Help Ohio Legalize Marijuana

[t-pain]

Different politics. In Washington, Colorado, Alaska, and, Oregon they stopped prosecuting patients and caregivers after the medical marijuana laws passed. I bet arrests there even went down.

do you really think police are different in michigan vs colorado?

does the drug war not exist in the magical politics land of colorado or washington?

 

colorado's mmj law was signed into law in 2001. now heres the graph of possesion arrests:

 

http://www.regulatemarijuana.org/sites/default/files/marp_-_colorado_marijuana_arrest_report.pdf

 

 

the arrests look fairly even after medical marijuana.

 

we do not have the statistics of medical marijuana arrests in colorado or michigan (or any other state), so to make that statement would be foul.

 

http://www.newapproachoregon.com/arrestsandcitations/

 

oregon arrests were up 53%, the oregon mmj law was signed 1998.

http://www.newapproachoregon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Alt-Fact.2.pdf

(yeah its a bad graph with no y-axis)

 

heres washingtons' arrests, their law was signed in 1998.

 

http://marijuana-arrests.com/docs/240,000-Marijuana-Arrests-In-Washington.pdf

 

 

if you add up the numbers, the arrests were increasing in washington (before legalization). as shown in this graph of 5-year periods.

 

 

i didnt look up alaska. gotta run. as they say in canada, peace ooot.

[Restorium2]

Plea bargains and such really skew the statistics. And lobbyists will even bribe to help skew statistics. All you need to do is look at the laws and the penalties to draw your arse up. Marijuana isn't legal anywhere. Not even close to it. 

[Norby]

Well, you're not doing near enough for your plan to work.  I do wish you the best of luck because I have the same vision, I truly do, but forgive me if I vote yes to stand together with other people since no one can do this themselves and tehre doesn't seem to be too many options. Let me know when you get the rough draft and I'll see if I can stand behind it.

[Restorium2]

So you out telling all these people? Cause I haven't seen you present much except opinion and avenues that don't work.  If everyone would just listen to Resto and vote all teh republicans out or adopt the bill he's written, we'd be fine, or we can wait?  When you gonna be done with that?  Seems to not think seems to be your problem.  How do you propose we get the advertisement needed to get everyone behind us and see how the law is not working, cause I have to tell my patients since some of them don't even know dispensaries are still illegal.  What's your plan?

Right now I'm making sure cannabis folks understand the true implications of fake legalization. You are actually creating a lot of work for me right now. Otherwise I would probably just be a quiet reader. 

[Restorium2]

Well, you're not doing near enough for your plan to work.  I do wish you the best of luck because I have the same vision, I truly do, but forgive me if I vote yes to stand together with other people since no one can do this themselves and tehre doesn't seem to be too many options. Let me know when you get the rough draft and I'll see if I can stand behind it.

Yup. I understand. You are among the 'seem to think' crowd and it's much more popular to be all about legalization even though it's fake. It's more your style.

[Norby]

Insanity is what it is here.  you guys/gals have NO plan except to wait, you answer none of the questions about people who the law would actually protect, your excuse is more people will get arrested without addressing the ones being arrested now and the ones it WOULD protect(without proof that penalties aren't going down, which could be misleading), you say the MMMA is protecting people and you advocate for that but then say we shouldn't open it up for rec users cause more would get arrested, without seeing med users without an approved condition would get help AND rec users currently not protected.  You only pose more questions and look at NOTHING the law would help, that's a problem.  Forgive me but I'm out, if you can't see any good coming out of this law it seems there are other motives at hand and I'm not going to try and defy logic to understand you're views.  If you think voting the way Shuette does is going to accomplish anything then go at it.  I'm sorry but I just don't see it for the reasons listed.  Good day, mine will be better once I stop this constant bickering over stuff that matters not considering the few people involved.  But thanks for the insults. Like I'm actually OK with more money going to cops to bust mj users, please I've looked at the law and see more good than bad and i'm quite intelligent and weigh the good moreso than the bad and I believe I've made a good decision, I'm the one who has to live with it and throwing people under the bus(rec users and patients not qualifying who voted for the MMMA) who got me here doesn't bode well for me.

[outsideinthecold]

Once past the juvenile personal insult stuff this thread has been very interesting and personally challenging for me.

 

T-pain, to answer your question, no I don't know of any Michigan Republicans who have publically taken a stand against prohibition.

 

That said, I would wager you know some Michigan Democrats who have publically supported continuing Prohibition. Sander Levin comes to mind but there are many more Democrats who actively support Prohibition starting with the religious left's reverends and preachers.

 

I have some familiarity with Alaska. Pot has been effectively legal there for years. Yes, many still get arrested. But it is the politicians and the political police leadership that are out-of-step with the broader consensus. Nothing unusual about that, however.

 

Washington State ain't perfect but perfection is hard to find in human affairs. I loved the Camas park bench in spite of the gagging stench of the paper mill down the street. I will visit Portland again soon and test the waters there but the nice, young fellow in the apartment down the hall from my son is really convenient and cheap in comparison to the prices posted on weed maps.

