Fear?

[YesMichigan]

slider7, on 05 Feb 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

Bud shops don't have errands to run. The bud shop isn't going to ignore your texts because you don't feel like doing anything that day.

 

Boom.  There it is.

 

I would add that I'm not aware of any caregivers with SuperCritical Co2 extraction equipment who are taking patients.

Edited February 6, 2015 by YesMichigan

[trichcycler]

unit with produce for sale?

pm me details?

[YesMichigan]

unit with produce for sale?

pm me details?

 

I envision an organization that would have caregivers bring in their product and have it extracted in a Co2 system. Some day. That day is definitely not today as far as I know. Just need to rent time on the machine - it isn't a very lengthy process. Seems a good business model that allows for home growing and a profit angle that would otherwise be lost as home growers would continue making their own extracts or just smoke reefer cigarettes.

 

There are a few units with produce for sale apparently though. No PM needed, Leafly or Weedmaps will give you directions to the "donation center" nearest to you where it is available in Sativa, Indica, Blend or specific strain.

[trichcycler]

yep got those, thanks. there are places to get your trim processed with c02, and those units are getting smaller and cheaper. I saw one recently here for twice what a tamisium costs, too bad it wasn't food safe, yet.

[YesMichigan]

yep got those, thanks. there are places to get your trim processed with c02, and those units are getting smaller and cheaper. I saw one recently here for twice what a tamisium costs, too bad it wasn't food safe, yet.

 

I figured there was but I have not sought them out. I am glad to know a caregiver like you knows about them. I figure it is still ten years away from being cheap enough for an average caregiver.

[Norby]

just to answer your question, based on the statistics we've dug up, 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/44629-new-stats-registry-id-cards-issued-for-fiscal-year-2014/

 

since we dont have total complete numbers anymore, heres a number from 1/31/2013 in the web archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/20130228081624/http://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,7-154-35299_63294_63303_51869---,00.html

 

 

 

126739 patients / by 26404 caregivers = 4.799 patients per caregiver.

 

there are exactly enough caregivers for the patients in the program.

which is i think what zap was saying.

 

and the other opinion from zap about dispensaries treading water makes sense in context.

where the context is the "dispensaries" that are not open yet to more than the 5 patients they are connected to.

 

there are a few of those kinds of "dispensaries" that arent really open yet, but they are paying rent and have fixed up a building and are getting ready for the bill to pass. realize that they did this last year, in anticipation of 4271, which was introduced in like march? so they have been paying rent for almost a year now in anticipation of opening. i know these businesses exist now because i've seen them in some of the city council meeting minutes for various cities. where the operators and attorneys for the operators are asking the city council for ordinances, zoning, permits, etc. all in anticipation for 4271.

 

obviously norby is talking about the dispensaries that are open now. so in a sense you are both right because you are talking about different dispensaries.

 

now where zap gets his info about patients mostly getting meds from caregiver relationships i dunno.

nor do i know where norby gets his info about patients mostly getting meds from dispensaries.

 

everything on craigslist is cg>pt. dispensaries arent advertising much yet.

most of the cases in court are cg+pt cases.

 

 

i think most patients get meds by growing themselves, stuffing both of your guesses! haha

i think LARA said there were ~20,000 patients in the program who were getting the reduced SSI fee (before they killed the reduced fee). do you think those 20,000 patients were buying from dispensaries or caregivers or growing their own?

 

it would be interesting to see some statistics , get some anonymous survey of MMMP going.

I never said mostly get their meds there, just that enough do it enough to keep them being able to remodel, the ones I go to seem to be thriving. But yes, I see what you mean.

[Norby]

close to galacticgardens?

Hemphill could be right next door and I wouldn't know.  I just punch in the address and drive.

Hemphill is in the industrial section so probably not the one your thinking.

[slider7]

We have ones you can rent time on in Michigan? SERIOUSLY? I remember seeing a video for this so long ago and just forgetting completely about it! Soooo cool.

