properly footprinted per gavita's specs. I hung them directly to the ceiling on hooks because I grow 5' plants in a 8' room. I now average 8 per plant. Temps stay 77-78. And used 1000watts less power! sure the AC is running a little more maybe? but my power bill dropped $200. replace the reflector insert $60 and bulb $120 once a year.

 

forgot to mention Resin production is improved and nuggets under the canopy are fist sized.

Edited by resinxtractor
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I tried an LED grow several years ago with some of the more expensive UFOs.  The plants did fine.  After the second week of flowering I decided not to take the chance and put in the HPS.  Two of the UFOs were given to people for growing houseplants.  After four years they are still working fine, and the plants are growing well with little natural sunlight.

 

Lighting technology, especially LED, is advancing rapidly.  We only just have new laws to do away with incandescent bulbs - technology very similar to Edison's first bulb.

 

Cost for LED bulbs has come way down in the past 2-3 years.  I just bought dimmable 12 watt LED bulbs for $4 each and dimmable 15 watt LED reflector bulbs (the kind for can lights) bulbs for $8 each at Menard's.  Three years ago, similar bulbs cost about four times that if you could even find the dimmable ones.   

 

As the LED market continues to expand, research and development will bring the cost down and quality up.  Probably, at some point we'll see LED bulbs selling for about the same price and CFLs do today.  CFLs weren't cheap when they came out.  Now you can get them for under $1.  Once the LED market hits a similar point, that's probably the time to take LEDs seriously for growing.  When I can buy a 1,000 +/- watt grow light for $300, I'll give it a try.

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I recall hearing everyone in the community saying metal halides were for vegetating only. Hogwash! I've carried plants all the way through growth with just MH bulbs.

matter of fact I use hps because I was told to, not even sure why. The mh light is friendlier to my eyes.  I currently run two mh and two hps in flower. I also have a 10k bulb, like a cool tanning booth, for making hash tips, but that's another thread.

 

I challenge anyone growing in hydro to send their LED buds in for lab testing, along side their hps buds. You'll see.  a refractometer is cheaper and results will be seen faster. If you cant stand the (hps) heat, well, ..............

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Resintractor, thanks for the feedback!

"My personal experience with them is this. I went from 3 Air cooled blockbuster 6" hoods with baddass digital low frequency ballasts and eye hortilux super hps 1000w bulbs and 18k Mini split/heat pump. I would run 4 plants per light 4.5-5' tall in organic super soil and yield averaged 5 oz per plant. high temps durring day was 80-81. Swapped out the 3 lights with 2 Gavita pro 1000's properly footprinted per gavita's specs. I hung them directly to the ceiling on hooks because I grow 5' plants in a 8' room. I now average 8 per plant. Temps stay 77-78. And used 1000watts less power! sure the AC is running a little more maybe? but my power bill dropped $200. replace the reflector insert $60 and bulb $120 once a year."

Impressive results....yield has jumped 60%. That alone would be reason to change.

I am however curious about some details. From reading your report, you avg room temp. dropped and your electric bill went down $200. Is that per year? My avg kwh cost from DTE is $.12. At that price and 12/365 the savings from dropping a 1k light is $400+. With the lower avg. room temp you observed, I am guessing that the demand on the AC is less yet you suggested that the AC is running a little more. I do not mean to dwell on it, but the AC is a concern for me since mine is currently maxed out and I would think that changing over to unvented lights the added heat would push it over the edge. Your results seem to suggest the opposite.

Edited by semicaregiver
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How do i get the highest yeild off my plant?? Using organic soil and thousand watt hps for flowering?? And watt is the best light for veg ??

first answer is go hydro lol ,,,but for a good yield in soil, no more than 4 plants to a light,, 1000w ,keep the hood @ max of 37in from top of plant,, the best to me is MH for veg, also 1000w.. floro for cloning.. slowly raise the nutrient level, most nutrients will give you amounts to add to how much water.. keep PH stable in the 6.0 range, +/-.3 , dont over water, keep moist but not soaked.. in veg start at 400ppm, go up as they age.. lots of folks will have there own way/amounts.....the basics are the same, the grower fine tunes to his garden.. every garden is different in lots of ways.. what works for some might not work for you...

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When i buy cannabis seeds lets just say i get sourer disel seeds can i trust that they realy are wat they say they are ?? Im sure this depends on were i get them from so pliz leav suggestions for places to buy seeds. Thank you .

