Is It Just Me?

[GregS]

Or is anyone else getting a kick out of watching police departments squirm over the overdue outcry against their heavy handed methods? Can it be brought to bear on cannabis over-enforcement too?

Edited December 5, 2014 by GregS

[t-pain]

not until you get it on video and get it on tv every day greg.

 

get those raids on camera and get it on tv and newspapers and twitter EVERY DAY.

 

then we' ll have changes.

[Restorium2]

It really needs to go up hill somewhat and put the pressure on the prosecutors. 

[GregS]

I think the entire judiciary must be looked at, and looked at HARD. Maybe some courtroom video too?

Edited December 5, 2014 by GregS

[bobandtorey]

[imiubu]

Change gone come and the price extracted will be blood just as it has been, so it will be.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOYuhLNwh3A

[+Malamute]

That Redden guy looks like  a real troublemaker there.

 

 I'd watch out for that guy!

 

[trichcycler]

The police brutality videos have been posted for a long time on youtube. Nothing new, citizens being abused, people yelling about it, then off to the games.

 

the difference may just be the reporting of the incidents ?

[jointedone]

They killed that guy. Man up,you cowards.

[Wild Bill]

They don't seem to be squirming too much. A few weeks off with pay and they're back on the streets.

[Restorium2]

They don't seem to be squirming too much. A few weeks off with pay and they're back on the streets.

Behind the masks they are squirming right now. They enjoy this being a race thing though. If we stay there it will never get fixed. 

[Highlander]

I'll admit that I was pretty sympathetic to Officer Wilson in the Ferguson matter ...understanding that if an officer is faced with a physical threat he can/should be able to do whatever is needed to protect himself from the advancing threat..... until Resto pointed out the obvious issue - that Wilson was ready to physically engage not only a very large man but TWO men, when he opened the door of his patrol SUV.  Wilson testified to the grand jury that he didn't carry a taser because it was too bulky.  I'm not sure what the generally-accepted fact is - did Wilson know Brown had just strong-armed a clerk in a convenience store, or did Wilson simply see Brown and his buddy as arrogant punk thugs walking down the middle of the street?

 

So let's explore both scenarios:

 

1.  Wilson suspected Brown of a recent strong-armed robbery:  If so, Wilson should have recognized that there was a possible/likely and immediate physical threat if he engaged the perps.  Accordingly, he should have bided his time, kept an eye on the perps, and called for backup, including an officer/unit who could deploy non-lethal force to subdue two possible/likely criminals who might be combative.

 

or

 

2.  Wilson had no idea/suspicion that Brown and his friend were just involved in a strong-arm robbery of a liquor store.  In this case, Wilson should have simply seen the two guys as young, disrespectful and arrogant  thugs walking down the middle of the street.  Again, it was foolish on the part of Wilson to attempt to attempt to exit his vehicle...if nothing else for his own personal security.  Why would an officer put himself in harm's way to confront jaywalkers?

 

Point is, at the moment Wilson decided to open the door of his SUV, he should have anticipated a physical altercation....not to say the perps were right or wrong, but as a matter of LEO policy, it would be foolish and unproductive for a single officer to confront two guys when said officer had only one defense option - his service pistol.  And we know cops are trained (and rightfully so) to shoot to kill when threatened.  So, at the point Wilson opened his door, there were two likely/potential outcomes - the perps fold, or they get aggressive...and if they get aggressive, Wilson's only option was to shoot to kill.  Wilson, facing two guys, put himself in the position where the only option he had was to shoot to kill.  This is the unfortunate crux of the story.

 

This gets to the core of what police policy should be in a case where there is no imminent threat to the officer.  It kinda reminds me of an incident I had while working in Colorado in the 1990s.  I was driving a company truck with (unbeknownst to me) expired plates.  I was just out driving around the greater Denver area on a Saturday night when a cop flashed his lights behind me.  I pulled over right away.  Then, I sat there for about two minutes while nothing happened.  A second patrol car pulled up on my left...then a third pulled up and parked in front of me...then a fourth patrol car pulled up onto the sidewalk on my right so I was completely boxed-in.  I wasn't all that concerned because I knew I wasn't breaking any laws, but I anticipated a real inconvenience.  Finally, one officer approached the truck while the other 5-6 hung back and observed.  The primarily officer explained that I had expired tags.  I asked him why it took four patrol cars and about six officers to deal with it.  He explained that there had been a rash of vehicle thefts in the area and that the perps had been armed, etc. or were otherwise combative or prone to flee...so they were being extra cautious and bringing in as much backup as they could find...OK I guess I can see their point.  The officer was actually pretty respectful, and within about a minute after we started talking, the other officers got into their cars and left.  I left with a $30 ticket. 

 

Though, I wonder what would have happened if I had been a huge black man rather than a geeky, skinny white dude.

 

So now I re-imagine the scenario.  If I had fit the stereotype of a "threat" and had been pulled over by just one cop, that guy would maybe have been on full-alert (aka...shoot to kill mode).  The fact that he had backup probably helped to put him at ease...and I get that.  And that's the point.  I think Wilson put himself in a situation with a pre-determined outcome. 

