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Topical Salve - Im Now A Believer But Have Questions


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No problem. Yea, from what I’ve read it seems the effects can vary between different tissues, but for immune cells it appears to:

 

Decreases: TNF-α, GM-CSF, IFN-γ, IL-6, IL-12, IL-15, IL-17, IL-23 and COX-1/2

Increases: anti-inflammatory IL-8, IL-10

 

These are some of the same cytokines and other factors that are targeted by pharmaceutical drugs such as Tocilizumab (IL-6), Etanercept (TNF-α) or NSAIDs (COX-1/2).

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Actually myrrh and goldenseal are great essential oils and herbs to apply topically. They are not meant to be directly applied to the skin because they can cause irritation and burning. They are only meant to be used with carrier oils with a specific dilution rate. A good carrier oil is fractionated coconut oil. The ratio could be 5:1, 10:1, etc. depending upon the essential oil used or herb used.

 

 

Contrary to popular belief, essential oils are not bad for the skin. It is the percentage of the oil that is used where problems can arise. For skin applications, essential oils need to be diluted with a carrier oil such as fractionated coconut oil, almond oil, and many more. I have used many different essential oils on my skin and have not had any problems. I did follow the directions. Many feel more is better and with essential oils, that is not true. Less is more.... Most of the anti-aging creams on the market are not using natural essential oils, they are using synthetic forms which will only replicate the aroma and nothing else. The purpose of using the essential oils in face creams for instance is more for aromatherapy. You would have to make sure the product had real, organic essential oils of high quality. Not all essential oils are of the same quality and not all are made to the same standards.

 

As far as penetration enhancers, that has to be taken very carefully. I would not want to give out any bad advice. There is a certain citrus product, but it can be dangerous if taking other medications. Mixing it with something as simple as ibuprofen can cause death in some cases. One of the chemicals I will use is propylene glycol USP. It is used commonly in modern medicines like for inhalers, to aid the medicine to penetrate the lung tissue to get it to the bloodstream more effectively. As for me, I have found that fractionated coconut oil is a penetration enhancer for topical applications. The essential oils mix well with the coconut oil. When it comes to cannabis, I prefer organic alcohol extracts, I believe that helps penetration too and blends well with the fractionated coconut oil for topical use. I also believe if you can preserve the cannabis terpenes, they also aid in penetration and have more medicinal effects.

 

 

 

I'm certainly not a Chemist but I think you have it backwards. Popular opinion says that Essential oils are good for the skin. Scientific opinion says they are bad for your skin.

 

 

 

See this....

 

lavender extract and oil
Rating: Poor Categories: Fragrance: Synthetic and Fragrant Plant Extracts , Plant Extracts , Irritants

Widely used plant that’s a member of the mint family. May be listed by its Latin names Lavandula angustifolia or Lavandula officinalis. Primarily a fragrance ingredient, although it may have antibacterial properties. In-vitro research indicates that components of lavender, specifically linalool and linalyl acetate, can be cytotoxic, which means that topical application of as little a concentration as 0.25% causes cell death. [1] This study was conducted on endothelial cells, which are cells that line blood pathways in the body and play a critical role in the inflammatory process of skin.

As linalool and linalyl acetate are both rapidly absorbed by skin and can be detected within blood cells in less than 20 minutes, endothelial cells are an ideal choice for such a test. [2] The results of this research also demonstrated that lavender has a damaging effect on fibroblasts, which are cells that produce collagen.

The fragrance constituents in lavender oil, linalool and linalyl acetate, oxidize when exposed to air, and in this process their potential for causing an allergic reaction is increased. [3] If you’re wondering why lavender oil doesn’t appear to be problematic for you, it’s because research has demonstrated that you don’t always need to see it or feel it happening for your skin to suffer damage. [4]

References Cited:

  1. Prashar A, Locke I, Evans C. Cytotoxicity of lavender oil and its major components to human skin cells. Cell Prolif. 2004;37(3):221-9.
  2. Jager W, Buchbauer G, Jirovetz L, Fritzer M. Percutaneous absorption of lavender oil from a massage oil. J Cosmet Sci.. 1992;43(1):49-57.
  3. Hagvall L, Sköld M, Bråred-Christensson J, Börje A, Karlberg A. Lavender oil lacks natural protection against autoxidation, forming strong contact allergens on air exposure. Contact Dermatitis. 2008;59(3):143-50.
  4. Basketter D, Darlenski R, Fluhr J. Skin irritation and sensitization: mechanisms and new approaches for risk assessment. Skin Pharmacol Physiol. 2008.;21(4):191-202.

