Man Won't Face Jail For Technical Violation Of Medical Marijuana Law

[Restorium2]

except for the part that requires broken laws maybe,  just to begin helping  themselves or their patients. seeds, clones

Requires broken laws? No, requires action to continue to make the law complete. 

[trichcycler]

right on. no action since 2008 has been evident to me as a legal provision concerning acquiring clones and seeds from legitimate breeders of medical marijuana.

I'd think the Act would have started with that point, not left patients hanging in law limbo for 6 years+ is all.

[Highlander]

right on. no action since 2008 has been evident to me as a legal provision concerning acquiring clones and seeds from legitimate breeders of medical marijuana.

I'd think the Act would have started with that point, not left patients hanging in law limbo for 6 years+ is all.

 

I look at it this way.  Prior to the MMMAct, there were thousands of people in Michigan with seeds and plants.  Once the act passed, it provided an opportunity for these folks to become legal.  Once they became "legal," this allowed those folks to become caregivers and provide seeds and clones to their patients, who could then become caregivers and continue the process.  We can think of lots of ways for it to have been easier for seeds and clones to be distributed.  But then again, there will always be better ways.  If the Act originally provided for large-scale seed and clone distributors, we'd still have people saying "but I can't get genetics except those already here in Michigan."   I've always seen the "someone had to break the law in the first place" as more of a strawman argument.

[trichcycler]

I can agree with you mostly. But no matter how you view the "strawman "argument, it has teeth and has been mentioned often.

 

 

I don't argue the point, but have seen it made by prominent lawyers and professional marijuana advocates. Some sick people don't have drug connections from yesteryear to rely on. The Act was made for not only old time illegal users as you say, but for any sick individual that seeks prescription alternatives.  These  have been left out of the loop, until someone, like an old drug connection appears.   Providing access to only those with connections isn't viewed as a fair shake by me. imo

[Restorium2]

I look at it this way.  Prior to the MMMAct, there were thousands of people in Michigan with seeds and plants.  Once the act passed, it provided an opportunity for these folks to become legal.  Once they became "legal," this allowed those folks to become caregivers and provide seeds and clones to their patients, who could then become caregivers and continue the process.  We can think of lots of ways for it to have been easier for seeds and clones to be distributed.  But then again, there will always be better ways.  If the Act originally provided for large-scale seed and clone distributors, we'd still have people saying "but I can't get genetics except those already here in Michigan."   I've always seen the "someone had to break the law in the first place" as more of a strawman argument.

It would fit right in with the new penalty wording for card holders. All sales of clones and seeds are protected if a card holder is involved. Just that easy. A fine if you go over count. Should have happened early in '09. Instead we get the straw man for years. Hey straw man, got a clone for me?

[Highlander]

I can agree with you mostly. But no matter how you view the "strawman "argument, it has teeth and has been mentioned often.

 

 

I don't argue the point, but have seen it made by prominent lawyers and professional marijuana advocates. Some sick people don't have drug connections from yesteryear to rely on. The Act was made for not only old time illegal users as you say, but for any sick individual that seeks prescription alternatives.  These  have been left out of the loop, until someone, like an old drug connection appears.   Providing access to only those with connections isn't viewed as a fair shake by me. imo

 

But access isn't provided only to those with past drug dealer connections.  That is where caregivers come in.  The point argued by some is a point argued mostly to support dispensary interests..the same old "gramma doesn't know any drug dealers" argument.  Patients were finding caregivers on this site from day 1.  I signed four of my first five patients through connections started on this very website.

[Restorium2]

Same with the 'seller' strawman not being protected. 

[Highlander]

It would fit right in with the new penalty wording for card holders. All sales of clones and seeds are protected if a card holder is involved. Just that easy. A fine if you go over count. Should have happened early in '09. Instead we get the straw man for years. Hey straw man, got a clone for me?

 

Yes I agree with a civil infraction penalty and eliminating criminal penalties, and I agree that transfers between cardholders should be OK, and it would be great if that got worked in - just like in Rhode Island.  I just can't stand the "someone has to break the law in the first place" argument because even if the law eliminated the "someone had to break the law" problem, the best we would still have would be that Michigan patients and caregivers could get seeds and clones already in Michigan.  There isn't anything we can do here in Michigan to prevent someone from having to break a law in order to import new seeds or clones from out-of-state or out of the USA.  Sure, the "get your clones or seeds from your caregiver" approach isn't as easy or efficient as having wide-open cardholder transfers.

[Norby]

Your right about one thing, I won't be satisfied till it's treated like a tomato plant.  I've gone thru too much darn persecution and being held back for my choice of meds since I was a teen for ABSOLUTELY no justifiable reason.

