Growing Outdoors In Michigan

[Buzz]

Ok, everyone...I am about to attempt to grow my meds outside. I am scared out of my mind right now! So many things seem to be lop sided with the enforcement. I have a plan in place to secure my area...chain link fence, electrified, with security cameras. I live in the sticks...a few neighbors nearby but the closest is over 400 yards away....we're off the road, set back from the main road. There are possibly two areas where someone MAY be able to see...highly doubt it, but we will put up a privacy fence in these areas. Last summer, my old caregiver was bombarded with cops! Copters, vans, the whole nine yards! He was freaked, but they said 'nice grow' and 'you are now registered'. Is this proper procedure? Now every single neighbor of his knows and I think its uncalled for! Will they do this to me also? We are close to 70 years old and cannot deal with this, but I cannot deal with prescription meds...I've almost died twice!!!!! My 'new' meds are awesome! No pain, I can sleep and just generally all over healthy now after so many years on prescriptions. I would really like to grow outside, the cost of growing inside is crazy!

We've done it and paid the staggering electric bills...but I would like to grow enough that I can just take a break once in a while. One grow a year (12 plants) will afford me to have meds for a year, without having to continually grow inside. 

Do any other members have any suggestions for me/us? My husband is my caregiver. We don't want ANY problems (I know, they often come in this territory) but not sure how to avoid them. ANY and ALL advice is greatly appreciated! My clones are almost ready to go outside and I'm anxious to get going....just scared out of my ever-lovin' mind! I don't know what may come at me.....

Thanks everyone! Just looking to calm down a bit I guess. I know the state is supposed to 'protect' me, but not sure if they will...and for someone our age, that's a sad statement. 

[AbominableDro-Man]

Growing outside it needs to be in an enclosed, lockable greenhouse with a roof I'm pretty sure.

[trichcycler]

If nobody knows about your garden, then nobody knows about your garden.

that's the down side to outdoor growing with neighbors nearby, they will know about your garden.

Love thy neighbor, or grow indoors. 12 plants indoors can be incredibly cheap to grow, especially hand watered dirt dry ferts.

 

dog kennel, chain link fence top, locking gate entry, shade cloth wrapped works very well, until it stinks for a mile around you.

 

be safe good luck

Edited April 30, 2015 by grassmatch

[Buzz]

Growing outside it needs to be in an enclosed, lockable greenhouse with a roof I'm pretty sure.

I believe this is the rule for growing outside? If so, we can do it....also will have a chain link topper...Will also integrate electric fencing to the area that will be fenced in...

 

Yes, no more than 12 marijuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility. OR, outdoor plants must not be "visible to the unaided eye from an adjacent property when viewed by an individual at ground level or from a permanent structure" and must be "grown within a stationary structure that is enclosed on all sides, except the base, by chain-link fencing, wooden slats, or a similar material that prevents access by the general public and that is anchored, attached or affixed to the ground, located on land that is owned, leased, or rented" by the registered grower and restricted to that grower's access.

[phaquetoo]

The only problem I see is your amount of finished meds when you are done, the law dont allow for no more than 2.5 oz's per pt,

 

Ok Im a pt I grow for one pt, so I can have 2.5 oz's for me and I can have 2.5 oz's for my pt, my pt can have 2.5 oz's thats a total of 7.5 oz's that you can legaly have possesion of, you may get that from one plant!

 

I would most def grow out doors if the law protected me from being over my allowed limits!

 

as far as your link fence with link fence roof goes, add a lock to the door along with all of your other security features you have in place and I dont see a problem, you may get a visit from po po but if they see you are legaly in compliance there is no reason your neighbors need to know any thing, you can say they came by for a well fair check!

 

Best of luck!

 

Peace

[Buzz]

If nobody knows about your garden, then nobody knows about your garden.

that's the down side to outdoor growing with neighbors nearby, they will know about your garden.

Love thy neighbor, or grow indoors. 12 plants indoors can be incredibly cheap to grow, especially hand watered dirt dry ferts.

 

dog kennel, chain link fence top, locking gate entry, shade cloth wrapped works very well, until it stinks for a mile around you.

 

be safe good luck

So, you are saying to keep my grow inside? I haven't found it to be very cheap....that's why I want to move everything outside. I've been checking everything I can think of...sight, distance, sun, and the breeze, 90% of the time blows away from the neighbors up front to the fields that we farm, behind us. I won't plant in the fields, since we lease them to a local farmer and it would not be secure. The area we have chosen is behind a barn, facing south, among a few large pine trees. Sun most of the day. Where and why would I use a shade cloth? For relief from the sun or a buffer from the winds? Sorry! I appreciate your advice, but just am wondering why the shade cloth. I'm really new to all of this, so I'm really trying to sort it all out. Thought I had worked through everything but the smell but I may have more research to do! Thanks so much for your help! 

