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 I think 100% of the cannabis profile is a more active dose than 99% of the cannabis profile. only my opinion. when I smell extract of cannabis I am happy to report I can tell that ALL of the terpenes remain in mine.

 

No heat > Some heat maybe?  

Sure. But when 25%, or even less, is 100% effective then what is the difference? More good bong hits off a sample? It's like worrying about splashing a little water out a super full bucket as you carry it. Unless you need the whole 5 gallons to do the job then the little bit of splashing is just getting your shoes wet. 

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It's obviously an advertisement by the guy selling the device.

 

I think he should become a paying member or he's just spamming the forum. 

Lots of pertinent info for an advertisement.  Get over it.  No wonder we have no "specialists" here.  Resto has to vet them and we all know how that goes.

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Sure. But when 25%, or even less, is 100% effective then what is the difference? More good bong hits off a sample? It's like worrying about splashing a little water out a super full bucket as you carry it. Unless you need the whole 5 gallons to do the job then the little bit of splashing is just getting your shoes wet. 

But it's not.  Where do you get the idea that 25% is 100% effective?  Maybe you could take less if you had 100% hten it = wasteful.

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Lots of pertinent info for an advertisement.  Get over it.  No wonder we have no "specialists" here.  Resto has to vet them and we all know how that goes.

Fair is fair. I find it interesting too. But fair is fair. It's obviously and advertisement. I have no favorites. 

 

I'm sure he's already a rich man off of his invention. He can anti up a little don't you think?

Edited by Restorium2
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I get it resto I do, but with so many unknowns in cannabis why mess around with any but the whole flower?  anything else would be anecdotal imo.

 

like when some people think garbage smoke is good enough to do the job. they still seek better product even though the job is done. Maybe there are miracle molecules being boiled off with heat?  how would I know.....no testing labs post here anymore sadly. I always wondered about the heat, little bits of it even and what losses occur when applied. I don't know if they would be qualified to report but I know that's a good place to start. I like alcohol extractions too btw, and they are noticeable different to me. I have to ponder the differences, I have too. both taste good, both get the job done, but both are different from each other.  might be more decarb, or less terpenes, who knows. but when one aims to target specific terpenes makes no sense to abolish others in the quest.

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I get it resto I do, but with so many unknowns in cannabis why mess around with any but the whole flower?  anything else would be anecdotal imo.

 

like when some people think garbage smoke is good enough to do the job. they still seek better product even though the job is done. Maybe there are miracle molecules being boiled off with heat?  how would I know.....no testing labs post here anymore sadly. I always wondered about the heat, little bits of it even and what losses occur when applied. I don't know if they would be qualified to report but I know that's a good place to start. I like alcohol extractions too btw, and they are noticeable different to me. I have to ponder the differences, I have too. both taste good, both get the job done, but both are different from each other.  might be more decarb, or less terpenes, who knows. but when one aims to target specific terpenes makes no sense to abolish others in the quest.

Because after many many years of being a patient I find the same results from some of my extracts as I do from a whole bud. It's just that simple. A million testings. Hundreds of people. A general consensus. Can that many tests be so wrong? I agree it's anecdotal. But very believable (to me) anecdotal evidence I can't ignore. 

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"same results"

(your) 100% effective

 

both are subjective and anecdotal. some people are just happy to cop a buzz we know, but others may seek different healing too.

using more of a product which has "25%" of its active ingredients removed to enable more of an effect is not related one bit to what I speak of. the more I think about removing 25% before any reports are given seems more ridiculous each moment. isn't it the same for you, I think you were making a funny right?

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When you bring a whole bunch of a lot of kinds of fireworks to a party, then if you drop a even percentage of those on your way to the party, you still have enough of all kinds to keep everyone happy for hours on end, what difference did it make that you dropped some on your way there? If you have the last fireworks on Earth, you will never be able to get more, then it would be terrible to drop any. But if you can get more any time you want to then it's just crying over spilled milk when you point out the few that were dropped on the way to the party. 

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Fair is fair. I find it interesting too. But fair is fair. It's obviously and advertisement. I have no favorites. 

 

I'm sure he's already a rich man off of his invention. He can anti up a little don't you think?

No, I appreciate the info. I don't plan on buying.  And if someone wants to give info here they shouldn't have to pay.  How many on this forum do you expect to pony up the $1000-5000 or more?  Don't know the actual cost imagine it's hi for the computer readouts and such.   Maybe patients can use the info when purchasing oils though.  Why would you want to run someone off and imply they are rich and should pony up?  Just because you don't see it that way maybe patients here and caregivers want to learn?

Edited by Norby
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Sure, I can explain further; If you have a vile of something that is 100% effective, 25% of what is in that vile is also 100% effective.

