Ohioans Who Want To End The Drug War Should Vote Yes On Issue 3

[+Malamute]

Well, 

 

 Ohio is trying to pass a constitutional amendment.  Ignoring the issue  of the anti monopoly constitutional amendment and if both pass what happens,  it isn't easy to override a Con amendment.  Has to go back to the voters.

 

 

Legislative tampering

The Ohio General Assembly may repeal or amend an initiated statute by a simple majority vote. Changes to initiated amendments must follow the ordinary legislative process, which requires a three-fifths vote in both chambers of the state legislature and majority approval at a statewide election.

 

 

Also,  I think your pessimism about better laws if we work a little harder and longer is ill placed.  It can be better. You don't have to accept the first johnny come lately  proposal that is thrown in your face.  Sometimes it is really hard to get favourable changes after an initiative is passed.  They tend to not get better.  It isn't in the DNA of republican controlled governments to be all pro and helpful  to marijuana  issues.  You may get changes, but at what cost?  And in Ohio, it will be really hard to get changes because it is a Con. amendment.  That is great if the law was better. But unfortunately, it sucks and is so wrongheaded.

 

But Norby,.. breathe in some fresh air.  Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.

[beourbud]

Despite seeking opinions here and elsewhere, I have yet to get any answers. My concern being that when the consumer feeds the fat cat, the fat cat will grow more powerful. The fat cat I'm talking about could be a dispensary lobby group, LEO unions, or the limited licensees under the Ohio proposal, and more.

 

The more we fund the fat cat, the more powerful the fat cat grows and the more the fat cat can fight against our rights and our interests.

 

If MJ taxes or fees are supplied to LEO, LEO will fight full legalization tooth and nail.

 

If dispensaries are allowed to make huge profits, they will try to squeeze the little guy to increase profits even more. (See Arizona where patients lost grow rights if they live near dispensaries, or Washington where recreational sellers lobbied to get taxes raised on medical

 

Why would Ohio be any different if 10 people have the exclusive right to grow? Won't those 10 people use the huge profits they make so that they can throw up barriers for the little guy? Why wouldn't those already rich, soon to be richer 10 companies NOT try to change the law to ban personal grows and to prevent new growers from entering the market in four years?

 

Think of this in terms of Matty Moroun and the new Detroit-Windsor bridge. Moroun is filthy rich already, and he owns the only bridge between Detroit and Windsor. He's so rich, and so afraid of new competition that he spent over $31million to try to defeat the ballot initiative for the new bridge. And now that plans for the new bridge are in the making, he is buying-up historical homes in an old Windsor neighborhood and letting them fall apart, so that once the bridge is operating, he'll have prime real estate to build a truck plaza and other supporting businesses. The City of Windsor is actually trying to drag a case against him to the Canadian Supreme court to preserve these historical homes.

 

I just want to know why we should assume that the "lucky 10" in Ohio won't pull a Matty Moroun and spend big dollars to keep competition away - not only in Ohio, but in other states.

 

Imagine this law passing in Ohio. In a year or two, you'll see 10 very wealthy companies running existing large scale marijuana businesses. What's to stop them from dumping $30million+ into lobbying or supporting a ballot initiative in Michigan to eliminate the medical MJ program altogether and to implement a similar model in Michigan, this time without home grows? I can picture it now - they lobby the Michigan legislature with a couple of stories of BHO explosions, some moldy buds grown in a basement, some lab tests shown contamination of "black market" buds, some estimates of new tax revenue, oh....and a wheelbarrow full of cash. Look how easily the legislature passed the "Prairie Plant Systems" bill.

 

If Michigan has a republican controlled legislature and a republican governor, how much in campaign contributions will it take to get laws written the way the "Ohio 10" want?

Right On

 

Highlander wins the Internet for October

Edited October 31, 2015 by beourbud

[beourbud]

Take this bill and shove it. We don't trust you any more.

 

You act like you are helping us out, you're just corporate whores

 

Using the law to prison our youth and kickin in our doors.

 

Us folk just want to grow for ourselves, free from a bogus drug war.

 

Raids and arrests and forefieture , shooting our dogs and more

 

We the people have seen the light, we ain't taking it any more

 

So take this bill and shove it, We don't trust you greedy ho's

 

 

RIP. Johnny Paycheck

Edited October 31, 2015 by beourbud

[Norby]

Take this bill and shove it. We don't trust you any more.

