Octopot/central Reservoir Experiment

[semicaregiver]

On Oct 5th I started an experiment where I replaced the Octopot's single reservoir with a larger reservoir that would support 6 plants.  In addition I am testing different soils and the use of a smart pot/5"net pot instead of the proprietary Octopot setup.

 

I was impressed with the results that Grass and others have had with Octopots as well as an experiment I ran on two plants back in the spring.  I liked the results, but the idea of daily checking water levels in 30 plus individual reservoirs did not seem like an advance over checking the levels in 30 plus DWC buckets.   I have seen multiple octopot set ups online where the reservoirs were tied together to allow feeding from a common reservoir, but I have been there with DWC and the systems seem to always leak at just the wrong time.  

 

The set-up consists of an 80 gallon reservoir, three stands to support the octopot bases, a simple toilet type float valve for the automatic introduction of water, a pvc cover with three 11" openings for the octopots and three 6" openings for the smartpot/net pot setups.  The 80 gallon reservoir and the funky float valve set in a 5 gallon bucket were left overs from other experiments.  A more shallow flood and drain table type reservoir would be the ideal reservoir.   The 5 gallon bucket has the bottom cut out to provide for the passage of the refill water and by cutting the bucket to just the right height, it also acts as a support for the reservoir cover.  

 

The octopot "pots" are their fabric sleeves with their plastic bottom insert.   The smart pots are 5 gallon fabric pots with an X cut in the bottom.  The X was cut to the diameter of a 5" net pot and the pot jammed in.   The thought was to create some fabric tabs that would stick down into the reservoir and hopefully duplicate the wicking effect that the apron of the octopot has.

 

There are three different soils in the test.   A KISS mixture, Grassmatch's rec'c of promix with 4 cups of Botanicare's dry Bloom mixture, and lastly a Living Organic Soil mixture.   For each soil mix there is one Octopot and one Smart Pot.

 

Lighting is 12/12, 1000w hps, brand new Solistek bulb.  The room has A/C and a fan, but no CO2

 

The plants are Bubba Kush all taken from the same mother and started in 1 gallon pots approx 90 days earlier and 24" in height.  

 

Ideally I will not add anything other than water over the next 60 days.  And, that should happen automatically.    

Edited October 10, 2015 by semicaregiver

[trichcycler]

Bad Azz !!!!   I am following this for sure!

 

I have learned over this year that it is the bag itself responsible for the water wicking, and enough air exchange to prevent root rot.

as long as some of the bag is in the water it continues to wick, even up the sides of the bag

[imiubu]

This should be fun, I'm following.

[trichcycler]

should only take a week to see success or failure. If the sides of the bag remain damp you have success. The rest of the action is a given.

[semicaregiver]

Interesting question Grass.   Thinking back to your earlier post I was just checking the bags this AM.   Indeed I became concerned that the SmartPot's are too moist.   There is no question that water is being wicked up by the SmartPots, but I am thinking it may take a week or so to come to any conclusion as to whether they are equal, better or worse.     

 

The lower inch or two of the SmartPot is definitely wet to the touch, but the Octopot bags do not feel wet.   I concluded that they too are wet by pressing in on the bottom edges of the bag and feeling that the soil has a squishy feel (That is a scientific term).   Also, I can check the uptake of moisture on the SmartPots by feeling under them.   I designed the reservoir cover to have just a 6" opening for the 5" net pot to sit in.   This was due to the problems everyone has observed with the poor support that the Octopot system provides for a top heavy pot and plant.  My plan was to let the bulk of the SmartPot be supported by the reservoir lid.  The underside of the SmartPot is definitely wet.  

 

The plants have adapted to the pots and indeed all seem to have grown a inch or so since transplanting.   I began 12/12 on the same day I transplanted from 1 gallon to 5 gallon.

 

They are definitely using water.  Over the week that they have been in place they have gone thru 5-6 gallons.   Prior to starting the cycle I had the reservoir and auto fill system set up for two weeks.  I wanted to make sure it held the water level I wanted.  During that time the tank sat uncovered and had four airstones running in the water.   The tank lost only a gallon to evaporation.  It lost so little that I questioned whether the auto fill valve was working.   To test it I scooped out about 10 gallons from the reservoir and sure enough the auto fill system brought the level back up.   I point this out only to demonstrate that I am pretty sure that the 5-6 gallons that I have added this week would have gone to the plants.   As a point of reference, I soaked each pot on start up with 6 quarts of water.

 

As a side note I am really liking the ballast I am using.  Back 6 months ago I was given a Solistek remote control 1000W ballast by a supplier as a thank u for a large purchase.  It had been sitting around since then as a backup and I thought this would be a great spot to use it.   I am very much an analog type person when it comes to trusting equipment that needs to run 100% of the time.  All of my lights in my main bloom room are operated via industrial relays and the actual timers are basic $10 mechanical timers that you would use for a night light.   The relays take all the load and the timers see only a milli amp load.  The ballast are basic magnetic ballast. Anyway, the Solistek ballast has all the timing built in and with the push of a button I can raise or lower the output wattage from 400W to 1200w.  Kind of cool, you push the remote button and it gradually raises or lowers the light output to your new setting.  

