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On Ballot, Ohio Grapples With Specter Of Marijuana Monopoly


zachw

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Was Grandholm, a former prosecutor, the right Democratic governor?

 

Would Hillary be the right Democratic president?

Nope, Granholm was from the past. A dinosaur.

 

The ® candidate will be Schuette.

 

The (D) machine is already lining up an ex cop pot phobe.

 

We need to fix that or go totally independent with our next governor. We don't need an ex cop as governor. We need someone more balanced and less warped by being a member of law enforcement for all those years. Let em know that. They want to put an ex cop up because they say he 'can win'. That's the only reason I have heard so far. It's a totally back arsewards way to think. Dinosauresc ....

 

Bernie for pres. 

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There is a shortcut: Get the right governor and we are golden. 

We tried that in 14 and I did what I could.  Unfortunately a lot of people don't vote based on cannabis laws and don't listen to others how to vote. If that's our only hope we're screwed and i'd like to help in changing things more thorough and faster, considering it's a slim chance.  Was/is there even a list of candidates to make things easier than doing the research of finding out what each candidate says, more importantly how they vote?  Are there even enough candidates with a chance?  I generally vote green party or some other 3rd party which stands for decrim but where do I look to find these candidates that have a chance of winning?

What about a letter writing campaign?  There has to be something else that can focus on MJ without having to win every place in the state in an election.  Maybe supporting people going to court for MJ offenses, ANY MJ offenses?  Anything else that's actually workeable by a small/large # of people that doesn't involve voting?

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Nope, Granholm was from the past. A dinosaur.

 

The ® candidate will be Schuette.

 

The (D) machine is already lining up an ex cop pot phobe.

 

We need to fix that or go totally independent with our next governor. We don't need an ex cop as governor. We need someone more balanced and less warped by being a member of law enforcement for all those years. Let em know that. They want to put an ex cop up because they say he 'can win'. That's the only reason I have heard so far. It's a totally back arsewards way to think. Dinosauresc ....

 

Bernie for pres. 

Unless he's/she's a member of LEAP.

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I wouldn't put all my chips on milegal. It's not close enough to Decriminalization.

I would be surprised if it collects enough signatures.

 

Now by contrast I have yet to meet anyone opposed to Complete Decriminqlization except republicans

 

My comment is dripping with sarcasm.  In the future I shall note my sarcasm :)

I am not in any way shape or form behind legalization and have not been for nearly 40yrs.

At about age 20 I began to think for myself and was often chided for my beliefs... now here we

are and I am still getting beat up for my belief.  I still will not waver from what I know is the right

path.

 

Abrogate Prohibition Michigan 2016-BMLCMC

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Hey Beourbud,

Do you live and vote in Ohio?

If not stop with the " We the people" crap.

If you did not vote you cannot lump yourself in with Ohios electorate.

Or " We the people of Ohio".

Stop it.

I live in Ohio and voted yes.

I voted so that 6500 Non violent marijuana offense only prisoners could be released from prison/ jail.

That's who I voted for.

But Hey thanks for backing continued failed Prohibitionists programs.

Jail time for possession and petty sales or transport.

The separating of families because of medical usage by the parents.

Thanks for looking out for other people.

Not.

This changes almost nothing for me, but for others it could have made a Huge Positive Impact.

Thanks for thinking of the people that are sitting in jail for marijuana, and their families at home who love and miss them.

Thanks for the support.

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I am speaking of all users Zap.

Wether they be medical or recreational.

It make Zero difference to me.

Zilp zilch nada.

Who is to state medical necessity but our bodies and minds.

Is No step forward a step forward?

That would be the question in my mind.

It seems as if you guys are insulated in your Michigan medical bubble.

For all Ohio users there is Zero protections.

That would have changed that.

Sure it would have imposed restrictions, but I would have that rather that Police doing whatever they pleased because of pot.

There were at least 10 cars/trucks pulled over and being searched Wednesday on the Ohio turnpike when I drove from Toledo home.

While normally you would see 0-2 on that same drive two weeks ago.

Aren't you glad we green-lighted that behavior on Tuesday?

I am not..

I care not for money, but for freedom.

Restrictions were placed but it was better than the above happening.

Hey Beourbud,

Where is weed free like tomatoes?

That's right Nowhere..not Holland, not Uraguay,, not Spain, not Colorado, not Washington, Not Oregon, not Alaska not Washington D.C., not Anywhere?

Yout worldview is not shared by 95% of the worlds population.

Sheesh be real people.. Not living in Fantasyland.

It will Never Be Free..

That is the truth...

Deny it if you will, the fact remains.

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I am speaking of all users Zap.

Wether they be medical or recreational.

It make Zero difference to me.

Zilp zilch nada.

Who is to state medical necessity but our bodies and minds.

Is No step forward a step forward?

That would be the question in my mind.

It seems as if you guys are insulated in your Michigan medical bubble.

For all Ohio users there is Zero protections.

