Jump to content


Photo

Most Efficient And Easiest Way To Extract


  • Please log in to reply
167 replies to this topic

#1 sconel

sconel

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 03:16 PM

Hey folks...looking for an opinion on the best way to extract from trim, or even whole bud. I've been growing for 40 yrs, fairly steadily, and got that part down to perfection. Have used bubble bags for decades (working on the 3rd set) and get AAA quality bubble that's always spoken for long before its even produced. Also have made up several dozen large batches of budder with good results.

 

Have NOT ever experimented with any other ways of extracting concentrates with solvents at all, and wonder if that could be a better way to get the best and most from say....a couple lbs of trim or bud?

Not interested in hiring an extraction company to have it done for a price...this has to be 100% my own project and equipment, and truthfully...am very happy with the bubble bags yield and quality, but am wondering if using a solvent method would yield more end product? There are a few new "buzzwords" for extracts and methods, so wonder if maybe any new super productive methods may be more productive and potent. 

 

 Solvents always scared me a little so stayed away from them. Danger of fire, and harmfull vapors and fumes seemed like more hassle than I wanted to undertake, but if some new extraction method is head and shoulders above making bubble hash as far as yield or potency, may give it a try. Have sorta checked out Shatter, BHO, and Simpson Oil methods, but not in depth, and wonder if its going to be worth the extra effort, and changing to a new method.

 

 

 

 



#2 Kingdiamond

Kingdiamond

    Underground in the Hood!

  • Forum Leaders
  • 6,533 posts
  • Location"New Detroit"

Posted 20 April 2015 - 03:22 PM

Extracts are currently illegal tread lightly .


  • flower pharm likes this

#3 Malamute

Malamute

    Advanced Member

  • +CC-Dickinson
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,489 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 03:53 PM

I would stick with water extraction personally.  Clean, pure, easy.

 

 Solvents can strip a lot of unwanted items. 

 

 But solvents will extract "more" if money is the concern.

 

A lot of trichomes are not recovered in water extraction, but what ya get is divine. :-)

 

 But many prefer using solvents as well.

 

I suppose this is just another coke v pepsi discussion.

 

Oil or Kief?



#4 t-pain

t-pain

    Advanced Member

  • Supporters
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,436 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 03:57 PM

co2 extractions are the new rage. at least theres nothing toxic about it, although it is under pressure. bubble hash or dry sift is the tried and true method. dont forget to eat your buds raw! and juice your leaves.
  • suneday11 likes this

#5 sconel

sconel

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:01 PM

Thank you Malamute for the information. I guess this topic is off subject to even discuss here because I got a "time out" for posting my question. Don't understand how I violated the rules by simply asking a question about marijuana extracts in a marijuana extract forum, but no biggie.


  • trichcycler likes this

#6 Kingdiamond

Kingdiamond

    Underground in the Hood!

  • Forum Leaders
  • 6,533 posts
  • Location"New Detroit"

Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:08 PM

Time out ? <_<

 

Was telling you to tread lightly for your own safety not anything to do with this forum . :))



#7 Quadcarl

Quadcarl

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 195 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:55 PM

This is what they're turning to in states where concentrates are legal. From a production standpoint no potential residues or accidental kaboom.

From a consumer standpoint no clue, never had the pleasure of trying co2 but it must be good if people are paying upwards of $150,000 for one of these setups.

http://www.apekssupercritical.com

And then there's this company out of Washington, personally I think this is an amazing service and these guys are on "cutting" edge. What a great idea, considering you are advised to scedule a year in advance on their website there's obviously a demand and I bet they make over a million a year with their mobile facility. Friggin genius!!!

http://www.allstrain.com

Bubble hash is awesome too though :)

#8 trichcycler

trichcycler

    Advanced Member

  • Supporters
  • PipPipPip
  • 11,934 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:20 PM

mechanical separation is safest and yields are dependent on material "quality" used. These yields are typically higher because of the rogue plant material that stays with the concentrate. I prefer a dry sift with proper micron screening to avoid the whole water exposure part.

 

As long as the extract is within legal weights I don't see them as illegal, but ask Zap, he'll let you know. the hoopla is about being able to weigh the active controlled ingredients infused within an edible for example, that weights more by itself than the allowed amount of possession.