[mibrains]

speaking of which...

 

http://cannabisnews.com/news/28/thread28329.shtml

 

 

Pot Dilemma: Where to Get The First Seeds?

 

 

Posted by CN Staff on October 27, 2014 at 13:19:13 PT
By Carla K. Johnson, Associated Press  
Source: Associated Press 

Chicago -- As more states legalize medical marijuana, there's one stage in the process nobody wants to talk about: the part where people still have to break the law.

After growers obtain licenses, plan for security and build facilities, they then must obtain their first seeds or cuttings — while regulators turn a blind eye.

"It has to be hush-hush," said Bradley Vallerius, an attorney focused on the emerging industry in Illinois. "I've seen the moment where the client realizes this is a problem" — and wonders how they're supposed to get started.

The situation is known as the "immaculate conception" or the "first seed" problem. Those involved see it as an absurd consequence of the nation's patchwork of laws, with 23 states allowing medical marijuana sales, Colorado and Washington state allowing recreational use and a federal prohibition in place.

While marijuana may not be hard to find, getting the first seeds for medical operations often involves either descending into the underground market or crossing state lines — a violation of state and federal laws.

One Colorado grower, Toni Fox, says she ordered her first seeds for a medical crop five years ago from advertisers in High Times magazine. If they showed up at all, they came hidden in packages with T-shirts and coffee mugs.

In Illinois, where medical marijuana growing permits will be granted later this year, suit-and-tie capitalists are connecting with black-market growers for seeds or cuttings. Online, seed banks in the Netherlands and Canada promise discreet shipping in unmarked packages.

Most state laws are silent on the issue, forcing officials into a "don't ask, don't tell" stance. In Washington state, growers have a 15-day, no-questions-asked period during which they can bring non-flowering plants into their operation, which must then be bar-coded and registered.

In one Seattle case, a medical grower trying to break into the recreational market accumulated more than 2,000 plants. Police, responding to complaints about the smell, seized all but 45 plants.

The grower, Matthew Segal, faces no charges but estimates the raid cost him about $1 million. He has since sold one of his marijuana dispensaries and put his house up for sale to help cover the losses. "When (state governments) look the other way, it turns the regulations into Swiss cheese," Segal said.

In Nevada, where the first medical marijuana business certifications will be awarded next month, state law allows registered patients, who can legally grow up to 12 plants, to sell plants to a cultivation center — just once.

"We've learned from what a lot of other states have done. We've tried to avoid a lot of the pitfalls," said Pam Graber, spokeswoman for the Nevada Medical Marijuana Program.

But the Nevada law says nothing about where patients are supposed to get seeds or plants. "We cannot offer suggestions," Graber said.

Illinois officials danced around the question at a meeting for aspiring businesses.

"We're expecting that any applicant that is proposing an operations plan is going to have a plan for getting the operations started," program director Bob Morgan said when pressed for details on acquiring startup seeds or plants.

State Rep. Lou Lang, who sponsored Illinois' medical marijuana law, concedes lawmakers knew there was an issue. "We did not address it in the bill on purpose," he said. "We can't sanction in a law doing an illegal act."

David Ittel has sold indoor gardening supplies for decades at shops in Illinois and Wisconsin. Ittel won't say that the light timers and water pumps he sells have been used in illegal operations, but is meeting with aspiring medical marijuana business owners in Illinois.

"I've had people ask me: Can I help them get seeds? That's not what I do," Ittel said.

He believes some business owners will get plants in Illinois on the black market. Another source will be out-of-state growers in legal markets. Ittel believes starter plants will be brought into Illinois covertly.

With its thriving recreational market, Colorado would seem a likely source. But it's risky for growers to divert plants out of state, cautioned Colorado Director of Marijuana Enforcement Lewis Koski.

"I'm not aware of a lawful way for that to occur," Koski said. "A business could have their license revoked. The members of the company could face criminal charges."

Ultimately, there will need to be a federal solution, said Chris Lindsey, legislative analyst for the Marijuana Policy Project, a national group that supports regulated marijuana.

Otherwise, he said, "there isn't much of an option for states except to look the other way and understand that there has to be a way for regulated businesses to operate."

Sara Gullickson, of Newton, Massachusetts-based consulting company DispensaryPermits.com, doesn't advise clients on the question. But she knows the score.

"They have to get (seeds or plants) from another state," she said, "and it's not legal, but that's what they do."

Associated Press writer Gene Johnson in Seattle contributed to this report

Source: Associated Press (Wire)
Author: Carla K. Johnson, Associated Press
Published: October 27, 2014
Copyright: 2014 The Associated Press

[t-pain]

piece of crap lawmakers tell people to break the law.