What Is "organic"?

[Norby]

Considering we can't be certified by the gov't.  I know there are farms "beyond organic" which don't use any pesticides(good for the phytonutrients) and aren't certified "organic" farms.

 

Personally I use botanigard and nematodes.  Are they even considered pesticides, considering you are just upping the amount of a naturally occurring fungus or nematode?

 

And the difference between just using amendments and teas as opposed to using organically chelated liquid ferts.  There is definitely a difference in finished product or can be.  Is true living organics  the term for the prior method.

 

Would "i grow organically" be a better terminology?

 

And what about just using an item like dr. doom which is chrysanthemum extract(pyrethrins) with a percent piperonyl butoxide?  If you use that as a fumigant for new acquisition clones only would that cut, the first one into flowering, not be organic?  And what of the first cut made off of that cut that was sprayed? Using that would be almost organic?  I used neem oil and dr. dooms bug bomb back in NY to get rid of spider mites.  So, for that perpetual crop, it wasn't organic till everything sprayed went thru flower and finished?

 

Just bored on a tues morning and smoked some Ghost Train Haze.  Before it would've made me worry about something, now it's just speculative thought.  Much nicer but still like I had a cup of coffee.  Wait, I did have a cup of coffee.  Oops. Time to decarb.  

 

Just something to think about.  

 

Maybe methods vary enough that an all out description is best.

[Restorium2]

Basically, with fruits and vegies, the broad term 'organic' mostly applies to a lack of pesticide use. That's the line with most advertising.

[t-pain]

i take organic to mean natural pesticides (neem, DE). because they come from nature. likewise organic fertilizer like bone meal bat guano kelp etc.

 

then theres "veganic", which is vegetable based, so you cant use bone meal, but you can use compost tea, etc.

 

 

i gave up using artificial fertilizers and chemical pesticides long ago. i learned the soil web thing and me and the earthworms never looked back.

[phaquetoo]

your 1st morning p p is organic! 

 

Peace

[trichcycler]

"Organic" =

 

Organic is a labeling term that indicates that the food or other agricultural product has been produced through approved methods that integrate cultural, biological, and mechanical practices that foster cycling of resources, promote ecological balance, and conserve biodiversity. Synthetic fertilizers, sewage sludge, irradiation, and genetic engineering may not be used.=USDA

 

fluoride pesticides, arsenic and mercury are all organic for thought.

 

 

From a sustainability point of view, we should aim to use only chemicals that cause no unintended adverse effects, leaving no legacy of contamination. Proper controls and common sense go along way in managing pests, thus reducing the need for plant insecticides and fungicides. We all experience these buggers and when we all do, I hope we all reach for the organic standards with ecology, safety and sustainability in mind.

[Dlo]

 IMO

Organic marijuana = not using synthetic fertilizers or pesticides.

I think its mostly a marketing ploy.

[Restorium2]

Yah. But when you explore the fruit and vegie market you find they only restrict pesticide use when they put the produce in the organic isle. 

[+Malamute]

There are many varying definitions of organic.  There are many different regulations pertaining to different levels of organic as well.

[trichcycler]

A GMO product is not legally allowed to wear the "Organic" label as prescribed by the USDA

 

very specific rules apply to this labeling. http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELDEV3004446

The agency leaves no mystery of what is organic or not, and specifies no product can be labeled organic without

being certified by them, and meeting inspections etc requirements. Some of us growing organically can label our product

as grown with organic standards, or no sprays, but no organic, yet.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2014 by grassmatch

[Norby]

Yah. But when you explore the fruit and vegie market you find they only restrict pesticide use when they put the produce in the organic isle. 

Not true, organic products can have organic pesticides on them up till and after the day of harvest(in storage) and still be labeled organic.  The lack of insect damage on organic produce shows that.  I only see bug bites on beyond organic produce.  Beyond organic produce has more phytonutrients because of the compounds produced in response to the insect damage. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by Norby

[Norby]

There are many varying definitions of organic.  There are many different regulations pertaining to different levels of organic as well.