 

A solvent extraction may be "cleaner" and more "potent" by weight as it may lack plant material. One major issue using solvents is guaranteed removal, which relies on weights and measures, high temps, or time. Another is flammability, toxicity, legality,  fumes. Not many solvents are human friendly when ingested/inhaled so a proper removal/reclaim is an absolute must. NButane is expensive and difficult to purchase but is the polarity king for our purpose because it targets ingredients we seek accurately. Canned butane is for sale at many stores, cheap too, might be purity issues, not sure. 99% iso is readily available, a little lower on the polarity list, but makes a fine concentrate. I wouldn't suggest going into any other type of "at home" solvent use without rotational evaporators, Tamisium, EdenLabs or other lab approved extraction systems

 

A Honey Bee extractor is a superb intro to canned butane extraction yielding as well as any. Cannabis and butane temps will dial this little gem to perfection.

"Pollen Extractor" on amazon is the bomb for a fast shake mechanical extraction and yields are better than my hash bags every time. Trichs are ready to use immediately and no water issues.

 

stay safe


  • phaquetoo and Norby like this

#9 sconel

sconel

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:26 PM

Maybe I didn't get a time out.....After my 1st post, I accidently logged out right away, but couldn't log back in a few minutes,  and had a mesg saying I had to wait 15 minutes to log back in. Maybe that is an anti spam or anti robot method??

 

Good to know it wasn't a time out! I've seen a couple sites in the past get SO paranoid about NEVER allowing any "illegal activity", for fear of being hassled by authorities, that they literally drove their members away and had to shut down.  I remember asking a similar question once long ago at Marihemp website after it was sold to new owners, and i was banned from that site for a day because the moderator (wrongly) thought my question was somehow leading up to a sale. HUH? They continued banning folks for imaginary infractions in the minds of a couple mods. The site didn't last but a couple years after that.

 

I can see where allowing open sales, buying and selling cannabis on any website could be an invitation for an overzealous cop or prosecutor right now. Maybe when pot is finally legalized as recreational we wont have the same scrutiny and hassles from the authorities.

 

That imaginary slap on my patties feels much better now.

 

 


  • phaquetoo likes this

#10 Kingdiamond

Kingdiamond

    Underground in the Hood!

  • Forum Leaders
  • 6,533 posts
  • Location"New Detroit"

Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:31 PM

Its more of a fear of someone not getting the right information regarding the MM law if we allow bad info or not enlighten someone of the laws status bad things can happen to ones life we just try to prepare people  to insure their prepared to walk the line and be safe.


  • keylan and flower pharm like this

#11 sconel

sconel

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:37 PM

I see a couple more replys, and wanted to thank you all! Think it may be best for me to just stick with bubble bags. I don't hear or see any method that seems "head and shoulders" above them, as far as yield or quality, so we will stick with what we got, and know about.



#12 zapatosunidos

zapatosunidos

    Advanced Member

  • Administrators
  • 8,461 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:43 PM

Education is very important on this issue. The police are floating a couple of truly stupid legal theories right now based on the Carruthers ruling, and nobody wants to get caught up in these type of test cases. The most disturbing case is in Ottawa County, where a patient has been charged with possession of synthetic THC, which is still schedule 1 in Michigan, for a thumbprint of "residue." Last week, the lab technician testified in the case to what seem like political shenanigans based on the Carruthers ruling regarding cannabis oil. It is an evolving problem.


  • GregS likes this

#13 MightyMightyMezz

MightyMightyMezz

    Revolution of Consciousness

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,617 posts
  • LocationParts Unknown

Posted 20 April 2015 - 05:50 PM

Dry ice with bubble bags and no water will yield way more but the quality will probably take a hit. 



#14 trichcycler

trichcycler

    Advanced Member

  • Supporters
  • PipPipPip
  • 11,934 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 06:28 PM

what happens with the "quality" ?


  • GrowGoddess likes this

#15 hempchefff

hempchefff

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 20 April 2015 - 06:50 PM

Dry ice with bubble bags and no water will yield way more but the quality will probably take a hit. 

Personally I love this method, I use my bubble bags and a lettuce container (tupperware) just be sure to have a surface big enough to catch all the trich's... after i use a pollen press to form into discs then wrap in plastic/foil. there are additional steps to change it to different forms (wax/food ready) but i have never noticed any quality loss from this method. in addition, you can process all the green material left into budder, and in addition to the addition you can use both to dial in the exact ratio that makes edibles work best for you. Want to crash for the night, use the budder without the hash, need a lift in the afternoon, use less budder and add more of the hash.

 

The only "issue" i had was over shaking my first couple batches resulting in some leaf material filtering through. I fixed that by stopping short of a full shake to gather the trichs before it tinted green, then continued to shake to harvest the rest, which is what i used for cooking. Keep in mind that different micron bags will produce different levels, just like water hash.