 

 

 

Anyone have a spare 125k they don't need back for awhile? : D

 

 

See, if we started a med bank we could charge dues and save up buy one and put it in our facility for members to use. 

[slider7]

Closed-loop co2 extraction is the common name.

[slider7]

http://www.kindnessential.com/product-info.html

 

 

9k for the smallest one, wonder what the quality is? Does a pound of organic material an hour with a 30lb recovery tank. I'm guessing its this cheap because the system isn't contained like expensive ones, so your hoses and valves and stuff probably need to be cleaned pretty regularly. Not sure. 

[trichcycler]

the tabletop units don not recoup the c02, they blast it into the air. there is a recent thread here describing it and the operating costs. o rings, are the thing to be replaced, and c02 of course. They work well, not as efficient as a closed loop system, but produce a decent oil, mixed with frozen water that needs to be thawed then separated, but still a good product. the internal working pressures scare me when I envision the appliance man assembly line of wife and kids in a basement, attempting to build a medical device with the cheapest available parts while being timed. I recently located a person using one nearby after reading about a unit here. he loves it, the product is good, thin, but good.

None of the smaller units are food grade yet(?), meaning just refrigeration compressors, leaking oil, etc. they'll get better soon though.

There's a few Tamisium's around, some for rent in Ann Arbor I hear. Its the safest cleanest purest food grade solvent extraction process I seen.

[AbominableDro-Man]

If I ever find that I have an extra 2grand laying around I'll invest in a Tamisium  , it'd be the smallest model but hell, it'd work for my needs.

[hollywood420]

 

126739 patients / by 26404 caregivers = 4.799 patients per caregiver. Now subtract the number of caregivers from the patient count and redo the math 100,335 patients/26404 caregivers=3.799 per caregiver. So there is a obvious need for compassion centers and provision centers in our state. Growing is expensive and takes dedication and skill to produce quality usable meds. Our legislation needs to sign the bill allowing them to open.

[Restorium2]

126739 patients / by 26404 caregivers = 4.799 patients per caregiver. Now subtract the number of caregivers from the patient count and redo the math 100,335 patients/26404 caregivers=3.799 per caregiver. So there is a obvious need for compassion centers and provision centers in our state. Growing is expensive and takes dedication and skill to produce quality usable meds. Our legislation needs to sign the bill allowing them to open.

Like was stated several times; Yes, we need dispensaries. But the situation isn't that simple. We don't need them "At all costs".

[Wild Bill]

126739 patients / by 26404 caregivers = 4.799 patients per caregiver. Now subtract the number of caregivers from the patient count and redo the math 100,335 patients/26404 caregivers=3.799 per caregiver. So there is a obvious need for compassion centers and provision centers in our state. Growing is expensive and takes dedication and skill to produce quality usable meds. Our legislation needs to sign the bill allowing them to open.

 

As I've said before, I don't really have a dog in the dispensary fight, other than protecting my grow rights. I don't use them and don't care one way or the other if they even exist.

 

I do however fail to see any obvious need for them. Roughly four patients per caregiver means what? I don't use a caregiver nor am I a caregiver and I'm not the only one that falls into this category. There are also untold numbers of people growing outside the constraints of the act. Where do they come into the equation?

 

Dispensaries can be a handy adjunct but hardly indispensable. I've purchased hard candy before flying out of town but I could also make them at home. Purchasing anything else from them would be cost prohibitive. On bad days I need three to four grams to relieve my symptoms. I'd be out of cash after the first day.

 

I also disagree about the cost and difficulty of growing. It can be as expensive and difficult as you care to make it or as cheap and easy as throwing some seeds in the ground and coming back in the fall.

[YesMichigan]

As I've said before, I don't really have a dog in the dispensary fight, other than protecting my grow rights. I don't use them and don't care one way or the other if they even exist.