But if you can use a lesser amount it's wasteful to use more herb than what you need for relief if you can get it by keeping 100% of the terpenes.  I understand what you are saying.  The way you use is good enough for you. Some strive for perfection no matter how unachievable and strive for a better understanding.  If 25% is good enough for you then I don't understand why you are furthering the conversation because we are talking about going above and beyond that 25%.

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When you bring a whole bunch of a lot of kinds of fireworks to a party, then if you drop a even percentage of those on your way to the party, you still have enough of all kinds to keep everyone happy for hours on end, what difference did it make that you dropped some on your way there? If you have the last fireworks on Earth, you will never be able to get more, then it would be terrible to drop any. But if you can get more any time you want to then it's just crying over spilled milk when you point out the few that were dropped on the way to the party. 

First off how do you know there isn't something better with 100% terpenes if you've never produced or tried it?  Why not get a sack to carry all your fireworks since you paid for them?  Being wasteful for the sake of it is well, just wasteful. Besides the fireworks you dropped wouldve made the party last a lot longer, you're not getting your full bang for your buck.  And considering your patients are paying for the fireworks.... 

Just showing how silly analogies are in this, and misleading. 

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First off how do you know there isn't something better with 100% terpenes if you've never produced or tried it?  Why not get a sack to carry all your fireworks since you paid for them?  Being wasteful for the sake of it is well, just wasteful. Besides the fireworks you dropped wouldve made the party last a lot longer, you're not getting your full bang for your buck.  And considering your patients are paying for the fireworks.... 

Just showing how silly analogies are in this, and misleading. 

You are assuming way too much there. All in bold is an error in thinking on your part. 

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a boom is a boom with fireworks?  I don't think so. Maybe to the inexperienced kids watching the show. Just because the crowd doesn't know the other booms exist, or are destroyed before the show, doesn't mean its better for them. Thy received satisfaction form the incomplete show maybe, but that's not right at all. This is where the anti's get their notions of cbd vs thc use, and thc percentages needed for patients. They're told patients only need enough to make them smile, that's it.

Maybe the finale is what was destroyed and nobody will see it now. Maybe the cures are held tightly in those precious boiled off terpenes?How can a show be complete without the finale. It will always be "yeah. that was cool, but there was no finale maybe?"    finale, understood loosely to be concerning cannabis, the unknown/unseen effects, the complete active ingredient list, those miracle healings of active ingredients not even well understood by science or people yet.  More oppression is all we get. They tell us we what we need and what we don't need, when its good enough, when its too much, and how much of it we need to be happy, when to use cannabis, when not to.  its sickening imo.

 

It comes down to polarity. If targeted ingredients are captured then you've succeeded. When I extract I want ALL of the targeted ingredients, and none of the crap. I don't want to lose any precious part of my cannabis. I don't have a clue how "active" those lost terpenes are, but I bet they are important to the human organ, at least as important enough not to remove. viva the whole plant extractions!!

 

Free The Oil

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Care to elaborate?  Are we talking about heating and loosing terps or extracting from other than the buds?

You assumed all those things and were wrong on every account.

 

I try everything available with an open mind.

 

I have plenty so no one suffers from any waste.

 

No one pays for it but me. 

 

It's all good. I'm just not you. You can't assume my situation is anything close to yours. 

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You assumed all those things and were wrong on every account.

 

I try everything available with an open mind.

 

I have plenty so no one suffers from any waste.

 

No one pays for it but me. 

 

It's all good. I'm just not you. You can't assume my situation is anything close to yours. 

Fine, don't answer my questions.  And no, your patients are paying if you are being wasteful, that is you could be more efficient and charge less, but again, we aren't talking about you, we are talking about a concept of extraction, so why make it about you?.  You could charge less if you got it all back in extraction.  Basic rules of a business.  If you are only getting 5 grams out of an extraction instead of 6 or 7 or 8 it's basic math that you have to charge more.  Unless all that your patients need is THC and the terpenes don't do anything where that extra gram or 3 is useless.  And I said if that's your goal then I don't understand why you continue. As I said we are looking to get more terpenes or more extract and see the benefits for us and our patients. So your derailing here.

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a boom is a boom with fireworks?  I don't think so. Maybe to the inexperienced kids watching the show. Just because the crowd doesn't know the other booms exist, or are destroyed before the show, doesn't mean its better for them. Thy received satisfaction form the incomplete show maybe, but that's not right at all. This is where the anti's get their notions of cbd vs thc use, and thc percentages needed for patients. They're told patients only need enough to make them smile, that's it.

