Will Prosecutors Call 2,000 Patients To Testify In Dispensary Cases?

[williams2311]

i dont agree that caregivers are getting jammed up in the system every day while these are open to any card holder. i think thats the most screwed up part of our law. but to think they have no use is just not reasonable to me

[Wild Bill]

being a caregiver you could land you and your patients in fed court none of this is legal.

 

Quite true, but patients of these dispensaries may be compelled to go to court to testify to the fact that they have broken federal laws.

 

A caregiver is operating legally under State law,  the Feds have said they will no longer pursue those in compliance with State laws.

The dispensaries are not engaged in legal activity as our Michigan Supreme Court has defined it. This means they could be easily brought to the attention of the Feds, as well as their documented customers.

 

Especially if the powers that be want to clear the field for the big players.

[trichcycler]

grassmatch for you to stereotype people that go to dispensery for meds are people caregivers would look over says alot about how you judge a book by its cover. there are all walks of life in the weed world iv seen every type of person in a dispensery. old people young people business people veterans people that can't get out of a wheelchair. u even said in another post you used a delivery service and it was some top shelf. whats the diff in a delivery service and a dispensery?

Lets be fair now, I only offered a few reasons "why a patient may not be able to find a suitable caregiver" right?

If any of the reason I cited are untrue to that statement lets discuss it/them?

 

I'm telling you what you don't know perhaps. Some caregivers are not willing to deliver to a wheelchair bound person, or an old fart, or pill poppers maybe. Some are prejudiced against all kinds of patient traits. I know one who only accepts female patients. Does that "say a lot about how they judge a book by it cover" or maybe they just like female patients eh? 

It is the right of every caregiver to be prejudiced against any patient trait they may find hinders their ability to service correctly.

 

I speak of my meager experience of interviewing hundreds of  patients to find a fraction of "acceptable to me" ones. I am unable to judge any book by its cover because most of my patients don't even meet me until I have sent in our application. By that time our extensive interview has eliminated unhappy, stinky, drug addicts for example, to the best of my ability. Some of my patients are dying, or dead already, severe strokes, old bed ridden people, while some are artists and musicians and some are business owners too.  They each have a lot in common with each other and don't even know it. The cover means nothing to me really, its the chapters inside I care about.

 I also don't accept renters, bet that blows your mind. Of course there are renters that are really cool people, nothing to do with that point. Of course there are some really sick renters in need of cannabis, nothing to with that either. Each patient I accept is a cool person too, and really sick, and in need of cannabis, some caregiver will need to service them too right? why not me? I also wont sign a patient with flames tattooed on their face, not because there are not good patients with flame tats on their face.

 

I've grown most of the Attitude popular offers and found only a fraction that were absolute winners. Not winners for you, or that other gal, but for me. Seems some strains are for some chemotypes while other strains are not. I've never met a person with a similar chemotype that permanently inked his face with flames is all. I am smart enough to know that my chosen strains and brand of service would not please him. That is the key to my service success. I don't waste anytime trying to "fake it for as long as I can"...instead  I just move on.  There are plenty of patients who do share my chemotype and love my brand of service. I aim to keep my assistance limited to those I know I can please without fail. After all it is MY registry, MY garden, MY risks, MY vacationless years, MY privacy, MY family, MY time, MY brand and MY prerogative to allow or not, any patient I deem a fit. I do not apologize for this. The program has kept myself and my patients with the best meds ever, no issues, no drops, no complaints and no misunderstandings. I think I'm doing this the right way for me, I know because it keeps working perfectly. I'm going to keep on doing what I've been doing because I like to keep on getting the results I keep on getting.

 MY program most likely will not work for anyone else though. I spend all of MY non existent vacation time guaranteeing my patients' positive outcomes with great success. Many growers  are not willing to sacrifice this way and service interruptions can occur. I feel bad for patients without a cg. I suggest fishing in a cleaner pond to avoid the mud puppies.