 

You act like you are helping us out, your just a corporate whore

 

Using the law to prison our youth and kickin in our door.

 

Folk just want to grow for themselves, free from a bogus drug war.

 

Raids and arrests and forefieture , shooting our dogs and more

 

We the people have seen the light, we ain't taking it any more

 

So take this bill and shove it, We don't trust you greedy ho's

Wow such substance. This post adds so much to the topic.  Just think if you spent the time you do to tinkle off people who are on your side to ACTUALLY help do something for the movement instead of just mock people who don't have the same view as you.  Goood Morning!!!!!

So now you are backtracking Mal to show your dissaproval of the law to show support for Resto?  Get over it we have the same view, I just weigh the current people in need more. And they are trying to pass another constitutional amendment to null the cartel at the same exact time tomorrow. 

Give me a break.  I don't like it just the same as any of you but because I'd stick up for the ones who want it I'm a bad guy? Get over yourselves! You are selfishly holding out for decrim when tehy are going to just make the same laws after decrim.  At least with these ones it solidifies something voted on BY THE PEOPLE instead of IMPOSED BY A LEGISLATURE AFTERWARDS.

But no one wants to talk about that they want to make pretty poems they don't have to think about and stick to views which are far end and don't require any thought and to be obstructionists because tehre isn't a law they'd vote for other than complete decrim.  That puts them in Shuette's court for me.  If you won't think about others and the repercussions and demonize me while supporting the way things are......  Sounds pretty fricking crazy to me for people who have no initiatives on the table themselves.

[Restorium2]

Wow such substance. This post adds so much to the topic.  Just think if you spent the time you do to tinkle off people who are on your side to ACTUALLY help do something for the movement instead of just mock people who don't have the same view as you.  Goood Morning!!!!!

So now you are backtracking Mal to show your dissaproval of the law to show support for Resto?  Get over it we have the same view, I just weigh the current people in need more. And they are trying to pass another constitutional amendment to null the cartel at the same exact time tomorrow. 

Give me a break.  I don't like it just the same as any of you but because I'd stick up for the ones who want it I'm a bad guy? Get over yourselves! You are selfishly holding out for decrim when tehy are going to just make the same laws after decrim.  At least with these ones it solidifies something voted on BY THE PEOPLE instead of IMPOSED BY A LEGISLATURE AFTERWARDS.

But no one wants to talk about that they want to make pretty poems they don't have to think about and stick to views which are far end and don't require any thought and to be obstructionists because tehre isn't a law they'd vote for other than complete decrim.  That puts them in Shuette's court for me.  If you won't think about others and the repercussions and demonize me while supporting the way things are......  Sounds pretty fricking crazy to me for people who have no initiatives on the table themselves.

Leave the people problems you have out of it. This is not Days Of Our Lives dude. Just silently hate and post without addressing the people problems you have. Or start a new thread about it... on another web site.

[beourbud]

Norby you seem like a very bitter individual.

Why did you have to leave new york?

What brought you to Michigan.

Why are you lobbying for the monopoly in Ohio?

 

Your anger and vitriol come directly from the GOP play book.

 

Michiganders are unique and innovative, we solve problems because we are able to identify them.

 

You and schills like yourself are the problem.

 

Help us understand, did you come here to Michigan to grow dope or leech off the welfare system?

[Norby]

And who owns me Bill?  Society, cause I can't get along with out them and I know I have to compromise for us to move forward!!!

 

People like BB and Resto are the same as the far right.  You can argue for the extreme goals without ONLY accepting such.  They are just as much obstructionists as the far right.  They may be right(working for freedom) where as the far right is wrong(working towards enslavement, not with these bills but still working towards it as a whole) but still you have to have society on board to not push towards the extremes.  Their extreme view fuels the far rights extreme wing and turns people like me more away from teh movement because we don't want to align with obstructionists and extremists(See not really extremists but I'll use that word because it gets people riled and seems to be the theme when resto and bb are involved.  When in Rome?). 

[Norby]

Resto and BB you guys are on ignore till i see your actions change, probably shouldn't have taken them off ignore.  Sorry guys.   If it is that important, relay it thru someone else.  Or talk to the rest of the room.

[Restorium2]

Resto and BB you guys are on ignore till i see your actions change, probably shouldn't have taken them off ignore.  Sorry guys.   If it is that important, relay it thru someone else.  Or talk to the rest of the room.