Maybe the finale is what was destroyed and nobody will see it now. Maybe the cures are held tightly in those precious boiled off terpenes?How can a show be complete without the finale. It will always be "yeah. that was cool, but there was no finale maybe?"    finale, understood loosely to be concerning cannabis, the unknown/unseen effects, the complete active ingredient list, those miracle healings of active ingredients not even well understood by science or people yet.  More oppression is all we get. They tell us we what we need and what we don't need, when its good enough, when its too much, and how much of it we need to be happy, when to use cannabis, when not to.  its sickening imo.

 

It comes down to polarity. If targeted ingredients are captured then you've succeeded. When I extract I want ALL of the targeted ingredients, and none of the crap. I don't want to lose any precious part of my cannabis. I don't have a clue how "active" those lost terpenes are, but I bet they are important to the human organ, at least as important enough not to remove. viva the whole plant extractions!!

 

Free The Oil

The terpenes "tailor" the effects by enhancing, muting and multiplying different effects.  It IS the entourage effect.

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exactly!
 
If I was losing my terpenoids I'd be sad,
but, if I wanted a more sedative effect result I would add heat to the product to further decarboxylate it for the droopy eye guy. Some judge product by how long they slept after using and this would be called a success compared to an extract using no heat from harvest to slick

 

To get the greatest possible benefits from medical Cannabis products, its important to be aware of the common methods being used to produce this medication, and how this will affect the terpene content of the finished product.
When Cannabis is exposed to heat the volatile terpenes quickly evaporate, causing the majority of hash oils currently produced for medication to be nearly devoid of terpenes. cannabishealthmagazinecom

 

 


 

The Werc Shop has also tested numerous cannabis extracts for their terpene content. But Raber found that the oil-extraction process, if it involves heating the plant matter, typically destroys the terpenes, which evaporate at much lower temperatures than THC.

....the extract maker may have to add the terpenes back into the oil concentrate in order to maximize the plant’s therapeutic potential.

In the future, when the herb is legal nationwide, it should be possible to access strain-specific cannabis oils, as well as made-to-order marijuana extracts with a full array of terpenes artfully tailored to meet the needs and desires of individual users. high times magazine

Edited by grassmatch
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What Does Drying Buds Do to Terpenes?

 

http://www.hightimes.com/read/what-does-drying-buds-do-terpenes

 

Over at the University of Mississippi, the only place in the United States that’s legally allowed to grow pot as far as the federal government is considered, they’ve been doing research on cannabis since 1968. Most of that research aims to reinforce the federal government’s stance on marijuana, but that doesn’t mean there’s not room to take advantage of the knowledge they’ve been gathering.

 

One such study they submitted in 1995, The Volatile Oil Composition of Fresh and Air-Dried Buds of Cannabis sativa, is a perfect example. According to the authors:

 

The recognition of the smell by law enforcement officers has recently been challenged in courts by the defense in criminal cases. The purpose of this paper is to identify the major components of the essential oil of cannabis and to study the effect of drying and storage of the plant material on the stability of the characteristic components of the oil odor.

 

An interesting premise, but their findings give growers and extract artists the opportunity to look at what exactly drying and curing do to the terpene content of our favorite plant.

 

So here’s what they did: They harvested 60 grams of buds from the same plant and grouped them into four categories of 15 grams each: one was kept fresh (A), the second was dried at room temperature for a week (B), the third was dried at room temperature for a week then stored in a brown paper bag for one month ©, and the fourth was dried for a week then stored in a brown paper bag for three months (D). The four allotments were steam-distilled, and the resulting oil was analyzed chemically and a yield was calculated for each. Steam-distillation extracts just the oils (terpenes) that give cannabis its smell, and nothing else.

 

The major components were myrcene (hoppy smell) and limonene (citrus smell), with linalool (lavender, citrus smell) and caryophyllene (strong peppery smell) being relatively significant players as well. Fresh buds obviously had the largest terpene content, but only during the first week did most of the terpenes evaporate; after that the terpene loss plateaued.

 

Their findings show that drying changes the relative concentration of terpenes in the oil. Smaller, lighter terpenes (monoterpenes) like myrcene and limonene evaporated faster. Bigger, heavier terpenes (sesquiterpenes) like caryophyllene don’t evaporate as quickly, and represent a larger percentage of the oil after drying.

 

 

 

 

 

In summary, if you want the full terpene content in your oil, extract it from fresh frozen buds, but keep in mind that moisture in the buds prevents the butane from dissolving everything it needs to dissolve.

 

If you’re going to dry the pot, you might as well dry and cure it all the way because most of the terpenes are lost during the first week, and the loss stabilizes after that. The terpene loss isn’t homogeneous; drying will likely lead to a more peppery-smelling oil, since caryophyllene will make up a larger percentage of the oil. There will be considerably less myrcene after drying, but limonene stays relatively constant.