 

 

 

If one gets information form books selling or promoting the use of Essential Oils then you can expect to get a one sided approach. I prefer to use both science and old world remedies that actually work.

 

Goldenseal, when taken orally has great benefits but there is absolutely zero evidence that shows it does the same when applied to skin. Myrrh has very little evidence that shows it helps skin.

 

I can dilute gasoline enough that i don't feel or see the problems it causes my skin but it still causes problems. Why would I want to put an irritant on skin regardless of how much its diluted?

 

Remember, as the scientists say. Just because you don't see it or feel it, doesn't mean its not causing cell death.

The risks outweigh the possible benefits.

 

 

The reason some Cosmetic companies keep Essential Oils and other fragrance out of cosmetics is because they have ethics. If essential oils actually worked for skin care they would be putting them in all the products. Just notice that any good lotion for sensitive skin will not have any fragrance in it. Essential oils = fragrance=irritant.

Companies that only care about making money put things that smell nice in the products to attract people that don't know better. Its dangerous for people with sensitive skin but they just don't care. Buyer beware i guess.

Its unbelievable what some companies charge for products that are worse for you then some of the less expensive options but some people see "Essential Oil's", or "All natural" and think that means its good for you. For instance, many people recommend using Borax(all Natural) as an emulsifier for making lotions. But, borax has a PH so high that its bad for skin. it's "all natural" but it doesn't help your skin at all.

 

I make my own face creams and lotions and after looking at the skin I was treating and then the scientific evidence, i would never knowingly put any irritant in them again. Every single person that had sensitive skin and tried mine and other products that contained E-oils had bad reactions to them. I  bought the best oils i could find, tried changing the dilution, and used only e-oils that were recommended for sensitive skin but it didn't matter. Once I took the e oils out of the product, all the problems went away.

 

When considering irritants like essential oils, it does not matter the quality of the oil. The higher grade oils are still irritants by nature and quality does not change that.

It's dangerous.

 

GG, please know that I'm not angry or upset with you and I'm not intending to call you out to start a fight. i just feel the evidence shows the dangers of these oils as skin care and people should be made aware.

Also, I would love to find im wrong about this so if you have any links to scientific studies showing E-oils are good for skin care I would be happy to see them. You've made some claims that need scientific sources to back them up....do you have any?

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Also, I would love to find im wrong about this so if you have any links to scientific studies showing E-oils are good for skin care I would be happy to see them. You've made some claims that need scientific sources to back them up....do you have any?

 

No offense taken. Many people do have sensitive skin, I do not deny that. Many have sensitive sinuses too, my father is one of them. He is so sensitive to fragrances, my mother can't even use baby lotion.

 

Here is one. http://roberttisserand.com/2011/08/lavender-oil-skin-savior-or-skin-irritant/ Pretty much debunks the information you provided.  Scientific studies are cited throughout the article.  I can provide more if you do so desire.

 

The books I posses are school books not just random books I picked up at some holistic shop.

 

I can guarantee you this, whatever terpenes in the 144 count in cannabis, they are unbelievably great for burns, wounds, infections, inflammation, arthritis, etc. This is from hands on experience. When it comes to cannabis terpenes, anyone that denies must not have had quality product. Similarly with other essential oils. Clove extract, properly diluted, as recommend in the book, works great for toothaches. Better than any pill or anything I could purchase at the pharmacy. It also carries medicinal properties.

 

just saying....

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allergic reaction is increased. [3] If you’re wondering why lavender oil doesn’t appear to be problematic for you, it’s because research has demonstrated that you don’t always need to see it or feel it happening for your skin to suffer damage. [4]

References Cited:

  • Prashar A, Locke I, Evans C. Cytotoxicity of lavender oil and its major components to human skin cells. Cell Prolif. 2004;37(3):221-9.
  • Jager W, Buchbauer G, Jirovetz L, Fritzer M. Percutaneous absorption of lavender oil from a massage oil. J Cosmet Sci.. 1992;43(1):49-57.
  • Hagvall L, Sköld M, Bråred-Christensson J, Börje A, Karlberg A. Lavender oil lacks natural protection against autoxidation, forming strong contact allergens on air exposure. Contact Dermatitis. 2008;59(3):143-50.
  • Basketter D, Darlenski R, Fluhr J. Skin irritation and sensitization: mechanisms and new approaches for risk assessment. Skin Pharmacol Physiol. 2008.;21(4):191-202.

your references/links do not show damage to skin though.