 

And, Dry Ice is soooo much cheaper than any other method! no water, no energy to make ice, no energy to use a drill/mixer, no delay in post processing waiting for the trich's to dry out....


  • Hempcheff and beourbud like this

#16 GrowGoddess

GrowGoddess

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,105 posts
  • LocationCentral Michigan

Posted 20 April 2015 - 06:59 PM

Hey folks...looking for an opinion on the best way to extract from trim, or even whole bud. I've been growing for 40 yrs, fairly steadily, and got that part down to perfection. Have used bubble bags for decades (working on the 3rd set) and get AAA quality bubble that's always spoken for long before its even produced. Also have made up several dozen large batches of budder with good results.

 

Have NOT ever experimented with any other ways of extracting concentrates with solvents at all, and wonder if that could be a better way to get the best and most from say....a couple lbs of trim or bud?

Not interested in hiring an extraction company to have it done for a price...this has to be 100% my own project and equipment, and truthfully...am very happy with the bubble bags yield and quality, but am wondering if using a solvent method would yield more end product? There are a few new "buzzwords" for extracts and methods, so wonder if maybe any new super productive methods may be more productive and potent. 

 

 Solvents always scared me a little so stayed away from them. Danger of fire, and harmfull vapors and fumes seemed like more hassle than I wanted to undertake, but if some new extraction method is head and shoulders above making bubble hash as far as yield or potency, may give it a try. Have sorta checked out Shatter, BHO, and Simpson Oil methods, but not in depth, and wonder if its going to be worth the extra effort, and changing to a new method.

 

I will offer my two cents!

 

I notice you mention quality (potency) and quantity. That is kind of irrelevant without knowing more details. What is it you want the product (concentrate or oil) for? What would the purpose be? Profit, novelty, medicine, recreation? Those questions must be answered first to be able to properly answer your question.

 

I have not tried or made all of the different types of oils or concentrates, but I have pretty much made and tried every type of alcohol extraction. I haven't been growing for 40 years, but do have more than 15 straight years of experience in growing and 5 of those years of experience in making concentrates. My first goal was potency, I had to try it for myself to believe it. After watching Run From the Cure, I decided to give it a try and make the best oil I could with the best product I had. As far as I am concerned, it exceeded what the people in the video were saying in regards to potency. Although, Rick was using outdoor grown buds, I only used top shelf, organically grown, indoor garden buds which were very well manicured. I found that eating or ingesting oil is way more efficient than smoking or vaping buds or oil or dabs. Most people just want only a 2-4 hour buzz, for relief. Following the RSO method, my end product provided about 6-8 hours of feeling medicated. Switching to half naturally decarbed oil, that provided a medicated feeling for up to 24 hours. Now that I don't use any heat in my process, minimal filtering, no winterizing, and 100% organic (utilizing 200 proof organic ethanol as a solvent) I call it ND Sap or naturally decarbed sap, now it can provide 48-72 hour medicated effects. All were the same size dose, about a rice grain size dose, with the exception of the last type of oil (ND sap), where the doses have been smaller. Also, the doses have been taken either every day or at least every other day to produce these effects. Just taking a single dose for the first time, it would probably require more to get the same or similar effects. Myself and one of my other patients have both had the same experience with the different oils.

 

When it comes to medicinal use, you will not get the full effects from bubble hash. You will be missing one of the best, most important ingredients, which I believe is at least comparable to THC and CBD. There are at least 133 known terpenes in cannabis and with a cold water extraction, you will not be extracting the terpenes, at least not the majority of them. Alcohol does extract the terpenes as well as additional elements. Alcohol doesn't extract a lot of the additional unwanted elements if done correctly. It will also extract the THC and CBDs. Isn't that a good thing? You can get all three medicines with one solvent, alcohol. I highly recommend 200 proof organic ethanol (KleenXtract). Yes, it is only safe to use the product after the alcohol has been fully evaporated or purged. I like to keep my final product in a diluted state. After I purge off the 200 proof alcohol, I will add a touch of 192 proof polish vodka so dosing with a dropper can be utilized. I am getting three of the most important medicines my grow room can provide, terpenes, THC, and CBD. There are at least 66 known CBDs. The terpenes, which I have personally seen them work better than any other medicine for certain issues, such as scrapes, cuts, and tooth pain, there is great potential for so much more. I also believe they assist the THC in passing the blood brain barrier, not 100% sure of that, but just what I believe from what I have experienced. They also have a strong mental spiritual influence. I and a few others that have tried it would agree.