 

Both myrcene and caryophyllene hit cannabinoid receptors, so different proportions of them will also change the psychoactive effect of your oil. How exactly do they affect the high? We don’t know yet for sure, but we hope to do some experiments in the near future.

 

What were the findings for the researchers at the University of Mississippi?

 

To evaluate the odor of the different oils, technicians experienced with marijuana smell were asked to identify the smell of the individual oils. The subjects were able to recognize the smell of all oils as that of marijuana.

 

They all smelled like weed. What a fascinating conclusion.

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I like fresh frozen, but I'm not currently equipped to prevent thawing which results in water ending up in the slab and causes it to wax up on me during the purge. For terp retention and pull 'n snap taffy/shatter consistency I dry in racks (3-5 days), put in freezer overnight or until I can get to it, and run every aspect of the extraction as cold as possible (reclaim temp set to 55-65 F). With this method oil that seems to be a very close representation in smell to the flowers and live plant can be consistently prepared. Then it's just a matter of not losing them during the purge..

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What Does Drying Buds Do to Terpenes?

 

http://www.hightimes.com/read/what-does-drying-buds-do-terpenes

 

Over at the University of Mississippi, the only place in the United States that’s legally allowed to grow pot as far as the federal government is considered, they’ve been doing research on cannabis since 1968. Most of that research aims to reinforce the federal government’s stance on marijuana, but that doesn’t mean there’s not room to take advantage of the knowledge they’ve been gathering.

 

One such study they submitted in 1995, The Volatile Oil Composition of Fresh and Air-Dried Buds of Cannabis sativa, is a perfect example. According to the authors:

 

The recognition of the smell by law enforcement officers has recently been challenged in courts by the defense in criminal cases. The purpose of this paper is to identify the major components of the essential oil of cannabis and to study the effect of drying and storage of the plant material on the stability of the characteristic components of the oil odor.

 

An interesting premise, but their findings give growers and extract artists the opportunity to look at what exactly drying and curing do to the terpene content of our favorite plant.

 

So here’s what they did: They harvested 60 grams of buds from the same plant and grouped them into four categories of 15 grams each: one was kept fresh (A), the second was dried at room temperature for a week (B), the third was dried at room temperature for a week then stored in a brown paper bag for one month ©, and the fourth was dried for a week then stored in a brown paper bag for three months (D). The four allotments were steam-distilled, and the resulting oil was analyzed chemically and a yield was calculated for each. Steam-distillation extracts just the oils (terpenes) that give cannabis its smell, and nothing else.

 

The major components were myrcene (hoppy smell) and limonene (citrus smell), with linalool (lavender, citrus smell) and caryophyllene (strong peppery smell) being relatively significant players as well. Fresh buds obviously had the largest terpene content, but only during the first week did most of the terpenes evaporate; after that the terpene loss plateaued.

 

Their findings show that drying changes the relative concentration of terpenes in the oil. Smaller, lighter terpenes (monoterpenes) like myrcene and limonene evaporated faster. Bigger, heavier terpenes (sesquiterpenes) like caryophyllene don’t evaporate as quickly, and represent a larger percentage of the oil after drying.

 

 

 

 

 

In summary, if you want the full terpene content in your oil, extract it from fresh frozen buds, but keep in mind that moisture in the buds prevents the butane from dissolving everything it needs to dissolve.

 

If you’re going to dry the pot, you might as well dry and cure it all the way because most of the terpenes are lost during the first week, and the loss stabilizes after that. The terpene loss isn’t homogeneous; drying will likely lead to a more peppery-smelling oil, since caryophyllene will make up a larger percentage of the oil. There will be considerably less myrcene after drying, but limonene stays relatively constant.

 

Both myrcene and caryophyllene hit cannabinoid receptors, so different proportions of them will also change the psychoactive effect of your oil. How exactly do they affect the high? We don’t know yet for sure, but we hope to do some experiments in the near future.

 

What were the findings for the researchers at the University of Mississippi?

 

To evaluate the odor of the different oils, technicians experienced with marijuana smell were asked to identify the smell of the individual oils. The subjects were able to recognize the smell of all oils as that of marijuana.

 

They all smelled like weed. What a fascinating conclusion.

Have you ever seen what they grow there?

 

I'm surprised it has even trace amounts of terpenes. Looks like garf to me. I bet what I grow has quantities of terpenes that far outnumber what theirs has. Like what I said, what you bring to the party starts with what you grew. All samples are not equal to begin with. If I grew cannabis that weak I would be very careful with it because it doesn't bring much to the party. 

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