New & Tons To Learn

[trichcycler]

One big  joy of cultivating cannabis is sharing what we've learned.

 

I sometimes don't vegetate at all. Meaning sometimes I poke a rooted clone into the flowering room the day I see roots. I've done this with select seeds too. Its hit or miss without an experienced strain but I've found no loss of quality in the finished plant, only yield losses. I don't practice this as the norm but occasionally am forced to move plants into the flowering room to make room for more in the veg room. this works great for me when a strain isn't being (60 days ahead) requested, while the perpetual harvesting/planting schedule must move forward.   

 

vegging for longer periods of time affords us  larger plants, larger root systems and ultimately heavier yields. My group is "strain variety" geared so individual plant yields are not too important to me. Using my octopots this year my yields are essentially doubled with normal transplanting routines. This gives me the opportunity to use the rapid growth and larger yielding system with less vegging time.

 

example; I have a strain called 9 pound Hammer, aptly named. With only a 45 days in the veg room(including rooting time) the plant consistently grows taller than six feet topped or not and yields are off the hook. I don't need 6+ ounces from one single plant. To offset this I'm able to poke the newly rooted clone right into the flower room and still end with a 5 foot/4 ounce plant, with zero vegging time. This equates to substantial light cost savings and those are passed onto my patients.

 

I used to be ocd about trimming too. I chuckle when I think of why the product I provide must be of higher quality, tighter trimmed, no shake, no tree trunks, fresh, more potent and cheaper than any I ever purchased in my life. But, that's the score right.   I don't fuss much with manicuring. I trim straight down the buds, remove any visible sticks, and move on to the next. 8 ounces of bud, which will result in 2 ounces of dried bud, takes me about 15 minutes to trim now. I don't save anything that falls, but my bunnies relish the fresh munching.

[Restorium2]

On the other hand:

 

You might find that you enjoy an elite strain that has not been crossed with a heavy producer ^.  9 pound hammer would be of no use in my garden .... no matter how easy to grow and huge it gets. Some strains will only produce small amounts per plant and they can take about three months to grow. 

Edited July 19, 2015 by Restorium2

[imiubu]

A loupe w/ 30x-60x is what I have and it works very well for the purpose of checking trichome ripeness

and for critters.

10x 20x wasn't enough magnification for me.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30x-60x-Glass-Magnifying-Magnifier-Jeweler-Eye-Jewelry-Loupe-Loop-LED-Light-/281449628602?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4187b483ba

 

Ghee, Clarified butter and European-style Butter have less water and milk solids and might be an option.

 

Ghee, a relative of clarified butter that originated millennia ago in India. It is taken a step further than

traditional clarified butterby simmering until all of the moisture evaporates and the milk solids begin to

brown, giving the butter a nutty, caramel-like flavor and aroma. This extra step also gives ghee a longer

life and much higher smoke point than regular clarified butter, almost 485°F/252°C*. This makes ghee

the best butter for sautéing and frying. Today, the best commercial ghee comes from Holland, followed

by Scandinavia and Australia. While ghee was originally made only with unsalted butter made from water

buffalo milk, today it can be made with any unsalted butter; the healthiest ghee, with conjugated linoleic

acid and vitamin K2, is made from grass-fed cow’s milk.

 

Clarified butter is unsalted butter that has been slowly melted, evaporating much of the water and

separating the milk solids. All that remains is pure liquid golden-yellow butterfat. Because the milk solids

have been removed, clarified butter has both a long shelf life (it will keep from going rancid longer) and a

high smoke point (it can be used in frying without burning); it also is less flavorful than regular butter.

To clarify butter, melt unsalted butter in a saucepan over low heat. Skim the froth from the top and carefully

pour off the clear liquid, leaving the milky residue behind. Clarified butter is used in sautés, sauces and in

baked dishes.

 

European-style butter is made with more milk fat than regular American butter. Butter with more than 82%

milk fat is considered European-style. It is churned longer than traditional butter, decreasing the moisture

content and increasing the fat content. The result is a richer, creamier butter for cooking and a smoother

texture for spreading. Some European-style butters, such as that from Straus, is as high as 85% to 86%.