 

I would never supply an item that could put my patients in legal trouble.   In my interviews I don't lie to patients. If they're needing something to eat, huff, snort, or shoot,  I tell them I cannot help them. If they want something other than flowered buds I send them on their way. There are many places to buy illegal drugs and facilitate illegal drug sales, I cannot compete in that type of market, you got me there.

 

That said will you please show to me the law stating that extract of cannabis is not a "preparation thereof"  ? My patients make their own when they want it. I loan them the knowledge. Its not worth the trouble for me to extract from an ounce of premium buds and collect half of the bud value selling it to a patient. I choose to put my efforts in growing exactly what we need, eliminating the pesky overages. I find patients are not willing to reduce their own 28 grams of goodness in exchange for a few grams of oil.

 

(I used a caregiver who sold illegally to anyone with a card when I walked out of the clinic, because the forums argued it was legal to do so then. I asked about a dispensary, and they pointed at the flyers. this was my first day with a doc papers. They were no more a delivery service than I am for my patients, just a balsy cg.)

Edited September 9, 2015 by grassmatch

[Highlander]

what if i need some cbd but im happy with the meds my CG provides but does not deal with cbd. or what if i needed a edible and my caregiver doesnt make them? the disps offers so much more then what any legal caregiver can offer.

 

what if i need some cbd but im happy with the meds my CG provides but does not deal with cbd

Then your CG isn't providing what you need and you should find a new one.

 

or what if i needed a edible and my caregiver doesnt make them?

Make them yourself or find a CG who will make them.  Somebody is makes the edibles that are sold at dispensaries. 

 

the disps offers so much more then what any legal caregiver can offer.

True, but also at a substantially increased cost and risk (i.e. copying your card)

 

Also consider that many CGs will give samples to a prospective patient, and many will supply right away without waiting 20 days.  There is actually a reasonable legal Sec 4 argument for a carded CG to provide meds to a patient the day the patient gets certified.

 

Another thing to consider is that many (most?) caregivers don't need/want to grow a full plant count (unless of course they sell to a dispensary).  It really isn't that hard to find a CG who will supply you while you grow your own.

 

I guess one needs to weigh the costs and benefits.

 

1.  Buy from a dispensary at twice the price, not be able to talk directly to the grower, fund the very businesses who are lobbying against personal grow rights

 

or

 

2.  Use the current program to its full advantage, which satisfies the vast, vast majority of patients' needs.

 

I have no problem with dispensaries, as long as they can never infringe on the current protections offered to patients and caregivers and as long as patients are caregivers are allowed any rights that dispensaries are granted.  So far, it doesn't look like the dispensary lobby is pushing things in this direction.

[+Malamute]

"street dealer with bunny muffin meds or go to a dispensery"

 

 

 

"if your a legal caregiver you wont provide what a dispensery does seeing as concentrate edibles and oil is all illegal to make and have."

 

 

 Dispensaries ARE the street dealers or black market or wtvr you wish to call them.

 

Not sure why people see a difference?

[t-pain]

what some of you are saying is that patients should be restricted from acquiring from anyone but Their cg or themselves?

 

or that law firms should instruct caregivers to not copy cards?

 

just curious...

[+Malamute]

A patient can/should be able to acquire from anyone. Even black market dealers. Whatever it takes.

 

(Opposing Ag opinion on topic: Opinion 7259 excerpt:  "Second, for a patient who designates a registered primary caregiver, the patient acquires his or her marihuana from that primary caregiver. Once a patient designates that single primary caregiver, the Act does not authorize the patient to acquire marihuana from anyone else.")

 

As far as caregivers and cards, why does one need a copy? Doesn't the caregiver card drop the need for such?

[t-pain]

that ag opinion goes against msc opinion, not to mention sec 4 and logic

[+Malamute]

Mostly yes.  But I find the MSC opinion to be a little hedgy on Sec 4 protections on such an issue.  They didn't specifically address the having a CG and still being able to acquire freely.

 

I really do hate Bill Schuette.  And the cutting every corner to rights the courts offer up.

 

 I don't put much past any of them at this point.

