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Topical Salve - Im Now A Believer But Have Questions


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Does anyone know how the topical salves work? I really didn't think the mechanism was there for them to work. But seems Ive been wrong.

 

It bugs me not to really have the answer to how the salves work topically to relieve pain [no CNS involvement with topical] with inflammation  I can at least see a possible way for the cannabis to work. But I am not clear on what the  properties are that could be reducing the inflammation.

 

Google wasn't much help and trying to dig through all the crap sales ads is annoying. I was hoping someone here might save me a headache in further searching

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One way, among many, that cannabis works; Inflammation is part of the normal healing process. There's an interaction that takes place between key molecules. When our immune systems get hyper active this interaction can get out of control and do more harm than good. Many diseases are attributed to this out of control immune system problem.  Cannabis can slow the out of control inflammation process to the point that it's back in the normal range and can play it's roll in the normal healing process. 

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If you look at how the expensive designer drugs work you will see that cannabis does the same thing in the same way. 

Advair for asthma, cannabis does the same thing. Entercepts for arthritis, cannabis does the same thing. They have been mimicking what cannabis does for a long time whether they know it or not. Look to the artificial drugs they have invented to see how they work to learn about how cannabis works with your body. 

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Does anyone know how the topical salves work? I really didn't think the mechanism was there for them to work. But seems Ive been wrong.

 

It bugs me not to really have the answer to how the salves work topically to relieve pain [no CNS involvement with topical] with inflammation  I can at least see a possible way for the cannabis to work. But I am not clear on what the  properties are that could be reducing the inflammation.

 

Google wasn't much help and trying to dig through all the crap sales ads is annoying. I was hoping someone here might save me a headache in further searching

 

I will try to answer your question. 

 

There are many variables to consider. Basically the CBDs, at least 66 known, of course the terpenes, 144 known, can potentially absorb through the skin and reduce inflammation, especially the terpenes.

 

The method of making the salve and quality of the product will also have a lot to do with its effectiveness and ability to absorb and provide relief.

 

If you are interested in topicals, I highly recommend the book Modern Essentials, Sixth Edition. It has taught me things I have not read on any marijuana fourm. For instance, they discuss different carrier oils such as fractionated coconut oil and almond oil, using other terpene extracts (essential oils) for different purposes. It just may be a good investment for you.

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In general; Most of our chronic diseases are found to be linked to our immune system problems created by triggers in our environment. Whether it be the food you eat or the air you breath, triggers make our immune systems go haywire. Cannabis can smooth out these episodes by getting in the way of the adverse reactions of our immune systems until we figure out how to stop the triggers. 

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good information, but they leave out many facts. It is a very narrow take on it.

 

Here is an excerpt from Rosemary Gladstar's Herbal Recipes.

 

"Salves and ointments

Once you've made herbal oil, you're a step away from a salve. Salves and ointments (basically different terms for the same product) are made of beeswax, herbs, and vegetable (or animal) oil. The oil is used as a solvent for the medicinal properties of the herb and provides a healing, emollient base. The beeswax also adds a soothing, protective quality and provides the firmness necessary to form the salve. Some people recommend adding natural preservatives to the mixture, such as vitamin E or tincture of benzoin, but I've never found it necessary or any more effective.

Step 1. Prepare an infused oil following hte instructions above. Strain.

Step 2. To each cup of herbal oil. add 1/4 cup of beeswax. Heat until the beeswax is completely melted. To check for consistency, place 1 tablespoon of the mixture in the freezer for just a minute or two. If it's too soft, add more beeswax; if too hard, add more oil.

Step 3. Remove from heat immediately and pour into small glass jars or tins. Store any extra salve in a cool, dark place. Stored properly, salves will last for months, even years."

 

 

That article did not mention a lot of things. For example: the feet are the second fastest area of the body to absorb oils due to the large pores. Other quick absorbing areas are behind the ears and on the wrists.

