Some Guidance Navigating Michigan

[VisitingFromCali]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm in the Grand Rapids area temporarily--from California originally. I have a California physician's recommendation for a number of issues (most people in California have a recommendation, not a card). Anyway, the law seems quite confusing as far as whether my recommendation is valid here.

 

Am I able to obtain my medicine here? It seems ambiguous, and that most dispenseries will not honor my California physician's recommendation.

 

Any guidance would be helpful.

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Jeremy

[t-pain]

a dr rec from california should be the same exact thing as a card here in michigan.

 

from our law:

 

 

(j) A registry identification card, or its equivalent, that is issued under the laws of another state, district, territory, commonwealth, or insular possession of the United States that allows the medical use of marihuana by a visiting qualifying patient, or to allow a person to assist with a visiting qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana, shall have the same force and effect as a registry identification card issued by the department.

 

have you tried going into dispensary with your dr rec? did they reject you?

imo they will reject everyone over the phone, but show up in person and maybe...

dont forget to bring your cali drivers license.

also try the delivery service if theres one there.

 

kinda pain in the donkey in michigan. everyones being cautious as our atty general is ap rick.

Edited January 7, 2015 by t-pain

[YesMichigan]

While your rec should be honored just as if it were a Michigan card that only applies to a legitimate c.g. assignment or possession of up to 2.5 ounces for the treatment of your condition.

 

The dispensary is unsanctioned and figuring everyone is a LEO. You can see a cop party getting together to organize the tactical strike "Send someone in with an out of state card, brilliant plan! That will get those dirty hippies!"

 

Smile often and be polite. In Michigan you are not protected by the law during a dispensary transaction. That applies to your helpful sales associate who doesn't want to sleep in jail tonight.

 

The good news is that selling it to you is just as illegal as selling it to anyone with a Michigan card. Maybe have the Michigan statute memorized or printed out to help allay their fears if they aren't knowledgeable with Michigan's reciprocity. Every time a dispensary opens their doors for a day it could be their last. You've walked on to the battlefield of the biggest issue in Michigan regarding MMj: Acquisition.

Edited January 7, 2015 by YesMichigan

[t-pain]

In Michigan you are not protected by the law during a dispensary transaction.

yesmichigan, actually the supreme court ruled in people v mcqueen that a patient is protected from buying marijuana from anyone, including black market drug dealers.

 

please keep your advice updated with the case law...

 

also, LARA says right on the forms and rules that caregivers can only register michigan residents. so there is some question of how someone is supposed to register a qualified visiting patient as our law allows for. basically we think LARA is doing something wrong.

Edited January 7, 2015 by t-pain

[YesMichigan]

yesmichigan, actually the supreme court ruled in people v mcqueen that a patient is protected from buying marijuana from anyone, including black market drug dealers.

 

please keep your advice updated with the case law...

 

also, LARA says right on the forms and rules that caregivers can only register michigan residents. so there is some question of how someone is supposed to register a qualified visiting patient as our law allows for. basically we think LARA is doing something wrong.

 

(2) To be eligible for immunity under § 4 of the MMMA, MCL 333.26424, a registered qualifying patient must be engaging in marijuana-related conduct for the

purpose of alleviating the patient’s own debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition.

 

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/sourcefiles/state-of-michigan-vs-mcqueen.pdfpage 23

 

Thank you! I apologize for being incorrect. I hope no harm befell the OP or any other member of this forum due to my error.

 

If I was going to fight to the end I would say that you don't have "Full" protection because the County Prosecutor wouldn't be likely to follow up on complaints you may have regarding the quality of merchandise. That's not me though and I do sincerely thank you for making me find and read that specific wording again. You'll forgive me if I would feel vulnerable as a customer in a dispensary transaction. McQueen does illustrate why we haven't seen the cops set up a dispensary to catch people with cards buying from them. There is a paradox of logic in this ruling that is giving me a headache at the moment.

 

The second part was my curiosity regarding it. The law seems to afford the out of state person rights to any marihuana they brought with them or find growing wild. Otherwise somebody is breaking the law providing it to them for their medical use.

[VisitingFromCali]

Thanks everyone for the quick response! My impression based on google searches was that dispenseries were unlikely to honor it. I was a bit concerned as MMj has replaced 3 pharma RXs for me, and I'd rather not have to go back to pharma!

 

Thanks again! btw...Are there any compassion clubs in the GR area?

[t-pain]

There is a paradox of logic in this ruling that is giving me a headache at the moment.

 

i wouldnt try to understand that ruling. its perplexing to infinity.

 

this is the paragraph i would quote to make it easier to understand.

footnote 60 on page 18:

 

60

Of course, a registered qualifying patient who acquires marijuana—whether from

another registered qualifying patient or even from someonewho is not entitled to possess

marijuana—to alleviate his owncondition can still receiveimmunity from arrest,

prosecution, or penalty because the § 4(d) presumption cannot be rebutted on that basis.

In this sense, § 4 immunity is asymmetric: it allows a registered qualifying patient to

obtain marijuana for his own medical use but does not allow him to transfer marijuana for

another registered qualifying patient’s use.

[t-pain]

Thanks again! btw...Are there any compassion clubs in the GR area?

 

there arent many clubs left in the entire state. did you try calling all of the places in weedmaps yet?