Thank you. 

[Norby]

This is a law about Ohio and if it get's you that riled that you can't talk without insulting someone, maybe you should look at why you are so angry with someone else's view on something that doesn't even concern you and you can't even let them discuss it on this site. 

[beourbud]

I know someone who acts just like Norby when he can't get his way. Lies, parce's the truth, acts out, insults ....but he won't answer questions that may compromise his dubious shenanigans ....he is 7 years old.

 

Come on Norby enlighten us....what's your background. Mr 30 years testing.

 

Why come to Michigan if you don't like us.

 

Go to Cali or Colo or Wa if you don't like it here.

 

We the People of Michigan are tired of lame azzz welfare leeches from new york migrating to our Great State to exploit our MMMP

 

so what brings you?

Edited October 31, 2015 by beourbud

[t-pain]

I don't think free men would have to ask permission from the government regarding what they can grow and what they can put in their own bodies.

 

Who owns you?

 

says the person who pays they state to grow and use marijuana himself

[Greg Rx]

So, what I am saying is,.. give thanks to Resto and beorbud for being stringent and righteous in their cause.  Without people like them, we are TOTALLY phucked. 

 

Ohio would NOT have home growing without people fighting tooth and nail to stop the corporate marijuana monkeys and make them concede to allowing growing your own in some completely neutered fashion albeit.

 

I did say if I were in Ohio I would vote yes on this proposal. But only because it is better than what they have now, barely.  I would and have 100% opposed these people in Michigan though and would have opposed them fully in Ohio without the home growing addition they finally allowed. Voting for it even now in Ohio would make me feel dirty and scummy and I would know what a crappy thing I was voting for and how phucked Ohio will be in the future because of it being this way now.

 

 So, I agree with resto.  But I would also unfortunately vote for it if I were in Ohio's unique circumstance as it is. 

I could not disagree more! You three should look what is about to happen to your MM act, here in Michigan. Your only hope of keeping your grow rights is  MiLegalize. If Responsible Ohio passes it will help. If it fails we are all phucked.

[Norby]

You are pretty worried about those who can't use marijuana under the MMMA.

 

I guess I just don't see what protections ANY legalization method (other than deletion of the charging statutes in the public health code) grants to "recreational" marijuana users that they cannot get from the MMMA. There is only one possible protection, the enhancement of protections against search and seizure, which is completely dubious when a very low plant count is involved, like these proposals for Ohio and Michigan.

 

I've seen affidavits for search warrants that claim they can tell there are too many plants inside because of the "overwhelming" smell from outside the house. The magistrate will rubber stamp that in many places.

 

We need the bad laws eliminated, not new dubious laws to trick the masses into thinking they are protected from raid and arrest.

So protect the people from themselves? 

why not let them know what's going on with lega, sorry quasi legalization so we can get them on our side?

So get rid of the judges?

So where is your guarantee that anything like that will ever happen(decrim)?

I've said mimicry will protect a lot of people.

Ohio doesn't have a med law.

You have to wonder why some would push so much against a legalization law which will protect people or show them the truth and get more on our side.  let the courts get filled with so many cases of wrongful arrest that they bankrupt the ability for them to do anything from getting sued.  Right now they are just fillling up the courts till they get too packed to do anything, that;s the way it will go no matter what the laws till something snaps.  This strategy isn't really working now is it?  They are just rolling back on any laws passed anywhere anyway.  So where's the momentum for something you say can be done but I haven't seen anything of it yet.  It's like you're trying to get me to believe in dragons but you say they'll dissappear teh next day after you see them anyway.  Why hold out for decrim if no one is going to do it and it's washed away the next day?  Why not be proactive and do it yourself so you know what you get.  It seems to me like decrim just sets up a clean slate for them to pass whatever they want in the legislature.

So where are my guarantees!!!

Somethings fishy with the story.

[Greg Rx]

I know someone who acts just like Norby when he can't get his way. Lies, parce's the truth, acts out, insults ....but he won't answer questions that may compromise his dubious shenanigans ....he is 7 years old.

 

Come on Norby enlighten us....what's your background. Mr 30 years testing.

 

Why come to Michigan if you don't like us.

 

Go to Cali or Colo or Wa if you don't like it here.