 

people could very well be allergic to plant oils of course. i do not discount this. essential oils are very volatile and powerful.

 

1st study is an in vitro study. aka skin cells in a petri dish.

 

the problem with vitro studies is that the methodology can often be just plain bad. you put some cells in a dish and then add XXX substance and the cells die. well sure but that does not mean oil kills living cells in your skin. it could be that the cells cannot live in the volatile oil environment. but since your skin cells live in your skin with blood flowing, this is not easily comparable.

 

i'm not discounting the research ,i have nothing to show any opposite theory. but i always prefer in vivo studies to in vitro. to try to explain my point, alcohol kills skin cells (and just about everything else) in petri dishes i think we can agree? but rubbing alcohol on your skin ... you'll be ok.

 

the second study says people use lavender oil in massage oils. so if its killing your skin while getting a massage... you'd think the massage goer would feel some burning. or notice some redness, or other symptom of cell death like peeling skin ,rash, itching...

 

2nd one is just a study on how lavender oil gets absorbed into the bloodstream via skin. nothing about dangers or damage.

 

3rd one i cant find the full text either. looks like people can be allergic to lavender? i fully agree people have allergies to everything.

 

4th study does not mention lavender oil at all and is kind of a review of skin irritation testing methods.

full text: https://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/135635

 

 

i'm not here to scold you. but i am here to let you know that i have seen this before, where a newspaper or reporter will make some headline like 'lavender oil will damage your skin' , but then you go and read the actual research study and there is no conclusion at all that can be drawn from the results.

 

but i always go a reading.

 

so i type this into google: lavender site:nih.gov

 

here are some interesting results:

 

https://nccih.nih.gov/health/lavender/ataglance.htm

 

heres a rat (in vivo )study that says lavender works for diabetes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3880178/

 

would i eat it? hell no! it tastes like donkey and smell is way too strong. i bought some to use as a perfume but way way way too strong, the scent lasts for HOURS at full "volume".

 

another rat study where they tested the anti inflammatory uses of the oil

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26247152

 

i dunno man. i dont work here i just bumble about.

 

i agree with you that fragrances in soaps and fabric softener and detergent are horrible and this causes a lot of skin irritation with people. i have a family member who has terrible hives and rashes if she uses any kind of clothes detergent with fragrance (downy, tide etc). she had to look high and low and finally special order some fragrance-free stuff before she found any relief.

 

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Allergy/Tide-Skin-Hives---Why/show/211332

 

good luck out there. i dont have any answers , only dumb research studies.

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water, water kills skin cells. hot water also kills skin cells.

 

ever wash dishes or take a long bath and your skin gets wrinkly and red and painful? you have killed skin cells. water got into the cell and burst the cell.

 

the question is does this oil kill skin cells at a higher or lower rate than water. i'd guess probably higher, except that i dont think anyone is rubbing pure lavender oil on their skin for hours at a time. or if they did they would notice the same redness as the long-water exposure?

 

again, i have no idea, this is just like my opinion.

 

am i worried about lavender oil in a balm/salve? not really.

 

heres a thought for you... they test some of these things one by one in rats, right? well what happens if you eat some combination of things that causes an ill effect? like MSG, grapefruit and aspirin. what if that gives you cancer? no one is ever going to test every combination of every drug , food additive, food coloring and fruit. but adverse interactions occur all the time. oh noooo! ehe

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Isn't killing and sloughing off skin cells PART of taking care or beautifying the skin?  What's a chemical peel and wouldn't it be better if it was a essential oil peel? :)  Not really my area but there is also an idea of concentration.  I know a lot of people use tiger balm for sore muscles and there is camphor and cinnamon and some heavyweight essential oils in that.  I do have allergies to soaps and have to use hypoallerganic clothes detergent but tiger balm or vics or those other rubs seem to do no damage to me.  Perfumes in detergents rubbing against my skin, different story.