 

Resto raises many good points, in effect arguing for the anarchy of an unrestricted free market for cannabis, free meaning without interference from the government. Is there a paradox when someone wants bigger government in some sectors of the economy and less government in others?

[Restorium2]

Once past the juvenile personal insult stuff this thread has been very interesting and personally challenging for me.

 

T-pain, to answer your question, no I don't know of any Michigan Republicans who have publically taken a stand against prohibition.

 

That said, I would wager you know some Michigan Democrats who have publically supported continuing Prohibition. Sander Levin comes to mind but there are many more Democrats who actively support Prohibition starting with the religious left's reverends and preachers.

 

I have some familiarity with Alaska. Pot has been effectively legal there for years. Yes, many still get arrested. But it is the politicians and the political police leadership that are out-of-step with the broader consensus. Nothing unusual about that, however.

 

Washington State ain't perfect but perfection is hard to find in human affairs. I loved the Camas park bench in spite of the gagging stench of the paper mill down the street. I will visit Portland again soon and test the waters there but the nice, young fellow in the apartment down the hall from my son is really convenient and cheap in comparison to the prices posted on weed maps.

 

Resto raises many good points, in effect arguing for the anarchy of an unrestricted free market for cannabis, free meaning without interference from the government. Is there a paradox when someone wants bigger government in some sectors of the economy and less government in others?

The last bastion of hope for the prohibitionists. The last fear appeal. It's just more refer madness. 

[Norby]

Right now I'm making sure cannabis folks understand the true implications of fake legalization. You are actually creating a lot of work for me right now. Otherwise I would probably just be a quiet reader.

 

Ahh so you'd just let things go and do no work?  The people I'm talking about don't read this website and your posts don't do ANYTHING for people here, they already have a view, it's only for you to blow off steam because you seem to need an enemy or just really have a problem with people presenting their view.  Because if you had actual points that don't get overshadowed by something you give no credit to I'd actually think the same as you, I do in a lot of ways but you seem to need to twist them to give yourself something to argue about. I haven't seen a shred of evidence from you that makes me think otherwise, your points are nonpoints with me because they're either needed to get public support to defeat the bad cops and judges or are already going on.

 

Yup. I understand. You are among the 'seem to think' crowd and it's much more popular to be all about legalization even though it's fake. It's more your style.

Better than being selfish.  So everyone has to think like you? People who go thru a 1/4 a week don't count, gotcha.  I'd rather be with the group than a radical who never gets any satisfaction because he expects the world to be handed to him.

 

All I know is that writing a new law when the previous one is being trampled is not a plan.

Previous one doesn't cover other people, so your saying all rec users and people not covered by the MMMA should just wait?  You'll get to it when you can?  You should take a strategy class.  The new law would better protect the people in the MMMA since you couldn't search a car because the smell would be in every one. The sheer # of people traveling and cops on the road would be a better protection for patients.  It would switch teh focus on teh avg joe.  Do you know nothing of mimicry?  It's a great protection in nature and would help with strategy.  Like I said, you advertising how bad tehy're trampling the MMMA?  Where are you going to get support, public outrage, people to actually attend court locally?

[Norby]

My position is and always has been that the MMMA superceded the public health code prohibition on cannabis. The MMMA does cover everyone. Some must be caregivers.

What does that have to do with the price of tea?  Obviously politicians and judges don't think the same.  What are you doing to change that because if it's nothing then it really doesn't matter does it?

Edited October 28, 2015 by Norby

[imiubu]

I have been told to my face by MiLegalize crew members that Repealing Prohibitions will not happen ...

but, if there is a petition/ ballot initiative... they would certainly vote for it. 

Now if that ain't speaking out both sides of their mouth... I don't know what is.

 

I would rather stand alone on my belief that this is not the time nor the language I want implemented

(yes, don't remind me again this is OHIO thread).

 

ALONE with my beliefs still leaves me my integrity.

 

If others want to jump off this cliff, fine... I don't need to follow.

[Norby]

Then people can grow their own and get around all that.  You're never going to get gov't off our backs by taking away the money thru the system, they'll find it somewhere.  Right now thru forfeiture from cannabis users and other unluckies)  You get rid of gov't by doing things yourself or within a small group of friends.  Trying to get out of the system by rigging the system won't work, not unless you have wallstreet lawyers and they have them all right now).  If you want to take money away from cops do it seperate from a legalization bill or do it by using the grow your own part and not the retail part but don't ramsack it because of your vision for the future.  Maybe that part of the bill is the only reason some WILL vote for it that don't smoke, so they don't have to pay for the added police crap.  Maybe what you want would have no chance of passing anytime soon. 

 

I'd also put forth MiLegalize and vote for a decrim initiative.  It's not talking out both sides to hedge bets so you win something.  They, like me, are probably for it but don't think it has a chance.

Jump off the cliff protect lots of people, same thing eh. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by Norby

[t-pain]

Plea bargains and such really skew the statistics.

please explain how ARRESTS statistics have anything to do with plea bargains.