 

 So I have to always hedge what I say with the possibility it may change in the future.

[Highlander]

For those who haven't digested this very good legal argument before, with regard to a CG providing meds to a patient from day 1:

 

(b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act. The privilege from arrest under this subsection applies only if the primary caregiver presents both his or her registry identification card and a valid driver license or government-issued identification card that bears a photographic image of the primary caregiver. This subsection applies only if the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed:

(1) 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process; and

(2) for each registered qualifying patient who has specified that the primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility;

 

The simple fact that the law differentiates between a CG providing meds to a "qualifying patient" (not a registered patient) vs growing 12 plants for a "registered qualifying patient" means something. It is simple and basic statutory interpretation rules.   It seems to me that the law allows an already certified CG to provide meds to a "qualifying patient" from day 1, and, once said patient is "registered," the CG can then grow 12 plants on behalf of that patient.  It is the basics of statutory interpretation rules.  There is a reason why the law states "qualifying patient" in one section vs. "registered qualifying patient" in another.  By the basic rules of statutory interpretation, there is/must be a reason for the difference.  The only reasonable interpretation is that the law intended that a CG can provide meds to a qualifying patient with a Dr. cert. on day one and, once the patient is "registered," said CG can grow 12 more plants.  Why else would the MMMA use the term "qualifying patient" (read the definition) vs. a "registered qualifying patient?"

[Highlander]

ok i got one for ya...this actually happened to me i sign on a cg well guess what now i have to wait 21 days to try their meds your not happy because what u were shown at the meeting and what u were sold were different. now you try to find another caregiver and thats another 21 days so without a dispn. your gunna go back to the street dealer with bunny muffin meds or go to a dispensery with what u guys here call bunny muffin weed. go at minimum 40 days without meds? some people cant do that or start growing your own find the lights get started wait 4 months for a crop?

you all talk about sell to anyone that comes in the door but i hear the same people talk about if it was legal to do p2p you would.

you people only think about your situation. some people only can grow 12 might have a lost crop now they must wait 2 or 3 more months for more meds?

i ageee there are some bad dispenserys and iv been to them. poor meds bunny muffin quality but there are some with top shelf meds.

 

grassmatch for you to stereotype people that go to dispensery for meds are people caregivers would look over says alot about how you judge a book by its cover. there are all walks of life in the weed world iv seen every type of person in a dispensery. old people young people business people veterans people that can't get out of a wheelchair. u even said in another post you used a delivery service and it was some top shelf. whats the diff in a delivery service and a dispensery?

 

Do you find it kinda weird that a CG makes you wait 21 days, while a "dispensary" will sell to you on day 1?  Plenty of CGs are comfortable making a transaction to a certified patient on day 1.  The $10 Change Form is pretty cheap, considering the difference in costs between buying from a CG vs. buying from a dispensary.  Why is it that you're OK with paying twice the price from a dispensary, when you could pay half the price of a gram for a Change Form to try one CG today and another tomorrow?  The $10 Change Form fee is probably less than the cost of what a dispensary charges for 1 gram.  You could assign a new CG every other day and still probably pay less in Change Forms than a dispensary would charge you??

[+Malamute]

Its 25 bux a shot for background check too now.

[shishka]

Its 25 bux a shot for background check too now.

FYI, if you have had a felony set aside, you will clear lara.

[t-pain]

btw mal, as I laid awake in pain for a few more hours after posting, I remembered that I may have been remembering the oral arguments and not the msc opinion...

 

these darn msc opinions are half opinions, never answering all questions

[+Malamute]

Yea.  It can become mighty confusing and ii have read so many court cases, arguments and amici from all around the country, I can regularly get confused and sometimes get it wrong.  Always double check is what I say.  Reread  and such. Sometimes ya have to go back and read the COA decision because something stood in the COA decision that wasn't brought up at the MSC level etc.

 

Bleh...

[bobandtorey]

It's all double talk they like to keep people on there Toes

 

That way arrest can go up and $$$ for the Courts