 

We really need to reexamine lethal force in our LEOs.  The Ferguson case is a good example from several standpoints.  Wilson testified that he shot Brown twice at fairly close range, and Brown only flinched and kept advancing.  I'd bet that if Wilson could have a "re-do" he'd rather have, and be safer, with a taser that would stop the advancing giant in is tracks, rather than rely on emptying his clip in the hopes of stopping the guy.

 

Maybe  this rant isn't focused very well, but my overall point is that there should be no excuse for a police officer to have only one defensive option of "shoot to kill."  If that's his only option...then wait for backup.

[+Malamute]

I believe there is still more to that story though.

 

And yes... they must feel more than 'threatened' to use deadly force.  There are standards(unused and useless standards nowadays). 

 

I still would like to know at what point and why did the officer unholster his gun.  What did the officer say.  What instigated the initial tussle.  Did the tussle occur before the gun was unholstered thus resulting in the shooting? etc etc..

[bobandtorey]

The guy's blood was inside the Leo"s car

[jointedone]

Yer a geeky skinny cracker, HL?   HILARIOUS. I'm sorry,I ate some of that stuff that makes you laugh at everything................................  .

[Highlander]

Yer a geeky skinny cracker, HL?   HILARIOUS. I'm sorry,I ate some of that stuff that makes you laugh at everything................................  .

 

LOL.  Yes I'm a kinda geeky cracker...and kinda skinny...but with some impressive man boobs.  Keep eating the stuff that makes you laugh...and if/when you run out, let me know!!! lol

[GregS]

With all due respect to the African American community, this is not only about them. Profiling Hispanics is an issue too. Then there are the several instances where disabled individuals have been mistreated and killed, with the police failing to consider diabetic reactions, schizophrenia, or any of a number of debilitating conditions, resulting in injury and death. We in this community are disabled by definition. Being homeless is obviously reason enough for police to sic dogs and shoot to kill. Has it been so long since there was a mentally ill black man killed by six officers in Saginaw that it has been forgotten? We are all in the crosshairs.

 

Edited December 7, 2014 by GregS

[Restorium2]

Excellent point Greg. When we reduce this to race we fall into the same old traps that cause us to miss the boat on closing the loop holes in the laws that govern how police must do their job. Police have been writing their own laws for a long time now. It really has to stop. They use our tax dollars to lobby legislatures to make laws that allow these terrible things that they do go unpunished. We need to take these uniformed lobbyists and put them where they belong, doing what we tell them to do. It's a win win. 

[jointedone]

 Do you have any idea what it is like to be pulled over by some cop that says he will let you go for a BLOW JOB? HUH? When you didn't do anything to get pulled over except ignore explicit gestures coming from the cop car at a red light and ignored him? You never stick up for those women. You don't even talk about it.

[Restorium2]

 Do you have any idea what it is like to be pulled over by some cop that says he will let you go for a BLOW JOB? HUH? When you didn't do anything to get pulled over except ignore explicit gestures coming from the cop car at a red light and ignored him? You never stick up for those women. You don't even talk about it.

It's all the same deal; Black, brown, red, yellow, gay, gender....  When you go there we miss the boat on changing things for the better for all of us. 

[jointedone]

Resto,you guys don't know how scary and threatening a big azz cop screaming at you to open the window more when you are a woman alone at night. And you KNOW if you get out of that car,they will throw you in the back of their cop car. No cops would ever help you much less believe you. I have 2 friends that were raped by cops. In the back of the cop car after they pulled behind a big K-Mart parking lot at night. If you get pulled over,you better hope that cop doesn't rape YOU.These women were not killers or even have criminal records. They couldn't even get a dam defense lawyer to handle their cases. Talk about cowardly. So they live with it. If you can call being afraid constantly a "Life".

[+Malamute]

police abuse is across the spectrum.  It just happens more often in certain categories currently.

 

I mean,... how old is the punch a hippy mentality? Heh. 

 

 Law enforcement members beat and abuse their families at a tune of 2-4 times the national average.  We are seeking the wrong characteristics and personalities for law enforcement members.  Very wrong obviously.

 

 Those same power hungry, steroid pumping, alpha male, dominance drunk, must be my way people.  And worse,... we encourage them to be so.  We promote those who act that way.  We encourage militarily trained people to become police officers.  Police is not military.  The exact opposite. Military creates war and chaos. Police should create peace and resolution. 

 

 This is a very deep seated issue that will take a generation or two to resolve even if we focus intently as a country to resolve it.(unlikely).

 

Ahh well....

[Restorium2]

as we watch the New York City Police Commisioner on the news tell us he's going to fix this himself ....

Edited December 7, 2014 by Restorium2

[jointedone]

 BEING RAPED is a far cry from a hippie punch. What if it was your wife or daughter or MOTHER? Rape is a crime and women have killed themselves because they cannot live with it. And the COPS rape you? Who are you going to go to for help? THE COPS????? I cannot believe how cold your words sound,Mal. And cruel. I knew you were mean,but for Gods sake do you have any empathy in you? I would slap my adult sons if I heard them talk that way. Shame on you. You must have a black heart.I pity you.

[+Malamute]

I can't believe how assumptive you are.

 

Step off.

 

 Go complain to someone who cares about you.