[t-pain]

My position is and always has been that the MMMA superceded the public health code prohibition on cannabis. The MMMA does cover everyone. Some must be caregivers.

the mich supreme court disagrees, and has upheld that the phc supercedes the mmma since 2009.

 

although there was some inkling in tut/wick of it conflicting, i wonder if tut/wick would re-appeal on that base?

 

until theres a lawyer out there (and also a defendant) willing to go the full mile.......

[t-pain]

If they had removed the public health code charging statues, I would think differently.

as much as we disagree on some small points, of course i think everyone agrees on getting marijuana out of the CSA/PHC...

 

although we were all unable to convince milegalize (and mcc and mrc) of removing marijuana from the csa/phc.

[imiubu]

Then people can grow their own and get around all that.  You're never going to get gov't off our backs by taking away the money thru the system, they'll find it somewhere.  Right now thru forfeiture from cannabis users and other unluckies)  You get rid of gov't by doing things yourself or within a small group of friends.  Trying to get out of the system by rigging the system won't work, not unless you have wallstreet lawyers and they have them all right now).  If you want to take money away from cops do it seperate from a legalization bill or do it by using the grow your own part and not the retail part but don't ramsack it because of your vision for the future.  Maybe that part of the bill is the only reason some WILL vote for it that don't smoke, so they don't have to pay for the added police crap.  Maybe what you want would have no chance of passing anytime soon. 

 

I'd also put forth MiLegalize and vote for a decrim initiative.  It's not talking out both sides to hedge bets so you win something.  They, like me, are probably for it but don't think it has a chance.

Jump off the cliff protect lots of people, same thing eh. 

 

eh... why not start advocating for what would really 'free the weed' instead then Norb?

Why put energies into something you know is broken from the git?  How will it have

a chance if peeps keep yapping about pseudo legalization?

 

get the truth out there... I do.  I speak to anyone that I possibly can about cannabis no matter

where I am, young and old alike and I do not promote quasi legalization.  Actually the older

crowd has a much better handle on how gov't actually operates and... if they are truly enlightened

are mad as hell they have been lied to about cannabis and are very receptive to learning more.

 

A few of you here seem to assume that some of us are just keyboard warriors... please do not assume

you know what I or anyone does off this forum to promote a safe environment for all cannabis users.

geesh.

 

btw... treating cannabis like the tomato plant ... the gov't will make plenty of cash off it at point of sale.

Why does this get so hard to understand?

OH I KNOW.. reefer madness brain can't see past creating more laws to 'fix' the issues.

[t-pain]

i look at the people in this thread and then i look at the people in the dr tarzan thread and then i wonder about things.

[imiubu]

wtf is that suppose to mean t?

 

Sometimes you come across as a big weenie imho.

 

Who made you better than others?

 

cripes.

[t-pain]

my comment was intended to inspire deep thought. i wonder if tarzan supports legalization efforts.

[imiubu]

Well then... I guess I took it wrong and I must go do some deep thinking on the matter.

[t-pain]

its ok imiubu, its the way i talk. most people cannot tell if i'm insulting or joking, serious or joking, trolling or serious. some people hate me for it. its a curse...

 

like this. people will think i'm trolling but here goes another thought:

 

if you decrim marijuana plant , it will end up like the poppy flower.

 

beautiful, legal to grow, but if you cultivate it into opium its highly illegal.

 

another on topic thought:

 

they say ohio voting on issue 3 will be a monopoly test , and it will corrupt states into thinking they can monopolize marijuana?

 

pfft. michigan beat them to the punch 2 years ago.

 

sb 0660 , signed into law by rick snyder would effectively give prarie plant systems the monopoly to grow "pharmacuietical grade cannabis" in some mine in the UP.

 

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-368-1978-8

 

how easily we forget.

[imiubu]

Okay t... I get that.  Written word is def subjective and perhaps I was feeling a bit pissy when I responded.

It is not the 1st. time I thought it... only the 1st. I mentioned it

You are a knowledgeable guy and you sure know where to find information.  I do appreciate your contributions both on

and off the forums.

 

660 got slammed through as we know yet it is for 'pharmaceutical grade', that should give us big hints as to 'their' intentions.

 

I am of the opinion that there is room for all, big warehouse and small home grows.  It's not like my little 2 plants

will cause these big money operations to loose profit.  Wanting the entire pie is what irks me and to make up lies

about the dangers of home growing to keep a monopoly is what we all must fight against... including Ohio.

Anyone that wants to join in sales can.  Point of sale being the only time there is taxes.  State sales tax @ 6% is all they

need and it will still be a huge boon to our economy.

 

Oh well... I am but a lay person and I may not understand legalese as well as others but I can see the big bend over

coming to home growers... and a piece of paper isn't going to stop us from being screwed.

 

It's like the gov't can't just 'take back' prohibition so they are waiting for us to box ourselves in w/ our own words (initiatives)

so we think we have made progress... then they just come in and hack it up and when we complain... well, it's what you all

voted for...

bah.

[t-pain]

T-pain, to answer your question, no I don't know of any Michigan Republicans who have publically taken a stand against prohibition.

maybe the posthumous-lyons that introduced 4210 this time around? i have not checked her record...