 

If you are looking for medicine, the best medicine you can make, I would consider the simplicity of making naturally decarbed sap. It has it all and doesn't require very many tools. It is quite safe to make using the organic alcohol. There are less fumes and you don't have to make a large quantity all at once. The efficiency cannot be beat. I like my QWISO, e-cannabis, QWET, and RSO. I have tried them all on a rolling paper too for recreational use. I must say though, the ND Sap extracted with KleenXtract coated on a paper, is the best I have tried yet. It offered the best kick, and gave serious expando too and a buzz to back it up.

I have this half smoked right now! Coated as mentioned above.

Querkle ND Sap 4 20 15 029
 
I coated this joint due to some leakage that occurred during a natural decarbing process. The CO2 pressure builds up during natural decarbing and causes the concentrate to want to leak or foam over like a shaken soda can. It can take up to 100 days for the natural decarb to occur. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I have not nailed that down yet, but there is no going back to a heat decarbed oil. Yes, I get a reduced yield, not sure why, but I really don't care. The quality, potency, and medicinal properties outweigh the yield and actually seeing the difference is priceless. I haven't tried using it to make e-cannabis oil or vaping it straight yet. However, when it comes to eating the oil, I have not come across anything yet that compares. Looks are not everything that's for sure. Some of my worse looking ND Sap was actually my best in potency and quality. You can only judge it by experiencing it, especially combating illness.
 
Here is how I make all of my different oils http://michiganmedic...y-grow-goddess/
 
Top Notch RSO. Yes, it is novel looking, but that doesn't mean anything for medicinal aspects. Some of the darker oils I have made are just as good if not better. When it comes to vaporizing it, the looks do matter in respect to the taste while vaping.
Premium RSO 2013 0330 15
 
Basic QWISO, great for vaping, medicinally speaking, it provides minor pain, mental, and stress relief.
QWISO 2013 11160002
 
QWET fully organic
SBC QWET 8 16 14 044

 

My favorite for medicinal use, ND Sap. This batch was made only using Querkle buds.

ND Sap 3 26 15 011
ND Sap vials In Jar 4 8 15 017

 

The oil that leaked from the vials which was used in the joint mentioned above.

ND Sap leak 4 20 15 023
 
Querkle is my favorite oil making strain. I have a space queen dominant pheno of it. It has provided great results for making oil whether I am using 99% iso, 190 proof grain alcohol, or 200 proof organic grain alcohol. The oil in those vials should be finished in a couple of weeks. I will update my blogs what it is finished. It does amaze me how much CO2 is released during the natural decarbing process.

 


  • Blkwlf likes this

#17 AbominableDro-Man

AbominableDro-Man

    I'm still lurking.

  • Validating
  • PipPipPip
  • 881 posts
  • LocationShambhala

Posted 20 April 2015 - 07:09 PM

I'm a fan of dabs. Fully processed, made via Ntane, fully vacuum purged dabs. I'll be the first to be perfectly honest and say I enjoy smoking for my own leisure as well as relief. 


Edited by AbominableDro-Man, 20 April 2015 - 07:10 PM.

  • GrowGoddess, mibrains and Quadcarl like this

#18 GrowGoddess

GrowGoddess

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,105 posts
  • LocationCentral Michigan

Posted 20 April 2015 - 07:16 PM

I'm a fan of dabs. Fully processed, made via Ntane, fully vacuum purged dabs. I'll be the first to be perfectly honest and say I enjoy smoking for my own leisure as well as relief. 

 

I used to feel that way too until I started eating the oil.

 

I have never been satisfied with medibles though, like cookies and such. It was when I made my first batch of RSO that I realized the difference. I only use buds in my extractions.



#19 AbominableDro-Man

AbominableDro-Man

    I'm still lurking.

  • Validating
  • PipPipPip
  • 881 posts
  • LocationShambhala

Posted 20 April 2015 - 10:28 PM

Absolutely. Only the most pristine buds for extractions. Gotta be the best, the trim I find myself often times feeding to the deer now a days. They seem to like it round these parts  :yahoo-wave:


Edited by AbominableDro-Man, 20 April 2015 - 10:28 PM.

  • GrowGoddess likes this

#20 MightyMightyMezz

MightyMightyMezz

    Revolution of Consciousness

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,617 posts
  • LocationParts Unknown

Posted 21 April 2015 - 04:02 AM

what happens with the "quality" ?

 

It gets reduced because of plant matter getting through the bags?  It  stands to reason that with increased yield comes decreased potency.  I'm not well-versed in bubble hash but the dry ice method seems to be easier by far which is the other part of the question. 


Edited by MightyMightyMezz, 21 April 2015 - 04:25 AM.

  • Quadcarl likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users