Is Your Certification Doctor Qualified To Certify?

[trichcycler]

"The only other testimony regarding defendant’s condition was that of defendant’s doctor,
who testified that defendant was diagnosed with TMJ and that medical marihuana was likely to
treat defendant’s condition. The doctor was not qualified as an expert in any area, including that
of TMJ or medical marihuana. In fact, the doctor admitted thathe had no formal training with
medical marihuana and knew of no studies that supported its use, “but . . . would very much like
to find out.” With regard to TMJ, the doctor was unable to articulate if he had ever treated any
patients with TMJ; he had merely watched other doctors do so when he was an extern. A
reasonable jury could conclude that without any medical documentation of such a condition, the
marihuana that defendant possessed was not being used to treat his condition."

Seems this court opinion could be used against many of us? Doc has no training.....
Even though the state validates before they approve, in court the scenario is different.
What formal training is available to doctors concerning medical marijuana, and the amounts necessary to treat dis-ease? All leading to "A
reasonable jury could conclude that without any medical documentation of such a condition, the
marihuana that defendant possessed was not being used to treat his condition."

 

GregRx has stated yesterday that none of us have a bonafide relationship with our physician. As a health care professional, and in lieu of this published court opinion,  GregRx's claim  deserves to be explored here imo.
 

[t-pain]

the recent unpub coa , correct.

 

and yes, its more surplusage from the coa.

[Hempcheff]

2 questions...

 Does the MMMA patient need to use cannabis for both a qualifying condition AND the associated pain, or can the patient use cannabis solely for the pain associated with any condition, regardless of whether that condition is on LARAs list of qualifying ones or not.

 

 Does the cert. doctor need to be qualified to treat any and all conditions that a MMMA patient is afflicted with, or only the pain associated with those conditions?

 

For example, i get a root canal and my dentist gives me pain medication. After a few days it still hurts, but i have an appointment with my regular doctor on a separate issue and he gives me a lower dose pain med lets say. He didnt perform the root canal nor has he been trained to, but treated the pain associated with the root canal.

 

The pain medication is not in any way related to the root canal, but alleviates the pain associated with it. 

 

 

333.26423 Definitions.

 

 

3. Definitions.

Sec. 3. As used in this act:

...

(b) "Debilitating medical condition" means 1 or more of the following:

 

(1) Cancer, glaucoma, positive status for human immunodeficiency virus, acquired immune deficiency syndrome, hepatitis C, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, Crohn's disease, agitation of Alzheimer's disease, nail patella, or the treatment of these conditions.

 

(2) A chronic or debilitating disease or medical condition or its treatment that produces 1 or more of the following: cachexia or wasting syndrome; severe and chronic pain; severe nausea; seizures, including but not limited to those characteristic of epilepsy; or severe and persistent muscle spasms, including but not limited to those characteristic of multiple sclerosis.

 

(3) Any other medical condition or its treatment approved by the department, as provided for in section 6(k).....

 

 

 

 

And because:

 

333.26422 Findings, declaration.

 

 

2. Findings.

Sec. 2. The people of the State of Michigan find and declare that:

(a) Modern medical research, including as found by the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine in a March 1999 report, has discovered beneficial uses for marihuana in treating or alleviating the pain, nausea, and other symptoms associated with a variety of debilitating medical conditions.

 

Isnt it already determined that cannabis can be used to treat the pain that is associated with a medical condition and not the actual condition itself?

[t-pain]

1. any debilitating medical condition that causes pain can be written a reccomendation to use mmj.

 

2. good point. no, there is nothing in the act that says a dr must be an expert in anything.

 

3. yes, cannabis used to treat pain of any debilitating medical condition. thats why the recommendation is for 'Severe and Chronic Pain'

[trichcycler]

A paragraph of text from an unknown source. Did you get this from Bill Schuette's personal collection? Or maybe more nonsense from the Court of Appeals?

Actually, (quoted) from your Admins nonsense posts, not mine (this time).