[trichcycler]

the bottoms of my octos are soaked also causing no issues this year.  I think you've got a winner there!

Edited October 12, 2015 by grassmatch

[semicaregiver]

It has been 9 days now and I am finding some interesting things.  

 

One, the soil in all the pots is very wet just an inch below the surface.  When I did just the single Octopot, the pot dried out in most of the upper half.    I am thinking of resetting the auto reservoir level maybe an inch lower.  The height I set it at was based on the level for a full Octopot reservoir.     

 

Two, the SmartPot/net pot combo has the roots coming out the bottom like DWC.   In one or two of the SmartPots, there are even roots poking thru the bottom fabric.   There are no roots poking thru any of the slots in the Octopot plastic bottom section. 

 

I took photos of the bottoms and will add them.   Kind of a chore to move them from the phone to the computer and then remove all the tags that the phone puts on photos.

Edited October 16, 2015 by semicaregiver

[trichcycler]

my octos are dry on top, damp 6 inches in, wet at the bottom, so you're on to something there, maybe too much water wicking, but at least its wicking. I end up with a ton of roots on the outside of the bag and some whoppers hanging down through the octo bases into the water.

did you add air btw? I do not use air in these but they're filled every few days.

[trichcycler]

also, what are your covers made of, the ones that cover the water?

thanks

[semicaregiver]

No air.   I was trying to use a reservoir I had, this one is far deeper than need be and as a result has a lot of capacity.  it is about 12 inches from cover to bottom. 

 

The cover is a pvc type sheeting that is sold in HD for paneling(4x8) in wet areas.  Usually see it as a wall covering in low end public bathrooms.   The cover is two layers of the sheeting with a 3 mil sheet of black poly (heavy duty construction grade trash bag from HD) between.   I have used this before for an aeroponic setup.    I found that a single layer of the pvc actually let light thru.

 

As a footnote.  I had determined that the full water level on the octopots comes to the top of the upper slot on its net pot type basket bottom.   I plan to adjust it down about an inch.   

 

In my original octopot test back in the spring, I did not see any roots passing thru the fabric and just a few, an inch or two hanging in the reservoir.   The interesting thing is none on the Octo's but some on all three SmartPots with the best on the Living Organic Soil pot.  

Edited October 16, 2015 by semicaregiver

[trichcycler]

+1 for taking one for the team !

I know exactly how expensive it is to do so.

 

The plastic sheeting was a huge plus info to me, thank you for the HD thought.

 

no doubt in my mind you'll tweak this tight. now I cant help but think about a larger scale reservoir.

 

I wonder of the issues with one large reservoir, like yours even. I cant wait to see finish! I have not experienced one

offish smell yet, and nothing but healthy roots right down to the water. Recycling is heavy, but I have a little cart now.

but one large res would be a blessing perhaps......hurry up and report the success....my head spinning a little.

Edited October 16, 2015 by grassmatch

[semicaregiver]

I finally had time to clean up the photos and post them.  Attached are pics of each of the six pots at 9 days into 12/12.   The best one seems to be the Living Organic Soil (LOS) ones in both the Octopot and the SmartPot.   At this point I am curious how this will turn out since I had a rather negative report from a friend on this particular sample of LOS.   He grows in a standard SmartPot with top watering and found that around the 6 week mark the LOS compacted to the point where it did not seem to absorb water and the plants were close to dying.   

 

Also shown are pics of before and after I lowered the reservoir levels.  I was aiming for 3/4", but the float valve adjustment is rather crude, you bend the arm just like in a toilet float, so I ended up with lowering the level 5/8".  It should be noted that the frame that the square is resting on is the support frame for the Octopot.   In operation the top of the support frame sits about 1/4" below the surface of the reservoir lid.   This is approx. the relationship of the Octopot's individual reservoir lid to the bottom edge of the Ocotpots plastic bottom.  I have no idea how important this is, just thought I would note it.

[semicaregiver]

I always hate when someone starts a grow thread, but does not finish it.   With this experiment it was easy to ignore finishing it.  The experiment seems to have been a 90% failure.  

 

The primary observation was that it confirmed Grass's choice of ferts, Botanicare's Pure line of granular fert's as being the best.  

 

A second observation is the Octopot grow bag/pot seems to have an advantage over using a smart pot (these were the Smart Pot brand of fabric pots).

 

The net result from the six different plants was a total of just shy of 1 dry ounce, i.e. total failure.  The #'s were as follows:

 

 

 

Living Organic Soil...   Octopot 5 gm      Smart Pot 3gm

KISS formula...........    Octopot 3 gm    Smart Pot 3.5 gm

Botanicare Pure......    Octopot  10 gm   Smart Pot 3 gm

 

 

While I could have done a number of different things to improve the results during the bloom period, I made a point not to.    The goal of the experiment was to find out if the Octopot type system could produce an acceptable yield without any grower involvement other than making sure the water fill system, lights and temp controls were all functioning. 

 

Subjective observations....

