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Advice Please! Card Holder


elkhunter

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(snip)

 

When asked If you were an mm card holder, I would have said why?  I know personaly I would not have said yes unless they already found my stash!  some thing tells me you have been pulled over before and had an mj related incident, they do not know you are a card holder unless you telll them (at least that is how the law is supposed to work), was your dry in a jar and no way could have been smelled when he walked upto your truck?

 

(snip)

 

"All information received at the MMP is protected under the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act Initiated Law 1 of 2008 and Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPPA) and cannot be released without a court order or release from the patient and caregiver."
 
So this is protected information and a cop has no right to even ask about it.
 
Of course, saying "why do want to know" or "none of your business" or however courteously you word the refusal is tantamount to an admission in the eyes of many officers. So is it better just to lie?
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"All information received at the MMP is protected under the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act Initiated Law 1 of 2008 and Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPPA) and cannot be released without a court order or release from the patient and caregiver."
 
So this is protected information and a cop has no right to even ask about it.
 
Of course, saying "why do want to know" or "none of your business" or however courteously you word the refusal is tantamount to an admission in the eyes of many officers. So is it better just to lie?

 

Yet, when you call LARA the message says "law enforcement press X"

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"All information received at the MMP is protected under the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act Initiated Law 1 of 2008 and Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPPA) and cannot be released without a court order or release from the patient and caregiver."
 
So this is protected information and a cop has no right to even ask about it.
 
Of course, saying "why do want to know" or "none of your business" or however courteously you word the refusal is tantamount to an admission in the eyes of many officers. So is it better just to lie?

 

 

Im gonna stick with not telling untill I have to!  or why does this have to do with why you pulled me over?  Once you are pulled over your kinda stuck untill they write you a speeding ticket or find another reason to mess with you like this idiot cop did! 

 

I would no doubt wait for them to bring the dogs and find it before I showed my card!  Most people crack any how so you may as well make them spend the time and money for what your fines will be, make em earn it especialy if you are within the law!

 

Peace

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it also says lawyers press X.

 

its possible lara does verification for leo with a patient number over the phone.

 

like for police who dont have access to lein. say a cop on a horse or bike.

 

once  you give the cop your card and I.D they can calll in and make sure it is a legal card!  That is why we have numbers on them!

 

Peace

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once  you give the cop your card and I.D they can calll in and make sure it is a legal card!  That is why we have numbers on them!

 

Peace

Right. When confronted with a card, I think most cops call their boss first, not LARA. Someone up the chain makes the call to LARA.

Edited by Restorium2
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Reading all of this just disgusts me. Yes, the State got their way, making all the people who need or use this as medicine sign up, pay them money and follow their rules. Rules they can and will change any time they want. They can go ahead and change the rules to our contract? That seems wrong to me. I send them a check with certain rules I agree to follow. They cash the check, accepting my money and issue me a card. Than they change the rules? How does this even come close to making sense?

 

Meanwhile, a huge number of people are going to doctors/pharmacies and getting pain pills that destroy their bodies and make junkies out of them. Are they registering with the state? Is anyone controlling their pain management or are they abusing these dangerous drugs? When it comes to drugs, what are people dying from? MMJ or opiates? Yes, opiates....but the pols are being paid off by the lobbyists from bid pharma. Money does all the talking, even if peoples lives are shattered or destroyed.

 

Do we know for sure our names show up on LEIN? They can just call our plates in and find out we're registered MMJ users? Well, good luck with that when my wife is driving my car.

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I haven't heard of any credible evidence that LEOs can find your MMJ status without calling LARA, although there is anecdotal evidence that would suggest that LEOs who do come across a carded person input that information into LEIN so if you encounter LEO again and they run your DL#, they know you're registered with LARA.

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I haven't heard of any credible evidence that LEOs can find your MMJ status without calling LARA, although there is anecdotal evidence that would suggest that LEOs who do come across a carded person input that information into LEIN so if you encounter LEO again and they run your DL#, they know you're registered with LARA.

 

would'nt that be ilegal to enter our pt info into lein?  only that officer knows he is not allowed to put it on our driving record, if they can we need to sue lara!

 

Peace

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Here's the story:

 

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2012/06/some_michigan_medical_marijuan.html

 

Under the procedure, Hoornstra said his officers report any interactions with individuals identified as medical marijuana patients to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, even if they are not committing a crime or violating the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act.  So far, about 10 medical marijuana users have been reported to the federal government by Flushing Police, Hoornstra said.

 

When you think about this in conjunction with the LEO position "we can't give meds back to patients because that's against federal law," you want to vomit.  LEOs hide behind not violating federal law but have no problem violating state law and disclosing confidential patient information.