 

I do however fail to see any obvious need for them. Roughly four patients per caregiver means what? I don't use a caregiver nor am I a caregiver and I'm not the only one that falls into this category. There are also untold numbers of people growing outside the constraints of the act. Where do they come into the equation?

 

Dispensaries can be a handy adjunct but hardly indispensable. I've purchased hard candy before flying out of town but I could also make them at home. Purchasing anything else from them would be cost prohibitive. On bad days I need three to four grams to relieve my symptoms. I'd be out of cash after the first day.

 

I also disagree about the cost and difficulty of growing. It can be as expensive and difficult as you care to make it or as cheap and easy as throwing some seeds in the ground and coming back in the fall.

 

It's funny because I could say the same thing about my grow rights. I don't though because I care a lot that c.g.s be protected better than today and be allowed to provide the relief that they are uniquely qualified to cultivate. I would think you would say the same about caring because you know other mm patients are restricted in their access. "Let them eat cake"? (Lemon Cake preferably)

 

Why should medicine be restricted in its quality because someone signed up in 2012 and not 2009 so the best caregivers can't take new patients? Tell me a system in the world that would think medical access should be less effective because your problem was diagnosed later? What about the patient with a good caregiver but they need to see if a strain will help them and the c.g. can't accommodate for a few months? Logistics alone illustrate a need for Provisioning Centers to me.

 

Dispensaries are $200 an ounce, there may only be two or three strains from which to choose but that is the standard price most card and non-cardholders pay today for bud that would have been called "primo" five years ago.

 

Cost, difficulty, social stigma and LEO all come to mind for reasons I will likely not grow more than a few plants for myself until sensibility arrives to the process.

 

Even though I don't grow I support every caregiver in this state and their right to grow. I think I break in that I empathize with the patients who have no access to quality or safe medicine. Your only proposal to solving that problem is "It's not that hard, just wait five months to harvest so you can get relief new patient." or "Good luck on Craig's list finding a reputable c.g." Those aren't solutions to me.

 

You're the man and I can't believe on the opposite side of you when it comes to patient access. This tells me how much you love the dog in the fight (your grow rights). We need a thread or someplace that is a repository for every Bill and article that attacks home growing in Michigan or other states. I will be there in Lansing to oppose any attacks on your right to grow. Please help to keep me informed (everyone)

[GrowGoddess]

126739 patients / by 26404 caregivers = 4.799 patients per caregiver. Now subtract the number of caregivers from the patient count and redo the math 100,335 patients/26404 caregivers=3.799 per caregiver. So there is a obvious need for compassion centers and provision centers in our state. Growing is expensive and takes dedication and skill to produce quality usable meds. Our legislation needs to sign the bill allowing them to open.

 

In my opinion the numbers don't show that we need dispensaries. I believe the numbers show something else. It shows that not all caregivers are willing to take in their full load of patients. I only have 3 patients and I am really only growing for 2, at least when it comes to plant counts. I would be growing for 5, or more if I were allowed. I am very experienced, but the problem is not money or numbers. The problem is fear. I am afraid to grow more. I am afraid of being railroaded in the legal system.

 

How many more growers would take in patients or go legal if the laws were not so strict and we did not have the SWAT teams raiding homes over odors and tips of people having small amounts on their person? Then running through the legal system just to prove your innocence costs thousands. You can be considered a serious criminal just because you forgot to lock a door.

 

More and more it is starting to appear to me that this is our government's intention. To make us want dispensaries so that big business can take over. Then they can push low grade, radiated crap on the patients. Just like Canada. If I were to guess, that is what is coming next for us.

 

I just wish they would ease up on the war against growers and patients alike. If we were protected and had more freedom to help people, I don't believe patients would be having the problems they are having right now in accessing good, quality medicine. Would that not make a difference to patients if caregivers were allowed to give samples to card holding patients? Yes, the patients are protected, but what about the growers and caregivers? Nope! Why am I not allowed to provide free meds (samples) to a card holding patient that is not registered to me? It seems that compassion is straight up illegal in this fight. Why would that be? CONTROL. They are always a couple steps ahead of us. I believe the government wants control of all medicine and what we are seeing going down is all a part of their plan.