But hey, thanks for the Butt Bite, hope it tastes swell now

[trichcycler]

I always knew the qualifications didn't jibe with this opinion. however, as an opinion, cops know it too, and we know cops don't follow the laws, they follow their opinions, like a LOCKED box in the trunk, ...that's basically turned into the universal law now and I've seen the issue personally, cops follow these nonsensical opinions all the time unfortunately. when they do, and they are poor...who is the winner in court

[t-pain]

i dont think coa unpublished are irrelevent. you know how courts use unpublished when they favor them and ignore unpublished when they do not favor prosecution.

 

once prosecutors see the coa swinging one way , they strike! how many cases were hinged on tut/wick ? a ton! sure those were published opinions. even pub opinions (carruthers) get ignored.

 

they are useful to see patterns (more prescription dosages talk) (more prosecuting of cert drs) and future prosecutor methods and theories that will appear in other cases.

 

i mean, you wouldnt call the unusable marijuana unpub coa opinion irrelevent! you tried to get it published even.

 

i forgot what my point was

[Greg Rx]

If it's unpublished it's basically irrelevant. The Court of Appeals can barely get the circuit courts to obey it's opinions when published. But anyway it's wrong.

And most have lost their controlled substance licenses and/or their ability to bill medicaid. When push comes to shove, they will throw you under the bus, every time.

[trichcycler]

Police can't tell who your doctor is from the card. Having a "bad" doctor will never be the reason for arrest.

 

As far as irrelevance, unpublished opinions barely do anything for defense, and do nothing for police or prosecutors. This opinion is just another one, like everyone has one.

 

I agree, a cop doesn't know who the doc is, but I also know that many times people are not arrested for long periods of time. During this time info can be gained, like a bogus doctor etc. then comes arrest, and there goes a defense when the bogus doc is exposed.

I was operating a couple years ago within the law for months when lara informed me that my card would be null and void if I didn't get another cert soon. seems my doc was missing some credits that semester or similar. Supposing I would have been caught up with a neighbor's olfactory and 011 dialing skills during this time, in court, and its found my doc was a "bogus doc" after all....there goes my defense right?

 

people are being arrested for improper transport, no locked box in the trunk thing. how did that gain traction in court, on the roadside too ?

Edited September 25, 2015 by grassmatch

[trichcycler]

Admins be all over this thread....that's how I know its a good one!

[Greg Rx]

Sorry, but you are wrong here, as I have personally seen the DEA licenses of a great many "medical marijuana" physicians in the state. Where are you getting your information? Are you taking one or two physicians you know about and erroneously applying those facts to the entire group?

Sorry, I am a pharmacist who deals with 100 doctors a day and fill 20 schedule II prescriptions a day. You would never know if a doctor was banned from the medicaid program for fraud or if a doctor lost their CS licenses. No legit doctor is going to waste their time for $100 a pop with no other insurance billing.   With the new federal regulations formally cannabis freindly docs are now writting "no cannabis or ETH" on narcotic scripts.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Greg Rx

[t-pain]

the number of drs who make mmj recs usually does not increase much in many mmj states.

 

to my knowledge, the dea has not gone after mmj rec doctors in vast numbers. mostly only in cases where a dr skips a step (provides pre-signed certs) or something.

[Restorium2]

Sorry, I am a pharmacist who deals with 100 doctors a day and fill 20 schedule II prescriptions a day. You would never know if a doctor was banned from the medicaid program for fraud or if a doctor lost their CS licenses. No legit doctor is going to waste their time for $100 a pop with no other insurance billing.   With the new federal regulations, you can be a regular doctor or a Pot shop but you can not be both. 

For everyone reading this thread, some info:

 

If your mj doctor has been sanctioned by the State, by law they have to send you a letter telling you about it. The doctor has to explain the offence and the penalties placed upon them. All of their patients are supposed to get that letter if they are going to continue to legally practice medicine in Michigan. 