That would have changed that.

Sure it would have imposed restrictions, but I would have that rather that Police doing whatever they pleased because of pot.

There were at least 10 cars/trucks pulled over and being searched Wednesday on the Ohio turnpike when I drove from Toledo home.

While normally you would see 0-2 on that same drive two weeks ago.

Aren't you glad we green-lighted that behavior on Tuesday?

I am not..

I care not for money, but for freedom.

Restrictions were placed but it was better than the above happening.

Hey Beourbud,

Where is weed free like tomatoes?

That's right Nowhere..not Holland, not Uraguay,, not Spain, not Colorado, not Washington, Not Oregon, not Alaska not Washington D.C., not Anywhere?

Yout worldview is not shared by 95% of the worlds population.

Sheesh be real people.. Not living in Fantasyland.

It will Never Be Free..

That is the truth...

Deny it if you will, the fact remains.

We were speaking about all users too. The law you advocated for just hurt all users across the country. Gave the prohibitionists and large money interests a monopoly they can use to further to enslave all of us. If you are going to advocate for something it's best to understand the big picture and not focus on some small aspect that you like. 

You should know by now we would have this all well thought out before we reached the conclusions that we outlined here. 

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I generally vote green party or some other 3rd party which stands for decrim but where do I look to find these candidates that have a chance of winning?

 

If you vote for a candidate with "a chance of winning" you're going to vote for the same thing we've been getting for years. The only way to get things to change is to vote on principal and vote for the person that you genuinely believe is best for the job.

 

The two halves of the party that run the country are very worried that folks will wise up to this and don't want to lose any votes to third parties. They've been doing everything they can to deny ballot access for years.

 

Do you want someone in office that reflects your beliefs or do you want someone who isn't quite as bad as the other guy?

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I wish we could explain better why it is counterproductive to jump on the pseudo-legalization bandwagon, especially when it is a matter like this that has programmed in extra criminality for regular people, just to help support a business model for a relative few. It really is not apparent, still.

 

I do not think that incremental progress will work in a positive sense. If it has any effect it is for more people to see the waste of the drug war, but is seeing it from the inside of the machine through arrest and prosecution really what is desired for marijuana? The answer should be clearly no, but it is not clear to many.

Oh, there are many ways to make a better reasoned rebuttal.  One simple one is More Laws Create More Criminals.

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In my view incremental progress will always be one step forward one step back. We've seen the way they've attempted to nullify the medical law through legislation, bizarre court rulings and local prohibitions that are clearly illegal as defined in the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act.

 

The only way to keep everyone safe is to remove all criminal penalties for cannabis.

 

It's not a difficult concept. Repeal all the cannabis laws put in place since 1937. That should be our end goal. Anything short of that will leave the prohibitionists with plenty of ammo to use against us.

100% correct. But the path there has been what has been elusive it would seem.  

 

As we are all aware, Prohibition is not only an utter failure, the War on Drugs is a War on People, All of them, but particularly the Family Base by means of arrests and prosecutions.

But knowing all the steps that brought us here, is important to know as we walk back to the start and chose a more wise path forward.  We (the Country) were intentionally deceived and our paths diverted for undeniably devious means.  That is still happening today. The problem has been we the people have left the indignant minded of Government to fix this issue for us.  But Government Made this issue for us.  How does appealing to the creator of the War on People to fix the War on People tend to work out?

 

As we are all very well aware, or at least should be, is the Federal Government did not have in 1937, the Constitutional Authority to create the Marihuana Tax Act as proven in Leary vs US where it was ruled the Marihuana Tax Act was ruled Unconstitutional by US Federal or Supreme Court (don't remember which) in 1969.

US Congress then remove the verbiage and struck the Marihuana Tax Act in 1970, in the verbiage that created the Controlled Substances and Drug Abuse Act of 1970, which did not just keep Cannabis prohibited, but expanded the prohibitions list adding many things to it.   Now, if the Marihuana Tax Act was Unconstitutional, and ruled so by US Court, then why is the Controlled Substances Act not also Unconstitutional Legislation as it is only a more expanded version of the Marihuana Tax Stamp Act?

 

Yet no one in the Legal Profession has ever seemed to ask themselves this one question.  One should be inquisitive of why that is the case?

 

No instead, the game has been to leave it to government,  beg government to fix it's woes against us, leave it to government to interpret plain and clear language as put forth by the Founders of this State, and this Nation.   

 

Now, it is important to remember and contemplate on this issue.

If the Federal Government supposed Supremacy Clause, had absolutely ANY authority on the Prohibition of Cannabis to begin with, then why is it that the Federal Government did not sue California in 1996, as opposed to trying to persuade State Officials with Fed Gov Grants to fight it for them?