 

I don't think it is dispensaries we should be fighting for. We should be fighting for our freedom.

 

As for dispensaries supplying quality meds at $200/oz. I would have to see it to believe it. That is what my patients pay if they want anything additional to their free monthly amount. I am not making any profit really. I don't see how they can run a dispensary, sell it that cheap, and make a profit.

 

Maybe I am just being paranoid due to the stories I have read about and heard about, but because of the law, and the way it is treated, I have downsized. Due to the COA ruling, I have stopped making oil and helping cancer patients. I can no longer provide oil made products to my patients. That is just sickening. I treat my growing and oil making as if it is 100% illegal due to fear. I surly don't have the funds to prove my innocence in the courtroom.

 

Anyway, back to taking a few puffs from my oil soaked hooter. I was going to save it for tonight, but it just kept calling to me.

[bobandtorey]

Dispensaries are $200 an ounce Lol i am sorry but no where i know of and i go to a lot of them not to buy just to hang out because i happen to know the owners and the sleeves are full of just about any thing you could want or need nothing like  $200  OZ

[GregS]

When all the dust settles, we here are pretty well committed to say fuk that. We do not abide our adversaries patiently or quietly.

[trichcycler]

I mop my joints too, but holy moly you phaquing gluttonous pig  !   just look at that dipped schlong!   enjoy my friend

[YesMichigan]

Dispensaries are $200 an ounce Lol i am sorry but no where i know of and i go to a lot of them not to buy just to hang out because i happen to know the owners and the sleeves are full of just about any thing you could want or need nothing like  $200  OZ

 

As for dispensaries supplying quality meds at $200/oz. I would have to see it to believe it. That is what my patients pay if they want anything additional to their free monthly amount. I am not making any profit really. I don't see how they can run a dispensary, sell it that cheap, and make a profit.

 

 

I could link it but I think that is a violation of policy. Not sure and not gonna risk it when 30 seconds of searching Weedmaps or Leafly will get you the address of a location you can acquire it at that price, you need to be willing to drive to Detroit though (not a bad area at all). I don't talk out of my arse and if I do I'll tell you I am.

 

Silver Haze or Purple Diesel are the two strains available today for $200 an ounce. Probably cheaper as they advertise it $25 for an 1/8th and smaller "donations" are accepted I an attest.

[GrowGoddess]

I mop my joints too, but holy moly you phaquing gluttonous pig  !   just look at that dipped schlong!   enjoy my friend

 

LOL!

 

 

2 x 4 joint. 2 different naturally decarbed oils on the paper and 4 different strains ground together in the grinder.

 

Unfortunately, there is some truth to the gluttonous pig comment! It is very wasteful using the oil like this. Even rolling a giant joint is kind of wasteful. I can only take a couple of puffs then have to put it down.

 

Really enjoyable and fun to smoke, but, wasteful. That amount of oil on the paper if eaten would keep me baked for a week!

 

Once and a while though, what the heck? It has been a tough winter so far.

[GrowGoddess]

I could link it but I think that is a violation of policy. Not sure and not gonna risk it when 30 seconds of searching Weedmaps or Leafly will get you the address of a location you can acquire it at that price, you need to be willing to drive to Detroit though (not a bad area at all). I don't talk out of my arse and if I do I'll tell you I am.

 

Silver Haze or Purple Diesel are the two strains available today for $200 an ounce. Probably cheaper as they advertise it $25 for an 1/8th and smaller "donations" are accepted I an attest.

 

I am not doubting the price, but I do doubt the quality. Strain names are meaningless to quality.

 

I would guess it was grown outdoors or worse. It may be top notch to some. I would have to see it and try it before deeming it worthy for medicinal purposes. Call me a snob, I have been called worse.