Plugrá is an American brand made in the European style; European imports such as Kerrygold are also

available. Since European-style butter has a lower moisture content, using it results in better pastries,

icings and sauces.

 

http://www.thenibble.com/REVIEWS/MAIN/cheese/butter/glossary.asp

Edited July 19, 2015 by imiubu

[trichcycler]

ghee wiz, appreciate the butter clarifications

[Blkwlf]

Wild Bill: I do miss the occasional drink but my med's don't mix with alcohol so it's been a while since I've had even a Kaluha & Cream.

 

Restorium2: I can't pretend to know what you mean when referring to an "elite" strain except possibly one which hasn't been mixed with other's to produce very high levels of thc. If that's correct, I do plan on looking for more strains with higher cbd and lower thc levels for myself or any patients with similar chronic pain issues looking for the same.

 

grassmatch: I'll probably be growing a variety of strains with my husband in order to accommodate his patients, myself and patients I may eventually have myself. I've never heard of sending a freshly rooted clone into flower. This is very interesting and I plant to research it more. It would seem only certain strains are suited for this. We're trying to develop a schedule allowing a harvest every 2 wk's but already finding holes due to clones/teens I've "triaged" ( my term for killing ). Plants such as the 9 pound hammer done as you stated could help fill some of those holes. It can't hurt to try.

 

imiubu: the 3 ring 5x loupe we purchased is okay when combining the 3 to make a 15x and is expandable in 5x increments so we may look into adding more to our ring. Also, I had no idea there where so many different types of butters nor so many ways to use it. It never occurred to me to smoke it. Can the ones you mentioned be used in a vaporizer? You've definitely given me a whole new topic to research. I was afraid to "caramelize" ( light browning) the butter. I thought separating the fats, oils, etc. would be bad. It's definitely not a good outcome for many general baking purposes.

 

Though NO WHERE near attempting to try it since I still need to experiment with oil extraction methods and, now, with butters, I've read about "shatter" on web sites and seen it for sale on Craig's List. Am I correct to assume this would take sophisticated equipment to produce? Also, does this product require quick, high temp. to produce a vapor similar to "dabbing" and can it too be used in vaporizers as with oils, hash and whole bud? I ask because, with my 1st harvest curing, I plan to purchase a vaporizer so I can begin trying some of the product to see if it has any effect on my pain or other issues my pain med's cause.

 

grassmatch: You are correct that I was too OCD trimming my 1st harvest. I was trimming 90% of the tiny bud leaves & even the tiny branches from those leaves inside the buds. I left no external stem and this did cause some of my buds to separate into smaller buds. My husband helped me trim and told me I was being too picky. The ones he trimmed look much better. I thought patients would appreciate more flower with less leaves and stem. After seeing what's for sale and chatting with you all, I realize my mistake. You've all been very generous with the knowledge you've gained as well as patient and understanding of my naitivity.

[trichcycler]

keep it fun!

 

 

(I in no way suggest 9 pound hammer as a keeper strain to be coveted. Its only the latest trial in my room, so far, exquisite)

[t-pain]

"I'll probably be growing a variety of strains with my husband"

 

The s sooner you knock off the "with" and together stuff, the better. Prosecutors love using testimony like that against husbands and wives. Bob was in court for 5 years because growing plants together, there's a case that just went through the Michigan supreme court because the wife said "we were complying with the law"

 

Literally a whole case based upon the word "we" and a sticky note

 

Keep it separate, and never talk to police without a lawyer.

 

Just a friendly reminder. Good luck

[trichcycler]

I'm not legally allowed to let anyone else help me in the garden, even trimming. I admit this would be nice occasionally but its just not worth the risk. If a cop came over while me and the wife were mopping the room I'd lose it all, and she could be charged too, even if she had a card!  Maybe laws will change soon, but for now I cross all my t's.