[Greg Rx]

For everyone reading this thread, some info:

 

If your mj doctor has been sanctioned by the State, by law they have to send you a letter telling you about it. The doctor has to explain the offence and the penalties placed upon them. All of their patients are supposed to get that letter if they are going to continue to legally practice medicine in Michigan. 

And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

[Restorium2]

For everyone reading this thread, some info:

 

If your mj doctor has been sanctioned by the State, by law they have to send you a letter telling you about it. The doctor has to explain the offence and the penalties placed upon them. All of their patients are supposed to get that letter if they are going to continue to legally practice medicine in Michigan. 

My cert doc recently was sanctioned for writing control substance prescriptions for a small number of patients that, for some reason, the State found to be not meeting their standards for writing those prescriptions. He is on probation, paying a fine, and continuing to practice. He had to send all of his patients a letter. I thought it might be good, solid, recent info for this thread. 

[suneday11]

^ cheers to real info. Now back to zaps dislike for greg or grass...or whoever today. Is there a poop emojji on here?

Edited September 25, 2015 by suneday11

[Restorium2]

And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

You stated that since you are a pharmacist you knew that patients wouldn't know if their doctor was sanctioned and lost his CS license. I know this to be false from recent first hand experience.  

[Restorium2]

^ cheers to real info. Now back to zaps dislike for greg or grass...or whoever today.

More like: Zap's dislike for bad information that could be harmful to readers. Same reason I post. 

[suneday11]

Yeah, maybe sometimes. Grass and Greg have been called out in this post. Thanks. That's why I gave you props for the good info. And stop hiding resto. We all know you are the anynomous user. Back to lurking fir me I guess. Ever notice the mods almost outnumber active members.

Edited September 25, 2015 by suneday11

[rockinsteady]

So, mods should stop posting? Why are you so negative? Do you consider me an admin (I'm chat room mod)? I don't want to be a considered a "cop" here and have considered giving up the position for that particular reason. I'd like to feel as secure as you do in complaining without "admins suck" being thrown my way. You might like it if there were no admins at all. I really want to make you happy.

 

Grassmatch posts a lot, so you'd expect some of those posts to collide with what mods or admins like.

[suneday11]

To be honest. It's solely zap. I came out months ago about my effing medical conditions in a post that also dealt with th infighting on the site. I guess because I said I said I was finincially unable to donate to the mmma, my threads got booted. It took me days to figure out what happened. Zap then asked me to come to him with problems. Turns out he was pissed about the title of the thread. He even deleted posts about usets questioning why my threads were removed. Well, zap, here's my problem: outside of my family and close friends, I have disclosed my struggles to nobody. I worked up the courage to do so in a community in which I thought I was welcomed. I felt worse the day that I got blasted by zap than I did at diagnosis. I avoid this site often and even events because zap really f'd me up. Never felt so disrespected.

[suneday11]

And my apologies rockinsteady. I'm sure you do great work, and I enjoy most of the mods. Tpain, and imi and been great resources as have many members. Sorry for the negativity. It sucks to be dying.

[trichcycler]

Perhaps there are too many active posters that are admins? It could be that too. It's been mentioned.

Naah, it actually is a good thread

[Restorium2]

And my apologies rockinsteady. I'm sure you do great work, and I enjoy most of the mods. Tpain, and imi and been great resources as have many members. Sorry for the negativity. It sucks to be dying.

May I suggest a good book to help you have a sunny day?

 

Special pick just for you:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flint-by-Louis-LAmour-/301750109169?hash=item4641b543f1

[trichcycler]

Are you really implying that a cop will spend weeks or months investigating a patient or caregiver to find out who their doctor is just in case it is one of the "bad" doctors? That won't happen, ever.

nope, not at all. I am saying 1st a court speaks an opinion, 2nd opinion gets spread by cops, then by misunderstood posters statewide, next thing you know tpain has a whole thread on the arrests that are happening outside of our marijuana laws. all of a sudden opinions matter enough for the system to drain even more cash from us sick while we attempt to defend ourselves from the opinion that became the law.