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Genetic Drift


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I am just asking how likely it is that a perpetual cloning grower is going to create these conditions? I just know so many who aren't even that careful and they are not beset by mutations. What does it actually take to get a mutation that is detectable by a human?

very unlikely in my experience as a dirty cloner, in the garden, perpetually cloning from a clone. I've never detected a "mutation" in my garden, unless it was purposeful., like tomatoes with potatoes on the roots and such.

I notice subtle differences sometimes but nothing anyone would fret over in a lifetime most likely.

From a science view though, its most likely the dna is changed each time, as is ours when the right vector carries the right contamination into our genome.

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have two strains one 9yrs  old   one 6yrs  no noticeable diff to me. same yield at least for last, three yrs  that ive kept track. these have been mothers till they get too big then clone replaces them, how many cycles ? a lot, im clean but far from sterile, including blades to cut clones. now back a while ago  I had a strain for two and half yrs . woman threw me out all I got was one light and my mother, January no time to warm up car, plant FROZE all leaves screwed , brought back couple months tlc, completely ruined the plant, barley budded kina like dr. grinspoon  only it was a indica ? tried for three runs hoping but never came back? is this a mutation from stress?

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soon as Garyfisher sends me one of those new fandangle DNA Checkers, maybe Model Number 420, we'll all be able to see the wonderful world

of genetics as a scientist does. My albino bunnies parent bred for 6 years before retirement and their babies always looked identical, but we all know they were not, at least at the genetic level. very similar, and without a dna checker could fool anyone.

 

no idea what happened to your baby pant, could be as you suggest, or a hundred other reasons too.

Edited by grassmatch
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I concur 100%. genetic drift, as spoken of by local growers since 2008, is often another word for "I have no idea what happened to this harvest"(couldn't be me or my habits, so it must be "genetic drift")

 

 

but !

 

I don't claim  to know why now, so don't ask me to explain. about once yearly I refresh my stock with fresh cultures, (because that's what I do for some reason, maybe as a practice in culture)  which always show a "better plant" when compared.

Not bigger, not more more potent, not "healthier", just "better" all around, to me.   this is what I base some changes on .

barely noticeable I admit, until I refresh, the changes are minutely detectable, and only when put up against a "new" cultivar. Nobody has ever said "wow, what happened to that OG #18, its so much better than the last time, so grain of salt with this one.

 

I'll spring for a dna test one day of an old gal, vs a newly cultured one, and compare that here hopefully. its expensive now, but is coming down. I somehow know there will be a marked difference in the tests, imo. but who knows.

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I concur 100%. genetic drift, as spoken of by local growers since 2008, is often another word for "I have no idea what happened to this harvest"(couldn't be me or my habits, so it must be "genetic drift")

 

 

but !

 

I don't claim  to know why now, so don't ask me to explain. about once yearly I refresh my stock with fresh cultures, (because that's what I do for some reason, maybe as a practice in culture)  which always show a "better plant" when compared.

Not bigger, not more more potent, not "healthier", just "better" all around, to me.   this is what I base some changes on .

barely noticeable I admit, until I refresh, the changes are minutely detectable, and only when put up against a "new" cultivar. Nobody has ever said "wow, what happened to that OG #18, its so much better than the last time, so grain of salt with this one.

 

I'll spring for a dna test one day of an old gal, vs a newly cultured one, and compare that here hopefully. its expensive now, but is coming down. I somehow know there will be a marked difference in the tests, imo. but who knows.

Honestly, I think it's the strains you are using. Try an old elite strain sometime. If you did try to 'refresh it' in a year you would find you wasted your time because she stayed 'fresh'. 

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The one thing I do see, and quite quickly on some, is the tendency to want to flower in veg and lower leaf numbers.  I had a 20+ year old clone of "the Kind" back in NY and no matter what, she wouldn't veg over a foot and didn't yield over an ounce.  Even outdoors. And never got more than 3 leaves.  And it was a racey sativa.