 

Rotational Evaporators, Tamisium Extraction Units, Supercritical C02 Systems are available to consumers without registration in some states. You are correct assuming that "sophisticated equipment"  and knowledge are necessary to insure a safe clean environmentally friendly extraction. There are short cuts, and also blown up homes and apartment buildings. "Amber Glass" means different things to different people. Soaking herbs in a solvent and removing the solvent like 99% isopropyl alcohol will leave behind a very pleasant "concrete" extraction, complete with plant waxes, lipids, chlorophyll and other miscellaneous plant materials, and of course the active ingredients you seek. (they may ALL b active?)

Further washing this concrete extraction to purity will result in an "absolute" extraction. This may involve boiling sulphuric, muriatic, hydrochloride acids, cooking with benzene and chloroform, and using anhydrous sodium acetate.. None of which should be considered without chem experience, legal licensing, and proper equipment.

There is a dvd for sale in high times/online that is devoted to explaining concentrate extractions, but the info is widely available online too.

I suggest not playing with magic you do not understand(Indian in the Cupboard) 

 

enjoy, stay safe and legal

Edited July 20, 2015 by grassmatch

[Wild Bill]

You are correct assuming that "sophisticated equipment"  and knowledge are necessary to insure a safe clean environmentally friendly extraction.

 

That's absurd. Anyone with common sense and a basic understanding of high school chemistry can create safe environmentally clean extractions.

 

When cannabis was commonly used as a medicine before 1937 they didn't have any of the "sophisticated equipment" you mentioned and made perfectly fine medicine every day.

[trichcycler]

"they"?
 
meaning the pharma labs that marketed the products?

 

sorry you didn't notice the next line where I said "There are shortcuts" before labeling my opinion absurd.

 

 
""....shatter" on web sites and seen it for sale on Craig's List. Am I correct to assume this would take sophisticated equipment to produce?"
 
please share with this patient  an example of a safe and  environmentally safe extraction  using petroleum solvents resulting in the "shatter" mentioned.

Edited July 20, 2015 by grassmatch

[trichcycler]

When cannabis was commonly used as a medicine before 1937 they didn't have any of the "sophisticated equipment" you mentioned and made perfectly fine medicine every day.

 

This is false. Although Supercritical C02 systems and Rotovap's were not in use until 30 or so yrs ago, distillation has been around for thousands of years.

About 1810 B.C. in Mesopotamia, the perfumery of King Zimrilim employed this method to make hundreds of litres of balms, essences and incense from cedar, cypress, ginger and myrrh every month. This is exactly what the Tamisium is, and shares all of the principals of distillation. It is the most affordable of the three systems mentioned and the only systems any lab would suggest for medicinal/botanical/solvent extractions today, ones that are safe for use and for the environment. I would not suggest cutting costs, or using Naptha, like the "perfectly fine medicine" did of yesteryear, without one of those pieces of lab equipment mentioned. That Naptha cannabis medicine circa 1930's was made using distillation process and lab equipment that some see as sophisticated, very similar to the Tamisium. This is how they were able to remove the solvent safely, without evaporating it into the air, and also how they could guarantee what went in, comes out before use. -high school chem class.

[GregS]

This is false. Although Supercritical C02 systems and Rotovap's were not in use until 30 or so yrs ago, distillation has been around for thousands of years.

About 1810 B.C. in Mesopotamia, the perfumery of King Zimrilim employed this method to make hundreds of litres of balms, essences and incense from cedar, cypress, ginger and myrrh every month. This is exactly what the Tamisium is, and shares all of the principals of distillation. It is the most affordable of the three systems mentioned and the only systems any lab would suggest for medicinal/botanical/solvent extractions today, ones that are safe for use and for the environment. I would not suggest cutting costs, or using Naptha, like the "perfectly fine medicine" did of yesteryear, without one of those pieces of lab equipment mentioned. That Naptha cannabis medicine circa 1930's was made using distillation process and lab equipment that some see as sophisticated, very similar to the Tamisium. This is how they were able to remove the solvent safely, without evaporating it into the air, and also how they could guarantee what went in, comes out before use. -high school chem class.

Damm. I sure wish I'd gone to your high school.