 

In the Modern Essentials book it mentions to layer the different terpene extracts vs. mixing them. You can layer them over each other within seconds because the skin absorbs them quickly. Terpenes easily penetrates skin. The layering technique is not only useful for physical healing, but also in emotional clearing, especially when using other terpene extracts. 

 

Just a couple of examples from the books.

 

With some of the essential oils, just applying anywhere on the body, you also inhale the "fumes" which in turn would be considered aroma therapy.

 

Cannabis is capable of providing the same aroma therapy if done properly.

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I am against most modern treatments. I like to look for safer alternatives and potentially far more effective.

 

Here is the real story on Steve Jobs. He fought his cancer for 20 years utilizing alternative treatments and diet. The article is worth the read.

http://draxe.com/steve-jobs-twenty-year-battle-with-pancreatic-cancer/#

 

In the book Rosebary Gladstar's Herbal Recipes for Vibrant Health, it offers 175 teas, tonics, oils, salves, tinctures, and other natural remedies for the entire family.

 

For my personal use, I usually like to add some concentrated cannabis oil into the recipes. Sometimes I will also add in additional essential oils.

 

Here is a basic example of a slave recipe. It is mentioned to be for Athletes Foot, but is also good for dry cracked skin;

Antifungal Salve

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good information, but they leave out many facts. It is a very narrow take on it.

 

Here is an excerpt from Rosemary Gladstar's Herbal Recipes.

 

"Salves and ointments

Once you've made herbal oil, you're a step away from a salve. Salves and ointments (basically different terms for the same product) are made of beeswax, herbs, and vegetable (or animal) oil. The oil is used as a solvent for the medicinal properties of the herb and provides a healing, emollient base. The beeswax also adds a soothing, protective quality and provides the firmness necessary to form the salve. Some people recommend adding natural preservatives to the mixture, such as vitamin E or tincture of benzoin, but I've never found it necessary or any more effective.

Step 1. Prepare an infused oil following hte instructions above. Strain.

Step 2. To each cup of herbal oil. add 1/4 cup of beeswax. Heat until the beeswax is completely melted. To check for consistency, place 1 tablespoon of the mixture in the freezer for just a minute or two. If it's too soft, add more beeswax; if too hard, add more oil.

Step 3. Remove from heat immediately and pour into small glass jars or tins. Store any extra salve in a cool, dark place. Stored properly, salves will last for months, even years."

 

 

That article did not mention a lot of things. For example: the feet are the second fastest area of the body to absorb oils due to the large pores. Other quick absorbing areas are behind the ears and on the wrists.

 

In the Modern Essentials book it mentions to layer the different terpene extracts vs. mixing them. You can layer them over each other within seconds because the skin absorbs them quickly. Terpenes easily penetrates skin. The layering technique is not only useful for physical healing, but also in emotional clearing, especially when using other terpene extracts. 

 

Just a couple of examples from the books.

 

With some of the essential oils, just applying anywhere on the body, you also inhale the "fumes" which in turn would be considered aroma therapy.

 

Cannabis is capable of providing the same aroma therapy if done properly.

 

I don't think that article was meant to be a tutorial, or, all encompassing. It's just a brief rundown of some of the research and findings.

 

In my research i've found that some of the claims made have no backing in science. For instance, many people claim Essential Oils are good for things like anti-aging face creams, when in fact nearly all essential oils, are bad for your skin. They cause contact dermatitis and many other problems as well. Even the mild ones like Lavender.

Lab tests show much differently then "Essential Oil experts" claim, and depending on sensitivity, its pretty clear to see when you test it on your skin.

 

However, essential oils do have great benefits such as anti-inflammatory properties and you need to weigh out the pros and cons of using them on skin. I use them in my pain salve and they are without a doubt beneficial.

Things like Vitamin E help to counteract the issues brought on by irritants like essential oils.

 

 

I haven't read anything on terpenes but you have stoked my interest and really need to check that out.