I agree but we can't "qualify" for any of them since you have to be inspected and stamped by the gov't to qualify, correct?   Isn't it like a trademark using some of these terms?   Or you can use them as a descriptor of your process but not the term certified organic or certified beyond organic, etc.?  Maybe that's where my brain fart is.

 

Ooops, missed GM's post. I think that answers my question.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Norby

[+Malamute]

Well USDA has a few levels of organic itself. States have their own sometimes.

 

But USDA has a few:

 

"100% organic"

"organic"-95-99%

"made with organic" 70-94%

Individual ingredient organic labeling of multi ingredient products- less than 70%

[trichcycler]

we don't have to dig to deeply to discover the few nasty things people might reach for. A good start would be removing

Floramite, Avid, Eagle20, Hot Shots from the "grow stores" and grow rooms I think. Educating growers and patients will

prove to be our best course of action. Some people still believe there is no harm in using these in a medicinal garden because

it's sold at the store and it works(to treat the infestation symptom).

 

I spray fresh aerated spring water on all of my vegging plants daily because they like it, and the dehumidifier is automated.

I've dipped my plant bags in neem/water/soap before when I had ants nesting in a couple of them. The ants/larvae died quickly never saw them again. Spring time is a trip around here, all kinds of critters get in the grow room to take a look around. I let the spiders stay but sticky trap any flying bugs. Never saw a mite, but I have seen thrips, gnats and aphids. A few yrs ago I started adding crumbled mosquito dunks(organic bacteria) to my composting efforts and after around 6 months I never saw anymore of those. I still sprinkle a bit here and there for good measure.

[Indigro]

^^^ and basically all of our grocery food items have trace amounts that persist. My mom taught me to wash all of our produce, but she should have suggested to use nitrile gloves while doing it.

 

Even our water sources have trace amounts of these chemicals... run off & over sray. Bottle watered even still has chems inside, even left over birth control pills that got flushed down the drain. Heck, buy a modern day bottle of wine & u will find trace amounts of every pesticide/fungicide used during production. We even leach unintended chemical byproducts from manufacturing of plastics like estrogenic compounds. Can't think of a modern industry that isn't polluting us, slowly & compounding.

 

Hundred years from now bet we will realize that the cumulative action of all of these chemical compounds has been to degrade our genetic dna, where our immune systems can't effectively fight off disease or cancer, or that we breed genetic mutations that increase the likelihood of abnormalities such as autism. We have daily exposures from every facet of our modern lives.

 

Just a thought... and that said, don't increase ur exposures just to make a buck, like every other industry in the world.

[Norby]

Sperm count is down on the men in Fla because of the shallow aquifer there.  Some fish are unisex population because of the hormones and estrogen mimicking compounds.  I'd be surprised if it wasn't happening now.  And some places it is much higher than trace amounts.

[trichcycler]

Hundred years from now bet we will realize that the cumulative action of all of these chemical compounds has been to degrade our genetic dna, where our immune systems can't effectively fight off disease or cancer, or that we breed genetic mutations that increase the likelihood of abnormalities such as autism. We have daily exposures from every facet of our modern lives.

past tense actually.... we've arrived, and only after a hundred years or so.

[MORE COWBELL]

Neem is Natural but Shrinks the Testes in Males...................... i wouldnt want that
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23353547
http://jms.org.br/PDF/v26n1a13.pdf
here are Just Two examples
usually there are other solutions usually involving more Labor or destroying tainted crops...

i am a Master Gardener from Seattle i learned years ago from friends, trial, error, and common sense, that just because its considered Organic by some does not mean it is good for us to consume............

Edited July 12, 2015 by MORE COWBELL

[trichcycler]

I made sure my testes avoided contact with neem when I used it. I hate when they shrink