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Back on track; The great news is that pure cannabis oil doesn't bother the skin at all. 

Ya, but it's really sticky and doesn't penetrate well, works better with addatives.  And there are people out there with allergies to everything, including cannabis.  My next door neighbor is one, she became allergic and she was a casual to heavy smoker.  Not sure if it's systemic or would cause problems being applied to the skin but something to consider.

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Ya, but it's really sticky and doesn't penetrate well, works better with addatives.  And there are people out there with allergies to everything, including cannabis.  My next door neighbor is one, she became allergic and she was a casual to heavy smoker.  Not sure if it's systemic or would cause problems being applied to the skin but something to consider.

Became allergic to cannabis? Hmm. That's a hard one to confirm. What was your process to determine this?

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She told me she started throwing up and couldn't breathe whenever she smoked.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/marijuana-allergies-a-growing-problem-study-says/

 

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-wellness/articles/2015/03/23/can-you-be-allergic-to-marijuana

 

Google is your friend.  Looks like just opeing the salve could be bad for some people, shame.

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She told me she started throwing up and couldn't breathe whenever she smoked.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/marijuana-allergies-a-growing-problem-study-says/

 

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-wellness/articles/2015/03/23/can-you-be-allergic-to-marijuana

 

Google is your friend.  Looks like just opeing the salve could be bad for some people, shame.

That all looks like bad information really. Never seen anything like that myself. Don't believe everything you google. 

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people can be allergic to cannabis. why you no think so resto?

Oh sure they can. There are ways to confirm it. If you don't confirm it correctly it's just bad info. I believe it's pretty rare. Never seen it myself. Or even heard of it from someone first hand. Everyone is different and you are bound to find all types. Always have your disclaimer ready. But it's really rare ..... especially from a product like oil.

Edited by Restorium2
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No offense taken. Many people do have sensitive skin, I do not deny that. Many have sensitive sinuses too, my father is one of them. He is so sensitive to fragrances, my mother can't even use baby lotion.

 

Here is one. http://roberttisserand.com/2011/08/lavender-oil-skin-savior-or-skin-irritant/ Pretty much debunks the information you provided.  Scientific studies are cited throughout the article.  I can provide more if you do so desire.

 

The books I posses are school books not just random books I picked up at some holistic shop.

 

I can guarantee you this, whatever terpenes in the 144 count in cannabis, they are unbelievably great for burns, wounds, infections, inflammation, arthritis, etc. This is from hands on experience. When it comes to cannabis terpenes, anyone that denies must not have had quality product. Similarly with other essential oils. Clove extract, properly diluted, as recommend in the book, works great for toothaches. Better than any pill or anything I could purchase at the pharmacy. It also carries medicinal properties.

 

just saying....

GG,

 

did you know there is a company that adds the essential oil dlimonene to their cannabis oil for vaporization?

(Ingredients: PureGold cannabinoid oil, 5% Limonene, gelatin )

 

Its a powerful solvent/terpene/essential oil/fda approved flavor additive. It's an important part of organic IPM techniques, candy flavor, industrial cleaner additive, etc. I was intrigued by the information available concerning the human organ interactions and tried this myself. I'm able to use the terpene to facilitate a cannabis extraction using no other solvent. I can also remove most of the solvent in an enclosed unit using 100f heat(except for about 5% oddly)

Unfortunately I enjoy the taste of pure cannabis more than lemon flavored, but the whole blood/brain barrier thing is spot on with this one... I suspect lots of enjoyment out there. No idea but I bet its already in the prefilled nico tanks too.   have you any experience with dlimonene?

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GG,

 

did you know there is a company that adds the essential oil dlimonene to their cannabis oil for vaporization?

(Ingredients: PureGold cannabinoid oil, 5% Limonene, gelatin )

 

Its a powerful solvent/terpene/essential oil/fda approved flavor additive. It's an important part of organic IPM techniques, candy flavor, industrial cleaner additive, etc. I was intrigued by the information available concerning the human organ interactions and tried this myself. I'm able to use the terpene to facilitate a cannabis extraction using no other solvent. I can also remove most of the solvent in an enclosed unit using 100f heat(except for about 5% oddly)

Unfortunately I enjoy the taste of pure cannabis more than lemon flavored, but the whole blood/brain barrier thing is spot on with this one... I suspect lots of enjoyment out there. No idea but I bet its already in the prefilled nico tanks too.   have you any experience with dlimonene?