 

The soil in the smart pots seemed to stay too moist.   During the entire bloom period (60 days) the top of the soil was always damp, while the Octopot pots where only moist about 3 inches down.  In each case the soil was always loose and easy to work your hand into through the entire 60 day run.    I am guessing this is the result of two things, geometry and fabric.   While each pot held about the same amount of soil, the Octopot pot is taller and narrower than the Smart Pot.  This would seem to prevent water from wicking up to the very surface of the pot.  Also the fabric might be more porous on the Octopot.

 

The stain I chose was a poor choice given what I learned about the apparent moisture problem.  The strain, Blue Dream, uses much less water than any other strains I have ever grown.   In a normal soil set up, I have found that a 5 gallon pot of Blue will need watering every 4-5 days vs. 2-3 for strains like OG.     

 

Another thought/speculation was that a constant reservoir level may not be a good thing.   To create a hands off system, my reservoir included a simple float valve that maintained a constant level in the reservoir.   This is contrary to the way that the basic Octopot was designed and may infact be why the mfg. does not offer a single large reservoir system or networked units much like you see with DWC.    Operated individually, an Octopot reservoir will allow the water level to drop approx. 3" before refilling.   In turn this will most likely cause the level of moisture in the soil to move up and down.   

 

Not sure what else to add.  I was disappointed to the point that I will not be doing any more Octopot experiments.   In my mind, it would have been worthwhile to experiment further if the yield was in the 1.5-2 oz/plant, but with the avg being 3 grams and only one at 10 it seemed that there are better avenues to explore.

 

I should point out, I like the Octopot system and was pleased when I tried it the way it is sold as a single reservoir system.   My goal was to create a hands off system and I thought I might be able to do it with an Octopot.   One still might be able to, but I do not want to invest any more of my time given the terrible initial results.

[AbominableDro-Man]

I've never used granular nutes, is feeding different than with liquid nutrients? At first though, I think of granular nutrients as just measured out and then dumped into X gallons as a solid and dissolved, yes? 

 

Are liquid nutrient regimens not an option then with the Octo's?

 

How would you say the Octo's, in your experience, perform as solo units? 

[semicaregiver]

As solo units, the octo's are great. Their greatest strength is in being a low involvement system. You can mix dry, granular ferts into your soil mix and then just use plain water in the reservoir. The plant will do the work of finding the nutrients and getting its own water from the reservoir.

 

You will not optimize production, but neither will you need to spend a lot of time fusing over all the little things one does to tweek the plant.

 

You can do a liquid nute regiment, but it must not be organic nutes. They will go bad in the resv. Old school salt based nutes only.

 

The granular ferts are just that, granules. They are dry, no mixing with water. Mix them into the soil and just top off the reservoir when the level drops.

[trichcycler]

I agree mostly, but how could you say "you will not optimize production"?  how many octopot productions have you tried in a dialed in room with all needs met?

 

the pots dont make growing any better, or worse, only meets particular grow styles, watering frequency etc mentioned above. Matter of fact my only issues with them are pot balancing, and change outs. Otherwise they produce the healthiest plants I've seen pictured here. Until EVERY other parameter is met properly I wouldnt have realized the advantages of any system in the garden.  They aren't for everyone, some like to tinker, or water daily, or are used to frequent additives and fuss. Some love the ease of watering, and the genius of bottom feeding.

I have six foot high yielding plants if I dont take special care to limit them. Not once in awhile, but most every time. I did not have that issue with bagged or bucketed bottom fed plants in the same room, same food, same everything, except bottom feeding.....the key to octo success.   Believe me, if they were not the very best system (for me), theyd be in the rafters like the other half dozen grow systems I've reviewed. Hempy buckets, aero...produced the fastest fyi, but come with there own set of issues. some over come them, some don't like the fuss, like all systems, they ALL performed perfectly, just some not as user friendly as others.

[semicaregiver]

Grass,

 

You are right about "optimize".   My thinking was regards to endless urges folks seem to have to tweak every last gram of production out of a plant with all sorts of additives, flushes, teas, etc.   That said, there is no question that with regards to the ease and simplicity of the octo system, you as the grower can optimize your efforts.  

[trichcycler]

Grass,

 

......endless urges folks seem to have to tweak every last gram of production out of a plant with all sorts of additives, flushes, teas, etc.

I hear ya^^ I  seemed to be working all the time with my flood drain systems in flower. It did prove to be the driest of all the hydro systems I've used, but I needed a half dozen different reservoirs with my perpetual grow then...what a pain. When I switched to dirt/organicare I loved the ease. Still do that in veg. In flower these are near hands off thingys. I'm recently adding salt ferts to some of the reservoirs with really remarkable differences. Not sure if the added cost is worth it, but they are improved. This convinces me that my organicare while may be enough to do the job... it may not be the most complete. I do this with 25% of my flowering plants at this time for several harvests. I run a straight six gallons of water at around 50 days. Waters used up and bag is drying out around 65 for my varieties. I'm impressed with the results every time. Patients don't detect the differences but I do, in and out of the garden. ecogrowcom makes their own basal salt mixes since the early 70's. Its the first I knew of and the purest I've since found and used, highly recommended.

 

are you going to give up on them, or use them as directed some more?