 

We the People of Michigan are tired of lame azzz welfare leeches from new york migrating to our Great State to exploit our MMMP

 

so what brings you?

Careful Skippy, I have always thought "welfare leaches" applied to a number of people on this forum.

[beourbud]

We are only phucked if we continue to allow fknrepublicans to continue the War on Drugs

 

What our repub legislature and the monopoly bill in Ohio does is perpetuate the WOD.

 

You can and will be oppressed until we FREE the WEED and Remove cannabis from the criminal code.

 

The first step is to VOTE all repubs out of office. The democrats are for Decriminalization .

 

We the People are taking our House and Senate and governor back.

Then we will move to decrim completely. This is the Solution!

 

Al these bogus propositions currently are the GOP desperately trying to keep some semblance of control after they are thrown out of office. We are wise to that and say HELLL NO. We juanna to Grow.

 

Get off our Grass.

Edited October 31, 2015 by beourbud

[beourbud]

Careful Skippy, I have always thought "welfare leaches" applied to a number of people on this forum.

You are probably correct, unfortunately.

There are genuine people in need and then there are those who scam the system (leaches)

The worst are those Manipulating the system to profit off disabled kids.

I am All for helping out those in need, just not so much the ones motivated by greed.

 

What motivates you?

Edited October 31, 2015 by beourbud

[Restorium2]

It just puzzles me, knowing the problems cannabis users face in this state, that some people think the solution to the issue is to give many people fewer protections. It shows a severe misunderstanding of the legal and political pressures we face as patients and caregivers.

Doesn't puzzle me at all. It's only puzzling when you start with the wrong given cause. Work your way backwards from what someone wants to where their journey began. Then everything makes sense. Warning; The truth can get scary. Is it really a misunderstanding? Or a keen understanding with a different motive?

[Wild Bill]

 Who owns you, gheesh.  Frame it in a well thought out response without the code and I'll answer better.

 

Who do you believe has the power to tell you what you can or cannot grow? Who has the power to tell you what you can or cannot consume? Who do you depend on to make your decisions for you?

 

Who is your master? Who is your owner? Do you think the government owns you or do you consider yourself to be a free man?

 

The Ohio proposal in no way ends the drug war, it merely repackages it. There will still be criminal penalties for those who disobey those who claim to be the masters.

[t-pain]

More people in the courts, less protection. You don't see the issue? Fewer protections, in fact, means more people in court.

 

This is not about mimicry. There is a place for just about anyone in the MMMA, with the exception of healthy kids and certain healthy felons. I contend that being a caregiver affords significantly more protections than any legalization scheme I've seen so far, with the exception being those that start by removing the public health code charging statutes/schedule for marijuana and derivatives.

if i heard this from anyone else i would let it pass. but coming from you, you who are a witness on a daily basis the amount of caregivers and patients AND THEIR CHILDREN caught up in court , i cannot understand your position that the MMMA provides for more protections than a legalization law.

 

currently as it sits in current case law that is, not our shared theory on how the mmma should apply if properly understood by the court.

[Restorium2]

if i heard this from anyone else i would let it pass. but coming from you, you who are a witness on a daily basis the amount of caregivers and patients AND THEIR CHILDREN caught up in court , i cannot understand your position that the MMMA provides for more protections than a legalization law.

 

currently as it sits in current case law that is, not our shared theory on how the mmma should apply if properly understood by the court.

He said,  "I contend that being a caregiver affords significantly more protections than any legalization scheme I've seen so far"

 

One obvious advantage is growing 72 plants legally. Why do you miss things that are so obvious T? 

[t-pain]

He said,  "I contend that being a caregiver affords [/size]significantly more protections than any legalization scheme I've seen so far"[/size]

 

One obvious advantage is growing 72 plants legally. Why do you miss things that are so obvious T?

he and i are talking about protections, not plant limits, resto.

[t-pain]

jury trials will be nicer when marijuana is legalized though. unlike your experience with jury trials and caregivers now.

[Restorium2]

jury trials will be nicer when marijuana is legalized though. unlike your experience with jury trials and caregivers now.

We have had a great marijuana jury trial in my area. Just fantastic. I think you are miss characterizing the situation in two directions at once. Quasi legalization doesn't change the juries at all. 

[Restorium2]

It's just really hard to find something good to hang your hat on. I do feel sorry for the defenders of a terrible idea. Standing there with no cloths on when the lights came on.