It sounds like you have done a lot of research on topical's. I would love to hear your findings and what you've been using for things like penetration enhancers, etc.

 

Also, Im not sure what you mean when you mentioned high absorption areas like feet,etc.  I'm not trying to sound stupid but if i had back pain, would putting it on my foot help?

I've been applying it directly to injury sites and having the best results but ive never tried a more systemic approach.

 

Thanks!

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I am against most modern treatments. I like to look for safer alternatives and potentially far more effective.

 

Here is the real story on Steve Jobs. He fought his cancer for 20 years utilizing alternative treatments and diet. The article is worth the read.

http://draxe.com/steve-jobs-twenty-year-battle-with-pancreatic-cancer/#

 

In the book Rosebary Gladstar's Herbal Recipes for Vibrant Health, it offers 175 teas, tonics, oils, salves, tinctures, and other natural remedies for the entire family.

 

For my personal use, I usually like to add some concentrated cannabis oil into the recipes. Sometimes I will also add in additional essential oils.

 

Here is a basic example of a slave recipe. It is mentioned to be for Athletes Foot, but is also good for dry cracked skin;

 

 

Myrrh and Goldenseal are potential irritants. It might be better if they left those out.

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I am against most modern treatments. I like to look for safer alternatives and potentially far more effective.

 

Here is the real story on Steve Jobs. He fought his cancer for 20 years utilizing alternative treatments and diet. The article is worth the read.

http://draxe.com/steve-jobs-twenty-year-battle-with-pancreatic-cancer/#

 

 

Interesting story on Jobs. Thanks!

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Myrrh and Goldenseal are potential irritants. It might be better if they left those out.

 

Actually myrrh and goldenseal are great essential oils and herbs to apply topically. They are not meant to be directly applied to the skin because they can cause irritation and burning. They are only meant to be used with carrier oils with a specific dilution rate. A good carrier oil is fractionated coconut oil. The ratio could be 5:1, 10:1, etc. depending upon the essential oil used or herb used.

 

Of course, anyone could have an adverse reaction to any plant oil. It is best to do a small sample test before a large area application.

 

One of my patients is allergic to my strawberry cough strain, she can't even touch it or she will break out in hives. She is not allergic to any other strain that I have. I attribute the reaction to the different terpenes in the SBC strain. Just my best guess.

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I don't think that article was meant to be a tutorial, or, all encompassing. It's just a brief rundown of some of the research and findings.

 

In my research i've found that some of the claims made have no backing in science. For instance, many people claim Essential Oils are good for things like anti-aging face creams, when in fact nearly all essential oils, are bad for your skin. They cause contact dermatitis and many other problems as well. Even the mild ones like Lavender.

Lab tests show much differently then "Essential Oil experts" claim, and depending on sensitivity, its pretty clear to see when you test it on your skin.

 

However, essential oils do have great benefits such as anti-inflammatory properties and you need to weigh out the pros and cons of using them on skin. I use them in my pain salve and they are without a doubt beneficial.

Things like Vitamin E help to counteract the issues brought on by irritants like essential oils.

 

 

I haven't read anything on terpenes but you have stoked my interest and really need to check that out.

It sounds like you have done a lot of research on topical's. I would love to hear your findings and what you've been using for things like penetration enhancers, etc.

 

Also, Im not sure what you mean when you mentioned high absorption areas like feet,etc.  I'm not trying to sound stupid but if i had back pain, would putting it on my foot help?

I've been applying it directly to injury sites and having the best results but ive never tried a more systemic approach.

 

Thanks!

 

Contrary to popular belief, essential oils are not bad for the skin. It is the percentage of the oil that is used where problems can arise. For skin applications, essential oils need to be diluted with a carrier oil such as fractionated coconut oil, almond oil, and many more. I have used many different essential oils on my skin and have not had any problems. I did follow the directions. Many feel more is better and with essential oils, that is not true. Less is more.... Most of the anti-aging creams on the market are not using natural essential oils, they are using synthetic forms which will only replicate the aroma and nothing else. The purpose of using the essential oils in face creams for instance is more for aromatherapy. You would have to make sure the product had real, organic essential oils of high quality. Not all essential oils are of the same quality and not all are made to the same standards.