Edited by Norby
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Inbreeding establishes a pure breed. A pure breed has consistent chromosomes. That is, the genetic makeup of offspring is relatively uniform. This true or pure breed is necessary so common growth characteristics may be established. If the plants are not a pure breed, it will be impossible to predict the outcome of the hybrid plant. After the 4th to 6th generation of inbreeding, negative characteristics, like low potency, legginess and lack of vigor tend to dominate. Inbreeding is necessary to establish a true breed, but has been shied away from after the strain has been established.

Inbreeding establishes a stable reference point or plant to start from. The chosen females are bred back (back crossed) with males of the same strain. This will establish a true breed, plants with the same growth characteristics. These plants, of known ancestry and growth characteristics will be used to breed hybrid plants.

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Either cite your resource/s or stop speaking as if you are the authority on the subject Resto...

just stop spouting off things that are of your opinion as if it is fact, smh.

I'm the authority on what I see with the strains I have. I received these strains with their back story. Is it such a stretch to take me at my word? If so then don't read my posts and find something else to complain about. 

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could be, who knows for sure?

I've grown most every cup winner, and much of the attitude offerings. Although none of those may be a landrace, I believed some were, and same experience with those as each other. I started my garden with all those "landrace" strains there, but who knows what they really are, or even what my strains really are for that matter. I never been to Afghanistan so.... I only keep around 25 different strains at one time, but I do cycle those with others every week. not sure if that scenario is correct resto, but I have no way of "proving" any of it, we'll have to wait for a dna checker I think to be sure, or not fuss with it at all.

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could be, who knows for sure? I've grown most every cup winner, and much of the attitude offerings. Although none of those may be a landrace, I believed some were, and same experience with those as each other. I started my garden with all those "landrace" strains there, but who knows what they really are, or even what my strains really are for that matter. I never been to Afghanistan so.... I only keep around 25 different strains at one time, but I do cycle those with others every week. not sure if that scenario is correct resto, but I have no way of "proving" any of it, we'll have to wait for a dna checker I think to be sure, or not fuss with it at all.

I don't really care about the DNA if it does not change how it grows and it's effects. Those things are what matters to me. I have grown all those attitude strains too but not long enough to see if they changed. Most of them I only grew for a few cycles. OG18 was around for maybe 5. But original OG Kush is so much better I got rid of OG18.

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The motive for most cross breeds is to take a high potency strain and cross it with a high producing strain to increase yield. I find that the increased yield just watered down the effects. That's what I found with OG 18.  I don't trust the new breeders to do as good a job as the breeders that produced the original killer strains like Chem D, OG Kush, and the real deal Headband(Original Diesel). I don't think they take the time and trouble to make them completely stable to last the test of decades of cloning. Or maybe the old breeders got lucky or were blessed? Either way you sure can tell the difference if you have the grail to compare.

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you are correct .....who cares if its unnoticed? I agree. except a professional breeder may care imo.

Right. I'm not a breeder and do not have their knowledge. I'm just a grower and consumer with the resources to review them. A breeder does have to depend on folks like me though. They can't be successful on paper alone. Well, if no one is willing to stand up with what they see they can be ...

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So Dr. Greens Iranian auto is bad breeding?  Why must you trash things always?  Iranian auto is more for outdoors but is not the result of bad breeding.  And from what I read OG? maybe ChemD came from bagseed at a dead show.  The plusherry I have was from Black Cherry Soda and Space Queen.  It was a hybrid.  You hybridize for incresed vigor and a larger gene pool.  Inbred lines aren't superior they are just different for different applications. Just because it doesn't last long before wanting to flower is not because of bad breeding. 

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So Dr. Greens Iranian auto is bad breeding?  Why must you trash things always?  Iranian auto is more for outdoors but is not the result of bad breeding.  And from what I read OG? maybe ChemD came from bagseed at a dead show.  The plusherry I have was from Black Cherry Soda and Space Queen.  It was a hybrid.  You hybridize for incresed vigor and a larger gene pool.  Inbred lines aren't superior they are just different for different applications. Just because it doesn't last long before wanting to flower is not because of bad breeding. 

It is what it is. If it drifts easily it is bad breeding. I didn't write specifically about any strains I don't know about from experience. 

I have the whole back story on the real deal old Chem D I have and it's not from bag seed and it doesn't change effects or growing tendancies over time.

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