[YesMichigan]

I am not doubting the price, but I do doubt the quality. Strain names are meaningless to quality.

 

I would guess it was grown outdoors or worse. It may be top notch to some. I would have to see it and try it before deeming it worthy for medicinal purposes. Call me a snob, I have been called worse.

 

Called worse by better I'm sure...hehe...snob on! Wear it as a badge of honor and expertise, I say. I have no beef with your position at all and I'm all for stringent testing or at least analysis available for customers to know what they are buying.

 

Names are stupid, I love MrD when he gets on those rants. You are correct though that the $200 per oz. are not on the High THC chart which makes one think they are less than 16% (the lowest on their analysis page). A 24% Delta-9 will run 15-20 per gram so $115 on average for a quarter we can say. How does a person signing on to the program today acquire that potency of medicine if the "snobs" already have five patients?

 

I feel terrible for what I helped cancer patients acquire in the '90s. The "Silver Haze" or whatever is 5x more potent and 10x more tasty.

 

I am curious, your average strain's THC - everyone's average strain if they've had them tested.

[bobandtorey]

In my opinion the numbers don't show that we need dispensaries. I believe the numbers show something else. It shows that not all caregivers are willing to take in their full load of patients. I only have 3 patients and I am really only growing for 2, at least when it comes to plant counts. I would be growing for 5, or more if I were allowed. I am very experienced, but the problem is not money or numbers. The problem is fear. I am afraid to grow more. I am afraid of being railroaded in the legal system.

 

How many more growers would take in patients or go legal if the laws were not so strict and we did not have the SWAT teams raiding homes over odors and tips of people having small amounts on their person? Then running through the legal system just to prove your innocence costs thousands. You can be considered a serious criminal just because you forgot to lock a door.

 

More and more it is starting to appear to me that this is our government's intention. To make us want dispensaries so that big business can take over. Then they can push low grade, radiated crap on the patients. Just like Canada. If I were to guess, that is what is coming next for us.

 

I just wish they would ease up on the war against growers and patients alike. If we were protected and had more freedom to help people, I don't believe patients would be having the problems they are having right now in accessing good, quality medicine. Would that not make a difference to patients if caregivers were allowed to give samples to card holding patients? Yes, the patients are protected, but what about the growers and caregivers? Nope! Why am I not allowed to provide free meds (samples) to a card holding patient that is not registered to me? It seems that compassion is straight up illegal in this fight. Why would that be? CONTROL. They are always a couple steps ahead of us. I believe the government wants control of all medicine and what we are seeing going down is all a part of their plan.

 

I don't think it is dispensaries we should be fighting for. We should be fighting for our freedom.

 

As for dispensaries supplying quality meds at $200/oz. I would have to see it to believe it. That is what my patients pay if they want anything additional to their free monthly amount. I am not making any profit really. I don't see how they can run a dispensary, sell it that cheap, and make a profit.

 

Maybe I am just being paranoid due to the stories I have read about and heard about, but because of the law, and the way it is treated, I have downsized. Due to the COA ruling, I have stopped making oil and helping cancer patients. I can no longer provide oil made products to my patients. That is just sickening. I treat my growing and oil making as if it is 100% illegal due to fear. I surly don't have the funds to prove my innocence in the courtroom.

 

Anyway, back to taking a few puffs from my oil soaked hooter. I was going to save it for tonight, but it just kept calling to me.

So true 

 

I am afraid of being railroaded in the legal system i also am and i have been their as many here know 1,500 days of it but if we do get a great ruling from the High Court i will feel better about growing and many more would also the risk is just too much right now but i here on this site that most feel it is not still happening and the Law is working just fine i can say the calls i would get our getting less and most are about selling cannabis i did here of one a few weeks ago he was legal and is about to file a Law suit against the State i don't think it will work out for him and i told him Leo is coming back to his home soon if he did it