 

As for absorption through the feet, I think you may have took that wrong. I was more referring to what was mentioned in the article about penetrating the skin. It depends on what part of the body. I was just pointing out that THC could potentially be absorbed through the feet better. The point is to get it into the bloodstream. However, it is possible to apply oils around the ear, hands, or feet and have different reactions across the body. That would be referred to as the reflex points. Potentially you could apply certain oils on a certain place on the hand and it could effect a particular point on the foot. It is explained in great detail in the book Modern Essentials, Sixth Edition.

 

As far as penetration enhancers, that has to be taken very carefully. I would not want to give out any bad advice. There is a certain citrus product, but it can be dangerous if taking other medications. Mixing it with something as simple as ibuprofen can cause death in some cases. One of the chemicals I will use is propylene glycol USP. It is used commonly in modern medicines like for inhalers, to aid the medicine to penetrate the lung tissue to get it to the bloodstream more effectively. As for me, I have found that fractionated coconut oil is a penetration enhancer for topical applications. The essential oils mix well with the coconut oil. When it comes to cannabis, I prefer organic alcohol extracts, I believe that helps penetration too and blends well with the fractionated coconut oil for topical use. I also believe if you can preserve the cannabis terpenes, they also aid in penetration and have more medicinal effects.

 

I have done some research on topicals, really, I am still a beginner. My goal is to one day become a master herbalist.

 

I am not saying that the essential oil and herbal methods will work for everyone, but I do feel that seeking a natural route before modern medicine is best in my opinion.

 

Essential oils are pure terpene extracts from plants. It is on my To-Do list to do a pure terpene extract from cannabis. it will not have THC or CBDs, only terpenes. The terpenes in cannabis are amazing, but very delicate. I discuss it in one of my blogs, I call it ND Sap.

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As far as topicals and salves go, use emu oil. It increases absorption in the skin barrier plus has its own healing properties.

 

 Hippies been using it with cannabis extracts for along time.  It is a aboriginal thing.  Then ya don't need to add all the extra crap. :-)

 

 For those interested. 

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As far as topicals and salves go, use emu oil. It increases absorption in the skin barrier plus has its own healing properties.

 

 Hippies been using it with cannabis extracts for along time.  It is a aboriginal thing.  Then ya don't need to add all the extra crap. :-)

 

 For those interested.

 

I was just about to suggest emu oil. I don't know a lot about it, but I've read that emu oil is a very good carrier to allow dissolved products (MJ oil) to be absorbed through the skin. But emu oil isn't cheap. I think I paid about $20 for about a 4-oz bottle. I mixed 9 parts emu oil with one part cannabis oil and gave it to two patients - one with RA and one with shingles. Both patients reported positive results.

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Does anyone know how the topical salves work? I really didn't think the mechanism was there for them to work. But seems Ive been wrong.

for deep joint pain, the salve i bought did not work for me. but the salve did work for my inflammation, itches/rashes , irregular skin growths/bumps/pimples/boils, abcesses (ingrown toenails), warts, etc.

 

It bugs me not to really have the answer to how the salves work topically to relieve pain [no CNS involvement with topical] with inflammation  I can at least see a possible way for the cannabis to work. But I am not clear on what the  properties are that could be reducing the inflammation.

 

Google wasn't much help and trying to dig through all the crap sales ads is annoying. I was hoping someone here might save me a headache in further searching

ok, you want to know how , at a cellular level, topical application of cannabis oil works?

 

its a bit like how it works when you ingest cannabis, although the levels of absorption are lower and i think its more locally focused (e.g. you rub it on your elbow and it mostly stays on your elbow and does not circulate around to your entire body).