[Buzz]

The only problem I see is your amount of finished meds when you are done, the law dont allow for no more than 2.5 oz's per pt,

 

Ok Im a pt I grow for one pt, so I can have 2.5 oz's for me and I can have 2.5 oz's for my pt, my pt can have 2.5 oz's thats a total of 7.5 oz's that you can legaly have possesion of, you may get that from one plant!

 

I would most def grow out doors if the law protected me from being over my allowed limits!

 

as far as your link fence with link fence roof goes, add a lock to the door along with all of your other security features you have in place and I dont see a problem, you may get a visit from po po but if they see you are legaly in compliance there is no reason your neighbors need to know any thing, you can say they came by for a well fair check!

 

Best of luck!

 

Peace

Exactly! This is part of the law that confuses me! My old caregiver told me (no, I won't go by their word, I'll look it up myself) that if it's hanging (harvested and curing) it's considered 'curing' and doesn't count against us. This is a muddy area and I need to confirm what to do with what I grow. We really need clearer laws regarding what is considered 'usable'. I don't understand how they can say you can grow 12 plants outside and keep the harvest but one 2 inch clone puts you over your limit...or any seed, stalk or whatever. I'm in this far, I may as well contact LARA directly to see what they say about it. I would really like to be able to be proactive with it...like go to the po po's and say 'I'm gong to be growing outside. Could we make an appointment for you to come out and check things out to make sure I'm compliant and ask for security suggestions'. Pretty sure they would think I was totally off my rocker, but it makes more sense to me than coming in like gangbusters and causing a big ruckus in the neighborhood when I'm not trying to get away with anything, just growing my meds! I got nothing to hide....legal all the way around! Cheers!

[phaquetoo]

Exactly! This is part of the law that confuses me! My old caregiver told me (no, I won't go by their word, I'll look it up myself) that if it's hanging (harvested and curing) it's considered 'curing' and doesn't count against us. This is a muddy area and I need to confirm what to do with what I grow. We really need clearer laws regarding what is considered 'usable'. I don't understand how they can say you can grow 12 plants outside and keep the harvest but one 2 inch clone puts you over your limit...or any seed, stalk or whatever. I'm in this far, I may as well contact LARA directly to see what they say about it. I would really like to be able to be proactive with it...like go to the po po's and say 'I'm gong to be growing outside. Could we make an appointment for you to come out and check things out to make sure I'm compliant and ask for security suggestions'. Pretty sure they would think I was totally off my rocker, but it makes more sense to me than coming in like gangbusters and causing a big ruckus in the neighborhood when I'm not trying to get away with anything, just growing my meds! I got nothing to hide....legal all the way around! Cheers!

What area are you in, just county is fiine.

 

I personaly would not go by what I have hanging, curing, drying,,,,,,po po will most likely count all of it towards your weight, I hate to kinda burst you bubble, to be safe I would grow in doors and make sure im not over my limit, it realy would be sad if you lost every thing in the prime of your life!

 

Peace

[Buzz]

What area are you in, just county is fiine.

 

I personaly would not go by what I have hanging, curing, drying,,,,,,po po will most likely count all of it towards your weight, I hate to kinda burst you bubble, to be safe I would grow in doors and make sure im not over my limit, it realy would be sad if you lost every thing in the prime of your life!

 

Peace

Barry Co. Yeah, I don't want to lose a thing at this point! 

[phaquetoo]

put one out side and the rest inside and that will give you and idea for next yr how many you can put out doors, I truly dont think you would have a prob with how you described your out door grow, like I said just the weight would be the problem!

 

I think we would all grow out doors if we could just grow enough for ourselves for the yr, I would need way more than 7.5 for the yr though!

 

Peace

[Highlander]

Please don't take this as legal advice, and make your own decisions based on your own comfort level and circumstances.

 

When I got my first certification back in 2009 I went through the TCHF clinic. They are an out-of-state cert business and set up shop in michigan early on but no longer give certs in Michigan. Their advice with regard to growing outdoors and avoiding overages was to harvest plants by pulling them - roots and all - and hanging the plants to dry. The idea was that a plant is a plant... Whether dead or alive. So you can have 12 dead plants drying and just snip buds off as you need them and as long as you have no more than 12 plants hanging and no more than 2.5 oz trimmed-off, you should be good to go.