Edited July 20, 2015 by GregS

[GregS]

Put it this way. It is reasonable to expect a harvest of approximately 3/4 pound per month using 4x4 grow tents and 1kw lighting. If anyone can improve on that, I'd sure like to know.

[trichcycler]

that's a fine return for 12 plants and a light, perpetually. 

how many tents, how many plants, and how many 1k lights.... of course are important factors....

[GregS]

that's a fine return for 12 plants and a light, perpetually. 

how many tents, how many plants, and how many 1k lights.... of course are important factors....

It was three tents, three 1kw lights, and 36 plants. I also kept mothers and cloned them, along with taking clones from the top of my plants when they reached, if memory serves, four nodes, and it was perpetual. I was told after I could no longer grow that Gorilla Glue number 2 can grow and bloom one at a time in that environment and yield well. Otherwise people have told me it is reasonable to expect the same quantity at harvest using four or five plants per tent. Because I can no longer work with it, I have to wonder.

[imiubu]

ghee wiz, appreciate the butter clarifications

You clever devil

 

that's a fine return for 12 plants and a light, perpetually. 

how many tents, how many plants, and how many 1k lights.... of course are important factors....

 

I've been trying since Sept. with zero harvest     I am still hopeful

 

 

@Blkwlf

 

Butter is for cooking not smoking

I utilize YouTube to learn some procedures as I learn better visually. 

Keep in mind there are uninformed people there too and you can

be misguided.  I try to watch several on each topic to weed ;) out

the poor advise.

Edited July 20, 2015 by imiubu

[Blkwlf]

t-pain: I greatly appreciate your concern, warning and just general looking out for me and others. I'm my own separate patient from my husband who has 5 patients of his own. I haven't picked up any for myself yet. I suppose I was wrong when I used the words we & our. Our grows are separate with him assisting (teaching ) me about nutrients, trimming, research into strains I may want for myself and generally helping me to wade through all the information available. I do take clones from plants he has in an outdoor grow ( something I plan to set up next year ) and he takes clones from my plants, otherwise, our grows are separate with different keyed locks + paperwork posted outside our rooms. We've been reading and interpreting the laws as narrowly as possible. I will heed your warning and try to watch how I word my posts in the future. As for openly discussing this topic with anyone beside he and me, that too isn't a problem due to my family's hypocritical way of thinking. Having been raised by a police officer who was later Chief of Police for a city in MI, I know not to even offer my name without the presence of an attorney but I do thank you for alerting me. I do plan on talking to an attorney re: a L.L.C. with myself and husband as partners instead of the D.B.A. I currently hold in my name for the haying off and farming lease on the land.

t-pain: I should have been clearer when I mentioned that my husband trimmed some of the plants in the 1st harvest. The plants he trimmed were his own while I trimmed mine. His came out much less "OCD" with a bit more of the tiny leaves and more uniformity while mine were nearly all bud and hairs. His looked more like what I've seen online for sale so grassmatch and he were definitely correct that I was over trimming.

grassmatch: Re. my interest in 9 pound hammer: It sounds like an interesting strain similar to some others I've been checking out w/short flowering times & higher yields. I only meant that a strain of that type may help to fill some harvest gaps created by the "triage" of undesirable clones/teens due to it's very short ( by comparrison ) flowering time. I didn't mean to cause a heated discussion regarding the safest/purest way to produce high quality "shatter". I've also seen it referred to as "glass". I'm in no position to even start thinking about producing such a product. I'm still working to properly trim/top my plants prior to flowering, best vegetation times, increase the quality and yields of my harvests as well as purchasing better/more equipment once my electrical situation is fixed and I have the $. I'm also still deciding on what strains I may want to get/keep, learning to germinate seeds w/similar success as I have with clones and hoping to start using some of my trim to make butter(s) and, hopefully, oils. Also, you mentioned that only you could work with your plants including trimming. I thought you were a member of a Compassion Club and that Compassion Clubs consisted of members who shared the responsibilities of growing and harvesting as much as their physical limitations allowed. Again, please excuse my ignorance in these matters. FYI, I too used to breed rabbits. 4-H, State shows and pet stores. I had over 200 once. Their pellets, ground and cured, make for great fertilizer!!! Ppl used to come get it with garbage cans.