 

 

what this means is that , lets say when you smoke marijuana, the thc goes into the lungs, travels into the blood, hits the blood brain barrier, and then goes into the brain. but the thc also goes into every other cell it can get into!

 

so basically, you should just look up how cannabinoids affect cells once inside the body. because a topical application is not much different than ingesting it.

 

what i'm trying to say is that your approach is wrong. marijuana's effect on the body at a cellular level has nothing to do with the effect on the brain.

 

 

 

Absorption of Cannabis Through the Skin. According to The Healing Magic of Cannabis, cannabis in a

compress, salve or tincture is absorbed locally when applied directly to the skin, but noted that there is

debate about whether it can reach the central nervous system (CNS).(7) This is why topical applications

have no psychoactive effect (despite the claims by some that they do).

A 1987 study from Israel investigated the skin permeation behavior of a tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in

both rat and human skin in vitro.(8) The researchers found rat skin much more permeable than human

skin. They also found that “24 hours after application the drug was concentrated in the stratum

corneum, in the upper epidermis, and around the hair follicles…” In other words, it doesn’t penetrate

very deep. However, using a permeation enhancer (oleic acid) on the rat skin only, they found a

sustained concentration in the blood for about 24 hours. This study still leaves open the question of

whether topically applying THC to human skin can deliver it to the bloodstream.

http://www.compassioncenter.net/topical-cannabis-preparations/

 

 

ok, maybe i misunderstood your question, you want to know what the anti inflammatory effects of cannabis are?

 

try this one on

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2828614/

 

although i think they make quite a few leaps and i would avoid any guesses about immunosupression.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25529540

 

http://www.ethlife.ethz.ch/archive_articles/080627_Hanf_Paper/index_EN

 

if you want more, try typing this into google anti inflammatory cannabis site:nih.gov

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I will try to answer your question. 

 

There are many variables to consider. Basically the CBDs, at least 66 known, of course the terpenes, 144 known, can potentially absorb through the skin and reduce inflammation, especially the terpenes.

 

The method of making the salve and quality of the product will also have a lot to do with its effectiveness and ability to absorb and provide relief.

 

If you are interested in topicals, I highly recommend the book Modern Essentials, Sixth Edition. It has taught me things I have not read on any marijuana fourm. For instance, they discuss different carrier oils such as fractionated coconut oil and almond oil, using other terpene extracts (essential oils) for different purposes. It just may be a good investment for you.

Thanks a million I will   get that book :D

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for deep joint pain, the salve i bought did not work for me. but the salve did work for my inflammation, itches/rashes , irregular skin growths/bumps/pimples/boils, abcesses (ingrown toenails), warts, etc.

 

 

ok, you want to know how , at a cellular level, topical application of cannabis oil works?

 

its a bit like how it works when you ingest cannabis, although the levels of absorption are lower and i think its more locally focused (e.g. you rub it on your elbow and it mostly stays on your elbow and does not circulate around to your entire body).

 

 

what this means is that , lets say when you smoke marijuana, the thc goes into the lungs, travels into the blood, hits the blood brain barrier, and then goes into the brain. but the thc also goes into every other cell it can get into!

 

so basically, you should just look up how cannabinoids affect cells once inside the body. because a topical application is not much different than ingesting it.

 

what i'm trying to say is that your approach is wrong. marijuana's effect on the body at a cellular level has nothing to do with the effect on the brain.

 

 

 

http://www.compassioncenter.net/topical-cannabis-preparations/

 

 

ok, maybe i misunderstood your question, you want to know what the anti inflammatory effects of cannabis are?

 

try this one on

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2828614/

 

although i think they make quite a few leaps and i would avoid any guesses about immunosupression.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25529540

 

http://www.ethlife.ethz.ch/archive_articles/080627_Hanf_Paper/index_EN

 

if you want more, try typing this into google anti inflammatory cannabis site:nih.gov

Thanks :)

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Been lurking on these forums for a while (came across the site while fighting the bogus transport law in court), finally decided to register so I could share some knowledge on this subject.