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When the Flushing story came out in 2012, I wrote to then (D) state Senator John Gleason.  His district covers Flushing and my area.  I had met him before, twice actually.  Once, he pulled into a gas station in Montrose behind me because I had a "Kerry" bumper sticker.  We had a nice talk.  I also met him at a campaign fundraiser at a restaurant in Flushing and sat and talked with him for a while.  He seemed like a down-to-earth guy.  He comes from a blue collar background and was a big advocate for women's rights when he was in the state senate.

 

When I wrote to him, I was anticipating a positive response.  I asked him to look into the Flushing issue.  He sent me what was more or less a flippant response.  He has since left the senate on term limits, and his seat was won by his wife.   He then ran-for and won the Register of Deeds position in Genesee County.  Turns out, he's just a cog in the government machine now.  Hugely disappointing.

 

Speaking of Montrose, those local politicians are the kind we need in Lansing.  The City Council has been very pro MMJ.  The mayor (or former mayor) even testified at a legislative hearing in Lansing and talked about how he was a CG to his niece.  A friend of a friend of a friend of mine owns  the only dispensary in Montrose.  And while I'm generally not pro-dispensary I was pleased to hear that the city manager and the chief of police told the dispensary operator that they were in favor of a well-run dispensary business like his and that they would be informed prior to any raid by the county, state, or federal LEOs and that they'd let the guy know if something was about to happen so he could clean-house.  And while I'm generally not pro-dispensary, I'm very much for local government officials having control of what happens in their own territory.  If the city council, city manager, the mayor, and the chief of police are OK with a dispensary in their downtown, I support that principle of local control above and beyond the bigger picture.

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Yes. NICS access is in LEIN.

 

Thanks for your knowledge.  That's scary.  So anyone, from anywhere in Michigan can be driving through Flushing, get stopped by LEO for any reason, have the smell on MMJ in their vehicle, get searched, and end up marked with a big 'ol red X for life in LEOs databases. 

 

I happen to know caveat lector, who used to post here often.  A couple of years ago, he was driving a classic Suzuki Samurai he had shipped from Cali.  It was a nice, clean, little truck but wasn't designed for freeway driving and couldn't quite achieve 65 mph on the freeway.  He was stopped by MSP on I-69 outside of Lansing.  The officer asked, "Do you know why I pulled you over?"  He responded that he thought that because he was driving slowly that maybe the trooper thought he was drunk.  The trooper told him that one of the tail-lights was dim, hence the reason for the stop.  Sure enough, one of the tail-lights was dim because it was hazed-over from its years in the California sunshine. 

 

CL isn't an MMJ user or CG - just an atty who has done a few pro-bono cases for people caught-up in the system.  But if he had had MMJ in his vehicle, he may have been marked for life - not only in Michigan but throughout the US.  All because of a slightly dim tail light and an unnecessary traffic stop by LEO.  Sad, really.  I wonder how many MJ people have been caught-up in the LEO machine under similar circumstances.

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Really the most offensive part of the whole thing is that they are having an interaction that they simply cannot act upon under State law, and the patient is compelled to produce the card. They take that knowledge and translate it to "drug abuser" in the NICS database, keeping the patient from obtaining their next CPL or purchase permit, without even knowing that they have been flagged at the time.

 

?  So, what you're saying is that a perfectly legal MMJ cardholder might be stopped by LEO for whatever reason, and if the victim produces a card and is in compliance with the MMMA, the traffic stop might end without further escalation but the MMJ status is logged into a database such that if this person applies for a CPL, the MMJ status would be revealed and come back to haunt him?  Possibly denying his 2nd amendment rights?

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?  So, what you're saying is that a perfectly legal MMJ cardholder might be stopped by LEO for whatever reason, and if the victim produces a card and is in compliance with the MMMA, the traffic stop might end without further escalation but the MMJ status is logged into a database such that if this person applies for a CPL, the MMJ status would be revealed and come back to haunt him?  Possibly denying his 2nd amendment rights?

I doubt they could officially use it at all like that. We would already have heard about that. They can't use it in a way where you could trace it back to a specific traffic stop where you showed your card. They can only use it as an investigative tool to find a way to get something they CAN use in court. 

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I don't think that a database like that would survive as legal if it came to light. And if they were doing that already we would know it. It would be too obvious in a lot of situations where people were very private about their cannabis and no one could know other than the traffic stop. It would blow up in their faces and they wouldn't get to use the data base even covertly any more.  

Having a card doesn't prove you use anyway. So they couldn't bar you from having a gun because of something you could have done but they can't prove it. 

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