The seed thing, well it is what it is, some trust of the seller is needed, check others that have pruchased seeds from different sellers, I have used https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/ and http://greatlakesgenetics.com no issues and believe them to be what they are stated to be....

 
 
JMHO but it works for me, 
Edited by Willy
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EVERY grow question you can come up is answered in Jorge Cervantes medical grow bible, 25 bucks online, or free downloads on google. Its quick reading, glossy, and durable. There are so many details, but they become second nature as soon as you learn them. I opened that book and didn't close it until I was done. I followed all of the settings suggestions and never had a grow room issue since 2008. highly suggested, but certainly not the end of reading material though.

Edited by grassmatch
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EVERY grow question you can come up is answered in Jorge Cervantes medical grow bible, 25 bucks online, or free downloads on google. Its quick reading, glossy, and durable. There are so many details, but they become second nature as soon as you learn them. I opened that book and didn't close it until I was done. I followed all of the settings suggestions and never had a grow room issue since 2008. highly suggested, but certainly not the end of reading material though.

Well said grassmatch! Readers are leaders...

 

I will continue to read books, study online forums and associate with like minded people in my journey to provide myself quality mmj. Recently finished my first grow and harvested enough meds for me and mine.

 

IMHO: I say 1000 HPS in flower is the way to go!

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there are utube videos showing the same heavy yields on short (under 2 feet mature) plants--budsticks--side by side with hps grow.

the message i took away is that for half the power with midget plants i can use leds at no loss of yield, something i thot i'd make use of the next time i grow in an attic!

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I wanted to like the led craze. here is what I found out by spending oodles of cash and oodles of time educating myself. the results are from my real time room. led lights will support growth, and trick you into believing they will be fine for maximum fruition.

I use a refractometer in my rooms to periodically check overall plant health. Plants grown with led lighting just do not metabolize the way they would if grown with hps/mh lights. led's work fine for vegetating plants like basil, marijuana, thyme, rosemary, until its time to flower. These flowers will be subpar in quality, but look fabulous. Some will claim they experienced good effects from them, and I have no doubts. The facts though are that the plants finished in led lights will be chocked full of unburned carbs and other nutrients, because the par lighting just is not enough, and does a crappy job of penetrating more than a few inches below canopy. these results can be seen when lab reports are returned. I shelved my led lights years ago, after one year of farting around wasting time. I hope my experience saved others the hassle. If you want to play with cannabis, maybe a hidden plant in a moms closet, they will work. They will not support a full registry, but they will make really pretty lights at parties.

gm, i can learn from your experience; thanks much for saving me from a detour and bad tests.  

Everything i know i learned from grassmatch!

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well thanks for the kind words pic. the more I learn the dumber I feel. its never ending. I didn't invent anything, only read some books and shared the info. Sometimes when growers spend a lot on a new techy item they feel they must shout of its success to everyone who will listen. I fell for the shouts. I know led lights will grow plants, many plants. led is all that's needed to be a successful leafy herb grower. herbs are short, don't flower before harvest, and are not dried and smoked, but dried and eaten. They veg mj just fine, if looks is your only judge for a vegging mj plant. If they worked nobody would be using heat producers on a commercial scale today. They've increased the wattage to make up for the penetration lessening our savings to heat only instead of power and heat. The costs are often 4-8 times higher than a hps/mh 1000 watt system that will outlast the led bulbs/banks, even the hps bulb will last longer most likely.

 

they are getting better perhaps, but I'm no guinea pig for the sales force seeking riches in the mj business. well, actually I was, for a bit. Seems 100% of growers I hear from using hps or mh to grow have never had to question the bulb's ability to do well. I'll take a home depot 88$ 400 watt hps outdoor lighting fixture/bulb over a 1000 watt panel of 5 watt leds any day, if my end result counted on it. the light is nice on the eyes though.....and far out at a party

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I would like to share that after spending hundreds of dollars in phone calls

Emails and grow testing last year..

Learned how fractured our light industry is...its all about money

Far red lighting technology is not being produced in the USA

We have early" far red spectrum not.... far red 

There is 1 man who has developed that technology and is under a patent

I don't believe he is or plans to license that patent until he fills his pockets awhile usually

several years.until he may release it to others for royaltys

Current price for a light shipped to your address is about 2000$ for a 1x4 or 6' footprint

 for a far red specturm above 720nn min order is 10........ hurry up and wait !

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