 The neutral cannabinoids are all small molecules that are highly lipophilic and cross the blood-brain barrier.  The acid forms are also lipophilic and presumably would also cross the blood-brain barrier. But to my knowledge, no one has radio-labelled them to find out.

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I understand the limonene facilitates this well, perhaps more than 20% of cannabis contains limonene naturally. problem I have with using it specifically is the high  boiling point and the flavor added. It takes forever for me to "evaporate" at lower temps, and the higher temp of 350 ruins the extract expectations for me. I ditched it long ago but because of the company adding it GG might be familiar.

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I understand the limonene facilitates this well, perhaps more than 20% of cannabis contains limonene naturally. problem I have with using it specifically is the high  boiling point and the flavor added. It takes forever for me to "evaporate" at lower temps, and the higher temp of 350 ruins the extract expectations for me. I ditched it long ago but because of the company adding it GG might be familiar.

Why add anything when cannabinoids already cross the blood brain barrier all on their own? In other words, why mess with a good thing?

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Not sure why PG does it. maybe to change viscosity for easier vaping in portables. Nicotine users make use of PEG in their mix for similar reasons I think.

 their webby describes the technique and reasoning behind it probably.

I know patients who add sugar, foods, butter, brownie mixes and more just to get the experience of it, instead of eating dinner and a drop of oil.

 AHigh Times Advertiser pays over 7500$ monthly to showcase his flavor drops, a popular seller.   Smoke shops sell lots of flavored papers for more examples. Some  add tobacco to their cannabis for smoking pleasure too.   I don't enjoy these flavorings as stated many times but some people do.

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Not sure why PG does it. maybe to change viscosity for easier vaping in portables. Nicotine users make use of PEG in their mix for similar reasons I think.

 their webby describes the technique and reasoning behind it probably.

I know patients who add sugar, foods, butter, brownie mixes and more just to get the experience of it, instead of eating dinner and a drop of oil.

 AHigh Times Advertiser pays over 7500$ monthly to showcase his flavor drops, a popular seller.   Smoke shops sell lots of flavored papers for more examples. Some  add tobacco to their cannabis for smoking pleasure too.   I don't enjoy these flavorings as stated many times but some people do.

I thought we were talking about topical? Topical salves, how they work, and how to make them penetrate better?

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If you look at how the expensive designer drugs work you will see that cannabis does the same thing in the same way. 

Advair for asthma, cannabis does the same thing. Entercepts for arthritis, cannabis does the same thing. They have been mimicking what cannabis does for a long time whether they know it or not. Look to the artificial drugs they have invented to see how they work to learn about how cannabis works with your body. 

I do find vaping mm to help my asthma, but advair does work better for me, Im not sure about the side effects but one dose of advair or symbicort and im good for the whole day,

 

one thing people do need to remember that all meds dont work the same for all people, that does include mm, although I do beleive mm used correctly is the safest as far as side effects, I would think I would see some very adverse side effects of mmj by now, I have been using it for over 40 yrs now, and the last 20 yrs has mostly been grown in MI or canada that I have used!

 

The only topical I have used is from a member in here, and I did find it to work on some people and not others!

 

Peace

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Actually myrrh and goldenseal are great essential oils and herbs to apply topically. They are not meant to be directly applied to the skin because they can cause irritation and burning. They are only meant to be used with carrier oils with a specific dilution rate. A good carrier oil is fractionated coconut oil. The ratio could be 5:1, 10:1, etc. depending upon the essential oil used or herb used.

 

Of course, anyone could have an adverse reaction to any plant oil. It is best to do a small sample test before a large area application.

 

One of my patients is allergic to my strawberry cough strain, she can't even touch it or she will break out in hives. She is not allergic to any other strain that I have. I attribute the reaction to the different terpenes in the SBC strain. Just my best guess.

I used to use golden seal root to help hide my mj use when I had to be urine screened!  How does that work?  I was always thinking it blocked or help get rid of all of the compounds in mmj.

 

Peace

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Why add anything when cannabinoids already cross the blood brain barrier all on their own? In other words, why mess with a good thing?

i think he was talking about substituting the alcohol solvent for a terpene solvent.

 

although where you get dilemonine from and how safe is it vs alcohol is another question.

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