 

Inflammation is a process controlled by the immune system, or white blood cells. These cells have a high density of CB2 receptors that are activated by… cannabinoids (along with natural analogs). Now, there are several pathways that cannabinoids suppress inflammation, so I’ll only discuss one of these. The first and foremost is a switch from Th1 response (pro-inflammatory) to a Th2 response (anti-inflammatory). What cannabinoids do is to counteract the Th1 state and push your immune system towards a balanced Th1/Th2. More specifically, this has to do with the cytokines released by your immune cells. Many people think that medical cannabis users are just getting high to mask their pain/problems, this couldn't be further from the truth (especially when topicals don't get you high!).

 

I’ll just add some of the research I’ve accumulated, as the actual biological pathways are too complex to discuss here. The 3rd reference specifically addresses transdermal delivery, but they all discuss the anti-inflammatory effects of cannabinoids.

 

Resources:

[1] Immunoactive Cannabinoids: Therapeutic Prospects for Marijuana Constituents.

[2] The nonpsychoactive cannabis constituent cannabidiol is an oral anti-arthritic therapeutic in murine collagen-induced arthritis.

[3] Cannabidiol-transdermal delivery and anti-inflammatory effect in a murine model.

[4] A novel synthetic, nonpsychoactive cannabinoid acid (HU-320) with anti-inflammatory properties in murine collage-induced arthritis.

[5] Ajulemic acid (IP-751): Synthesis, proof of principle, toxicity studies, and clinical trials.

[6] Cannabinoids and the immune system: Potential for the treatment of inflammatory diseases?

[7] Cannabinoid receptor CB2 modulates the CXCL12/CXCR4-mediated chemotaxis of T lymphocytes.
[8] Arthritis and cannabinoids: HU-210 and Win-55,212-2 prevent IL-1 alpha-induced matrix degradation in bovine articular chondrocytes in-vitro.

[9] The cannabinergic system as a target for anti-inflammatory therapies.

[10] Suppression of fibroblast metalloproteinases by ajulemic acid, a nonpsychoactive cannabinoid acid.

[11] Characterization of the cannabinoid receptor system in synovial tissue and fluid in patients with osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis.

[12] Suppression of human macrophage interleukin-6 by a nonpsychoactive cannabinoid acid.

[13] Ajulemic acid, a synthetic cannabinoid acid, induces an anti-inflammatory profile of eicosanoids in human synovial cells.

[14] Ajulemic acid, a nonpsychoactive cannabinoid acid, suppresses osteoclastogenesis in mononuclear precursor cells and induces apoptosis in mature osteoclast-like cells.

[15] Cannabinoid CB2 receptors in the gastrointestinal tract: a regulatory system in states of inflammation.

[16] Cannabinoids as novel anti-inflammatory drugs.

[17] Cannabinoid-induced apoptosis in immune cells as a pathway to immunosuppression.

[18] Cannabinoid receptor activation leads to massive mobilization of myeloid-derived suppressor cells with potent immunosuppressive properties.

[19] Cannabinoids for treatment of chronic non-cancer pain; a systematic review of randomized trials.

[20] Is lipid signaling through cannabinoid 2 receptors part of a protective system?

[21] Cannabidiol as an emergent therapeutic strategy for lessening the impact of inflammation on oxidative stress.

[22] Cannabinoids: novel therapies for arthritis?

[23] Role of CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors in the development of joint pain induced by monosodium iodoacetate.

[24] Cannabinoids decrease the th17 inflammatory autoimmune phenotype.

[25] Clue to role of cannabinoid receptors in RA.

[26] Expression of cannabinoid receptor 2 and its inhibitory effects on synovial fibroblasts in rheumatoid arthritis.

Edited by Alphabob
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