 

I haven't seen this idea tested in the courts, but It makes sense under the law based on the laypersons's interpretation.

[Buzz]

Please don't take this as legal advice, and make your own decisions based on your own comfort level and circumstances.

 

When I got my first certification back in 2009 I went through the TCHF clinic. They are an out-of-state cert business and set up shop in michigan early on but no longer give certs in Michigan. Their advice with regard to growing outdoors and avoiding overages was to harvest plants by pulling them - roots and all - and hanging the plants to dry. The idea was that a plant is a plant... Whether dead or alive. So you can have 12 dead plants drying and just snip buds off as you need them and as long as you have no more than 12 plants hanging and no more than 2.5 oz trimmed-off, you should be good to go.

 

I haven't seen this idea tested in the courts, but It makes sense under the law based on the laypersons's interpretation.

Ii believe this is what my old caregiver was going by as well. As long as they were hanging, they were just one plant, with the roots intact. He was 'checked out' last year and all was fine. You are my second confirmation on this, but I understand what you are saying about legal advice! Right now, I plan on planting 12...I may back off to just 6 if my nerves don't calm down! If I can legally grow 12, I would like to do just that. SS not much $ for electric bills! lol! Thanks for your input! In no way do I consider it legal advice...but has been great info! Thanks Highlander!!!

[JB420]

I wouldn't call the cops and ask them for legal advice either. From my dealings with them, they are very uneducated on the law. You may get an all clear from Barney, but Andy can still decide you didn't dot all your i's and cross you t's.

Point blank NOONE can give you an honest answer right now as to what is legal 100%We all go by what we believe to be right, and hope everyone else sees it the same way. The courts are still hashing it out all the time and half of the time they conflict each other. That being said as long as you are fully enclosed and locked up out of sight, I would carry on with little fear. As you clearly stated your intent is to comply, you are doing your research etc. The useable part is an issue, and you heard some good ideas there. I will add another, if in that much fear, a 6 inch auger a farm and some mason jars makes for ALOT of hiding places. Get a younger trustworthy person to bury them for you in 2.5 ounce batches, pretty shallow and they can be retrieved as needed.

I personally feel your intent and section 8 would protect you, but at 70 no one wants to be a test case. I know several people that grew outdoors last year, without any issues. Do your best to be legal and as long as you aren't in Oakland county you should be fine.

[Buzz]

I wouldn't call the cops and ask them for legal advice either. From my dealings with them, they are very uneducated on the law. You may get an all clear from Barney, but Andy can still decide you didn't dot all your i's and cross you t's.

Point blank NOONE can give you an honest answer right now as to what is legal 100%We all go by what we believe to be right, and hope everyone else sees it the same way. The courts are still hashing it out all the time and half of the time they conflict each other. That being said as long as you are fully enclosed and locked up out of sight, I would carry on with little fear. As you clearly stated your intent is to comply, you are doing your research etc. The useable part is an issue, and you heard some good ideas there. I will add another, if in that much fear, a 6 inch auger a farm and some mason jars makes for ALOT of hiding places. Get a younger trustworthy person to bury them for you in 2.5 ounce batches, pretty shallow and they can be retrieved as needed.

I personally feel your intent and section 8 would protect you, but at 70 no one wants to be a test case. I know several people that grew outdoors last year, without any issues. Do your best to be legal and as long as you aren't in Oakland county you should be fine.

Thank you SO MUCH! No, I really don't want to be the first test case in that! Great advice from everyone. This helps with my nerves on being over limit...hubs will keep it locked up and dole it out as needed. I'm very glad to not live in Oakland county...they're really taking it tough! I'm going forward, nerves and all! 

[Wild Bill]

Their advice with regard to growing outdoors and avoiding overages was to harvest plants by pulling them - roots and all - and hanging the plants to dry. The idea was that a plant is a plant... Whether dead or alive. So you can have 12 dead plants drying and just snip buds off as you need them and as long as you have no more than 12 plants hanging and no more than 2.5 oz trimmed-off, you should be good to go.

 

Here's the Oakland County prosecutors take on it,

"Contrary to Defendant's assertions on appeal, there was no evidence that the marihuana in the garage was "wet" - the undisputed testimony was that it was freshly cut and green."

 

Do you think they'd buy "dry but hanging"?

[AmishRnot4ganja]

Good luck, and may the force be with you. The police force that is, and the Universal Force of Good Will.

[Buzz]

Here's the Oakland County prosecutors take on it,

"Contrary to Defendant's assertions on appeal, there was no evidence that the marihuana in the garage was "wet" - the undisputed testimony was that it was freshly cut and green."