 

fun questionable legal theory, if you are going to be here long, your dr rec, being equivalent to a card here in michigan, should allow you to grow your own 12 plants here. well, better ask a lawyer first. (i am not a lawyer, do not take this as legal advice)

[YesMichigan]

 

this is the paragraph i would quote to make it easier to understand.

footnote 60 on page 18: "Of course, a registered qualifying patient who acquires marijuana—whether from

another registered qualifying patient or even from someone who is not entitled to possess

marijuana—to alleviate his own condition can still receive immunity from arrest,

prosecution, or penalty because the § 4(d) presumption cannot be rebutted on that basis.

333.26424 Section 4

(d) There shall be a presumption that a qualifying patient or primary caregiver is engaged in the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act if the qualifying patient or primary caregiver:

(1) is in possession of a registry identification card; and

(2) is in possession of an amount of marihuana that does not exceed the amount allowed under this act. The presumption may be rebutted by evidence that conduct related to marihuana was not for the purpose of alleviating the qualifying patient's debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition, in accordance with this act.

 

Sorry to sorta hijack the thread Cali. I figure some knowledge of the state law can't hurt given your question. Good luck and I hope you find the relief you are legally allowed to be provided!

[Beans]

Make arrangements in advance instead advocating innocent people to carry out advocacy? 

Just my 2 cents

[VisitingFromCali]

there arent many clubs left in the entire state. did you try calling all of the places in weedmaps yet?

 

fun questionable legal theory, if you are going to be here long, your dr rec, being equivalent to a card here in michigan, should allow you to grow your own 12 plants here. well, better ask a lawyer first. (i am not a lawyer, do not take this as legal advice)

 

Yeah, it's definitely not like California! lol  I haven't called any places, but I did try submitting my paperwork and everything online so we'll see how that goes....they're delivery only, so I would think they could do it as it sounds like legally they're protected. 

[VisitingFromCali]

333.26424 Section 4

(d) There shall be a presumption that a qualifying patient or primary caregiver is engaged in the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act if the qualifying patient or primary caregiver:

(1) is in possession of a registry identification card; and

(2) is in possession of an amount of marihuana that does not exceed the amount allowed under this act. The presumption may be rebutted by evidence that conduct related to marihuana was not for the purpose of alleviating the qualifying patient's debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition, in accordance with this act.

 

Sorry to sorta hijack the thread Cali. I figure some knowledge of the state law can't hurt given your question. Good luck and I hope you find the relief you are legally allowed to be provided!

 

 

Thanks! Much appreciated.

[trichcycler]

they're delivery only, so I would think they could do it as it sounds like legally they're protected.

don't get yourself wrapped up in a post delivery(?) scheme for best results.

[Natesilver]

For all intents and purposes, transferring to a nonresident with a CA rec is the same as transferring to a noncarded individual. There are no section 8 protections afforded. Keep in mind my continual advocacy regarding unregistered cg2p transfers as protected by section 8. Anyone transferring to someone with a CA rec is breaking the law (no sec 8 protections, whatsoever, zip, zilch, zero)

Edited January 8, 2015 by Natesilver

[Natesilver]

Why do you say that? 4(k) and 4(j) are not inconsistent with one another. It is definitely not the same.

So it is legal to transfer marijuana to a CA resident with a CA rec? Or perhaps are you just suggesting it is legal for the CA patient to possess mmj while in MI?

 

You've heard my reasoning (as well as Gregs) regarding the legality of an unregistered cg2p transfer. Can you please explain your reasoning for the legality of a transfer to a nonresident with a CA rec? I do not believe there is any sec 8 defense.

[Natesilver]

There is nothing about the affirmative defense that would disqualify an out-of-state registered patient or caregiver. What is it that you read in section 8 that leads you to that conclusion?

 

Also, section 4(j) says that a cardholding out-of-state patient may acquire and use, and 4(k) only disqualifies transfers to people who are not allowed to use under the MMMA.

Does CA have reciprocity with MI? Edited January 8, 2015 by Natesilver

[Natesilver]

Cool stuff. I only thought unregistered cg2p transfers between MI residents were protected under sec 8.

[Highlander]

Keep in mind that section 8 has specific language regarding the Doctor's recommendation, which is likely to differ from what is on your CA Doctor's letter.

[t-pain]

thanks zap, that clears it up nicely. i forgot visiting qualified patient has its own definition here.

 

to answer nates' question, california does not have reciprocity.

[Wild Bill]

Have there been many successful Sec. 8 defenses?

[trichcycler]

A provider has protections while transferring to op if op is not registered as a patient of said provider ? 

[trichcycler]

would they be the same "protections" offered to me if I was selling to carded patients who are NOT holding a card with my name on it?

Edited January 8, 2015 by grassmatch

[Natesilver]

Keep in mind that section 8 has specific language regarding the Doctor's recommendation, which is likely to differ from what is on your CA Doctor's letter.

This is one of the reasons I don't think a transfer to a visiting patient from another medical state has the same sec 8 protections as a MI unregistered cg2p transfer. What if the visiting patients qualifying condition is anxiety or insomnia in CA? What if there was no follow up care with certifying condition? I don't think you can transfer to a visiting patient and have the same sec 8 protections as a MI unregistered cg2p transfer.

[trichcycler]

interesting....

[trichcycler]

and more expensive too