Genetic Drift

[Norby]

You also have pheno

 

It is what it is. If it drifts easily it is bad breeding. I didn't write specifically about any strains I don't know about from experience. 

I have the whole back story on the real deal old Chem D I have and it's not from bag seed and it doesn't change effects or growing tendancies over time.

First off your attributing something to drift which is not drift.  It's a trait.  Your comment on plants wanting to flower easily as inferior breeding was a judgement call on what you don't like in a strain and chalking it up to inferior breeding by your standards.

If you don't want people to call you on being a know it all, you should phrase your words better.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Norby

[Restorium2]

You also have pheno

 

First off your attributing something to drift which is not drift.  It's a trait.  Your comment on plants wanting to flower easily as inferior breeding was a judgement call on what you don't like in a strain and chalking it up to inferior breeding by your standards.

I said generally that genetic drift is poor breeding. You just misunderstood me and decided I was attacking your strain. It's your strain review. Tell us all about it. I know nothing. I said nothing specific about your strain. I'm all ears.

[Restorium2]

Maybe we should start here. For the purpose of discussion here, in my opinion; Genetic drift means to me that traits have changed over time and cloning cycles.

[trichcycler]

certainly, but not purposely achieved at home, at least not with target accuracy, if one wishes to cause these changes.

 

 

keep scalpels alcohol/flame clean, same with the surface we work with, clone in a aero/rockwool/sponge/rooter, etc, rather than dirt.

and if possible clone outside of the garden. recall that I do not practice this, perhaps only to justify my ridiculous expense of managing cultures to

refresh the stock at will?  

I doubt much that any legal grower would ever see any evidence of dna changes in their garden lifetime, but they do exist for sure. who cares really?

 

I do, but really only because of the expense of managing my library. I need really clean genetics when breeding so I like to start with a fresh culture before I gather pollen, just in case we score a gem form the union. This gem would be cultured forever so starting with clean dna sounds best to me. only my opinions though, I never went to culture school, or grow school, and only practice what I've learned from books.

 

if a grower wanted to see an exaggerated expression of genetic manipulation it could be as easy as a scalpel dip into the local Crown Gall local infection in a nearby tree.  the exciting part about this is you never know what kind of mutant may result. some may be really out of this world, and some might show no difference.

 

example, if the  agrobacterium is cultured, fed ecoli, then say, a GFP(green floro protein), with some luck this expression could be transferred into the dna downlink forever, the way it is with many commercial plants today.

 

I attempted to upload two pics, one of a crown gall diseased cannabis plant and another of the GFP expression, but "error was returned"  might try again tomorrow

 

this is Cannabis Crown Gall disease for reference.

[garyfisher]

In your faqing face:

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110804212931.htm

[trichcycler]

"the genomes of regenerant plants carry relatively high frequencies of new DNA sequence mutations that were not present in the genome of the donor plant."

[Restorium2]

Food for thought;

 

DNA is always changing. Your DNA today is not the same as it will be tomorrow. You can tell in the long run because you age. So detecting a change in DNA doesn't mean that a clone will have different traits than the mother plant. The changes could be so small you can detect them but can't see them.

[garyfisher]

Why Clone Plants May Not Be Identical To Their Mother

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/50117-why-clone-plants-may-not-be-identical-to-their-mother/?p=548335

Edited February 25, 2016 by imiubu

[garyfisher]

 

Cloning doesn't change DNA. You are mistaken and something else is responsible for the changes you are seeing. 

 

Food for thought;

 

DNA is always changing. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by garyfisher

[Restorium2]

The change doesn't have to be from cloning. DNA changes for many reasons. 

[pergamum362]

Choc chunk or may be an appolo, still unclear. Got it about six years ago, it gets cloned from clone about five to six times a year, sometimes double that. If anyone is familiar with gg#4, it grows and looks exactly like it save for the smell, so six years and its still the same, still grows faster than most everything else ive run, even fresh seeds. Now from time to time, some of them do funky things like not branch etc etc, but thats maybe one out of 50.

[Willy]

Choc chunk or may be an appolo, still unclear. Got it about six years ago, it gets cloned from clone about five to six times a year, sometimes double that. If anyone is familiar with gg#4, it grows and looks exactly like it save for the smell, so six years and its still the same, still grows faster than most everything else ive run, even fresh seeds. Now from time to time, some of them do funky things like not branch etc etc, but thats maybe one out of 50.

apollo is largely know for being "viney"  it grows a tangle of light weigh branches, then fills in and hangs if not tied up.  As far as drift, I am up in the air over it, I feel that as clones appear they grow to the style you grow., so over a few years they either get more manageable, by you/mine design. From clipping and training. every strain i grow seems to mature to me over a couple years., i clone from clones, not a mother.. so i think drift is just due to us as growers,     ..   the better you get at growing a geno or strain, the more they respond to us.. its a management thing ,, again JMHO

 

The end result is it grows how we grow it. And we call it genetic drift.. LOL

Edited May 8, 2016 by Willy

[pergamum362]

apollo is largely know for being "viney"  it grows a tangle of light weigh branches, then fills in and hangs if not tied up.

Sounds like exactly like it. Itll be in my garden until i dont have one.

[Kingdiamond]

I once had an original cut of Dr Greenthumbs Endless Sky I took cuttings off of her for close to 3 years  but towards the last run I noticed definite changes in the plants structure  and potency I love this strain and ordered more from Doc and it just doesnt  resemble  taste or feel like that original cut I got out of Ann Arbor from a member here it was killer  medicine but not the same.

[trichcycler]

I once had an original cut of Dr Greenthumbs Endless Sky I took cuttings off of her for close to 3 years  but towards the last run I noticed definite changes in the plants structure  and potency I love this strain and ordered more from Doc and it just doesnt  resemble  taste or feel like that original cut I got out of Ann Arbor from a member here it was killer  medicine but not the same.

happens to the best of us.

 

I subscribe to dirty cloning, genetic drift etc for these changes, but when the chosen cloning all of a sudden changes, consistently, constantly, noticeable changes in growth and clone viability, we know the score. At this time I reach for a chunk of cleaned cultured cannabis of the same strain, and the problem disappears. The new plant line is revived with vigor and a new take on expressions, for a few years, then repeat.

 

other times, getting a supply of seeds, for instance, og kush #18 one year, then again in another year, the two packs are often different performing genetics.

I suspect we count heavily on the breeding skills of the breeder, as well as near perfect and identical environment in the grow room....so that each seed run is almost the same results.

I can breed seeds in a less than desirable conditions and see the same issues, high/low humidity, temps, c02 availability, and more all play their part in the pairing of genetics and the seed run outcome.