 

Do you think they'd buy "dry but hanging"?

I guess my question would be the difference between 'freshly cut and green' to 'roots still intact and out of the ground'.....not being cut down to harvest but pulled with roots intact....grey, grey area.

[Highlander]

Here's the Oakland County prosecutors take on it,

"Contrary to Defendant's assertions on appeal, there was no evidence that the marihuana in the garage was "wet" - the undisputed testimony was that it was freshly cut and green."

 

Do you think they'd buy "dry but hanging"?

I can't/won't even try to figure out what the power-people in Oakland county might think. If I lived in Oakland county I'd have done my best to get the F outta there.

[trichcycler]

So, you are saying to keep my grow inside? I haven't found it to be very cheap....that's why I want to move everything outside. I've been checking everything I can think of...sight, distance, sun, and the breeze, 90% of the time blows away from the neighbors up front to the fields that we farm, behind us. I won't plant in the fields, since we lease them to a local farmer and it would not be secure. The area we have chosen is behind a barn, facing south, among a few large pine trees. Sun most of the day. Where and why would I use a shade cloth? For relief from the sun or a buffer from the winds? Sorry! I appreciate your advice, but just am wondering why the shade cloth. I'm really new to all of this, so I'm really trying to sort it all out. Thought I had worked through everything but the smell but I may have more research to do! Thanks so much for your help! 

just saying I really really wanted to grow outdoors, spent big bucks in able to do so, and then moved inside the next season except for 4 plants outdoors, and the smell was still ever present.

I suggested the shade cloth, available in most any % blockage, to safely obscure the view through the chain link, sides and top.

 

If interested we can pick apart your indoor growing expenses and look for some shave off the nut?

A relatively low cost per oz can be had easily if patients don't need to be maintained. Also you could plant early and force flower as you need for a semi perpetual harvest season. I did that here both years successfully with an upturned garbage can for two days.

No matter which way I approached my house, which is 300 feet off the road and surrounded by dense 100 foot pines, I could smell even MY small outdoor garden.

The larger one was enclosed in a real greenhouse with double plastic and an inflated roof, the small one was buckled up off the back of a chicken coop wrapped in corrugated opaque plastic with a chain link top. both were blatantly obvious as I drove down my road near my house, and the closer I got to the driveway the stronger it was. That's an invitation for trouble to me.

[trichcycler]

I guess my question would be the difference between 'freshly cut and green' to 'roots still intact and out of the ground'.....not being cut down to harvest but pulled with roots intact....grey, grey area.

prosecutor could charge you with  the weight of your roots if they're attached maybe

[Highlander]

prosecutor could charge you with  the weight of your roots if they're attached maybe

Section 4a

 

......Any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots shall also be allowed under state law and shall not be included in this amount.....

[beourbud]

Section 4a

......Any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots shall also be allowed under state law and shall not be included in this amount.....

I know right..

 

Pretty obvious outdoor opps are a threat to their business model.

 

They won't be happy till a personal grow is no longer feasible or reduced to 1 6 inch plant and a gram of usable, and they have Leo eliminating their competition for them.

 

So what is their end game? Monopolizing the market or stopping the arrests and prosicution of a patient merely trying to grow their own Meds.

 

Stop the Reefer Madness...Decriminalize

Edited April 30, 2015 by beourbud

[trichcycler]

Section 4a

 

......Any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots shall also be allowed under state law and shall not be included in this amount.....

Bob says he knows of cops counting sticks as plants, I've read here of balls of roots in a fire pit brought cops to a raid.

 

I would never hang my plants in the with roots attached, allowing life to continue and death comes slowly.Yuck!

Since the cops wont be stopping by because of unknown plants hidden hanging upside down anyways, they will express their bone for other reasons, like the ones that brought them there in the first place?

[beourbud]

Gee,  I thought we All wanted "life to continue and death comes slowly"

 

Roots in hydro, roots in coir, roots in soil, roots in aeroponics,  whats the difference?  its stil a living plant and as such counts as a plant

 

We call em HillBilly Hydro's  Old School dont cha know

Edited May 1, 2015 by beourbud

[beourbud]

I liken the prohibition movement  on outdoor grows to lawmakers forcing you to raise your children in a artificially lit 8 x 8 room.

 

Sure it is possible but the quality, maturity, stability and overall health will suffer

 

If we want to fully realize cannabis's potential we need to move in the direction that is the most natural to the plant...the Sun

 

Keep your synthetic crap We want the Real Thing

 

Hemp is also a great CO2 scrubber 

 

Cannabis for a Cleaner tomorrow.