RE: trim: The guys who helped me get set up told me to lay it out on sheets of cardboard but I wasn't very happy with the condition of the trim which came off the 1st 5 plants trimmed when I began trimming the rest. It smelled musty, just not quite right. I originally had 5 old window screens I'd cleaned and set up to rest on the edge of a couple 2 x 4's to spread it out on so air could circulate around it. Of course there are much better set ups for drying trim but I'm working with less than a shoestring budget. I did spread the remaining trim on these screens and it looks and smells better. Has anyone ever tried auto trimmers ( with or w/o motors )? If so, with what result? I ask because trimming takes me longer due to 8 yrs. of reconstructive surgeries I underwent on my fingers as a child/teen which makes trimming slower for me.

A couple ??'s re; this web site I wanted to ask: I'm a patient. Does that bar me from interacting in the Caregiver forum? Also, as a patient, can I advertise for patients when I'm ready without having a Caregiver ID? I know a Caregiver can advertise once a month for free but I'm not a registered Caregiver yet. The Compassion Club forums; Are they strictly for members of Compassion Clubs or can I post questions/comments/replies there? I just don't want to make any missteps.

[Blkwlf]

imiubu: Thank you for clearifying that for me and I will definately check out U Tube as well as other resources on the net. I didn't realize there were so many different types of butter and look forward to seeing which I like best. One of my main goals is to make lolipop suckers or lonzeges for myself to use so I can use as little or as much as I need and put away what I don't need for later. For that I'll need to learn to extract the oils in a safe, consistant manner. However, the thought of cooking up some banana, zuchini or carrot bread along with little pies, turnovers and other baked goods sounds great too.

 

For some reason I can't use the quote function, put spaces between lines/paragraphs, edt my own posts, use emocons, underline, highlight, change text size, upload or view pics on this web site. I sent an email via Contact after my 1st post to this web site without any response except the auto response telling me my email was received. If you know how I can reach someone regarding these issues, that would help me be able to cut my responses to posts so every response isn't so long. TYVM

[trichcycler]

no worries, its all in good fun. We all have different reasons for growing cannabis, and different reasons for being in a forum. With all the laws and rules and opinions and posts its a given that there will be disagreements, often daily. We all still share the love, and would in any given moment give our shirt to a fellow poster if needed.

Rib jabs, raucous, and even some heated discussions are the norm on social media. The debates you see today have been going on for years and years.

talking here about sharing clones and community trimming is fine, but a bad habit. If a cop comes and you slipped with the info it could mean a court date.  I want you to avoid the Cannabis Court forever!

[Blkwlf]

Thank you very much grassmatch. I didn't think the discussion was a huge deal. Though I'm not one for places like Twitter, Facebook, etc. I've been online and in Chat rooms/Im's since the early 90's when Aol was the "only kid on the block". I'm very familiar with chat room banter including good friendships and ongoing fueds which never really amount to much. As far as my wording, it was good that someone reminded me. Though I don't tend to panick around police, being raised up by police families, I also know not to trust them on or off the job. A reminder regarding such things as speech in front of them only helps to remind me simply not to speak. ;-) When I mention my hippocricical family, that's one of the things I mean. While my father was still Chief & owned a local, respected business with an apartment in back, my brother came home from college with 3 dz. baby plants and lights which he put on the kitchen desk ( my parents tried to tell me, age 15, that they were tomato plants ). In 2009 when my husband tried his 1st grow behind my horse barn in response to my pain meds making me seriously ill ( 5 plants ), my brother left in a huff and hasn't come back to visit stating he couldn't respect ppl like us. I never even had a chance to try any from that grow because they were a mix of males and females, my husband didn't know, and it took him several years of researching, learning about Caregivers and getting a patient before even trying to grow again. Because of that, we don't talk about this with ANYONE except those in this forum. Many thanks to you guys for looking out!