If the Fed Supremacy clause had any real teeth, the Federal Gov would have taken the State of California to US Court over the medical allowance of Cannabis as put into the Cali Constitution by Prop 215 in 1996, thus showing they have the Power of Federal Supremacy over the States in the issue of Cannabis Prohibitions.  They did not do that, because that is not a power enumerated to the Federal Government by the 'States' as clearly detailed in the 10th Amendment of the Constitution of the united States of America.

 

 

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Clearly, what we the people did not allow to the Federal Government through the States,  and what We did not give the States in our State Constitutions, we the people retain for ourselves. No ifs ands or buts, unless we just continue to stand down and beg our Servants to treat us better. hmpf...

 

This is outlined in Article 1, section 1 of the Michigan Constitution where it says 

 

STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT)

CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963

 

§ 1 Political power.

 

Sec. 1.

All political power is inherent in the people. Government is instituted for their equal benefit, security and protection.

Thus We the People are the Political Power of the State of Michigan and not the government, which includes the executive, judicial and legislative branches of Michigan Government, but absolutely does not give the power to Political Power Groups called Democrats or Republicans.

The Constitution of this State is given its Authority by We the People, not the derelicts in Lansing D.C. waving their Red and Blue Flags of Political Power.

 

We have allowed the Political Groups of the day run roughshot over the Constitution and We the People, and the State as a whole has suffered immensely because of it for the last 40 plus years.  In 1970, the State of Michigan legislature had then, and they still today, have ZERO Authority to implement or maintain the State Controlled Substances Act over We the People.  It was plainly unconstitutional on the Federal Level to begin with, and per the Constitution of Michigan, and the 9th Amendment of the United States, just as unconstitutional on the State level.  No where in the Mi Constitution does it give Lansing D.C. the authority to regulate our personal or intrastate interactions with pretty much Anything, and especially cannabis.

I have read through this document often, and still have not found where it gives Lansing D.C. the Constitutional Authority to regulate the Peoples interactions with any plant, let alone a specific one like cannabis.  Maybe I'm missing it.  Perhaps someone can find it and point it out for me.

 

 

STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT)

CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963 Article I

DECLARATION OF RIGHTS 

Document Type Description Article I § 1 Section Political power. Article I § 2 Section Equal protection; discrimination. Article I § 3 Section Assembly, consultation, instruction, petition. Article I § 4 Section Freedom of worship and religious belief; appropriations. Article I § 5 Section Freedom of speech and of press. Article I § 6 Section Bearing of arms. Article I § 7 Section Military power subordinate to civil power. Article I § 8 Section Quartering of soldiers. Article I § 9 Section Slavery and involuntary servitude. Article I § 10 Section Attainder; ex post facto laws; impairment of contracts. Article I § 11 Section Searches and seizures. Article I § 12 Section Habeas corpus. Article I § 13 Section Conduct of suits in person or by counsel. Article I § 14 Section Jury trials. Article I § 15 Section Double jeopardy; bailable offenses; commencement of trial if bail denied; bail hearing; effective date. Article I § 16 Section Bail; fines; punishments; detention of witnesses. Article I § 17 Section Self-incrimination; due process of law; fair treatment at investigations. Article I § 18 Section Witnesses; competency, religious beliefs. Article I § 19 Section Libels, truth as defense. Article I § 20 Section Rights of accused in criminal prosecutions. Article I § 21 Section Imprisonment for debt. Article I § 22 Section Treason; definition, evidence. Article I § 23 Section Enumeration of rights not to deny others. Article I § 24 Section Rights of crime victims; enforcement; assessment against convicted defendants. Article I § 25 Section Marriage. Article I § 26 Section Affirmative action programs. Article I § 27 Section Human embryo and embryonic stem cell research.

Furthermore, the 9th Amendment of the Constitution of the united States of America is very clear what is not put to the 10th, is otherwise vested with in the people ourselves in ALL states.

 

 

 

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

This is why the only way to address this cannabis issue, with a real solution in Michigan, is to address it at the constitutional level, fully REMOVING Lansing D.C. and the Red and Blue flag wavers of the state (which only make up about 35% of the Registered Voters) authority or ability to continue the charade under the guise of the 'welfare' of the State..., 

 

315,000 qualified signatures puts a Peoples Initiated Direct Constitutional Amendment on the Next Ballot.  It does not pass go, it does not collect 200.00 and it can not be dicked with by those dickers in Lansing D.C.  For the State Legislature to make "Constitutional Changes" anything they premise, must then go to the ballot for the people to vote on.  By changing the State Constitution, we Dictate Exactly what the State Can Not Do... And there is nothing the Red or Blue Flag wavers can do but tinkle themselves having their hissy fits.

 

But don't mind me, I'm just a set of flapping lips.

Edited by Timmahh
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it would be a 51% majority vote to put new laws against cannabis on the books.

 

please explain how it would be "much more difficult", I do not understand your reasoning.

This is where you would do well getting very familiar with the differences in Indirect Legislative Statues ( Bills passed like the MMM A and all 3 of the current legalized recreational pot options being presented) and Constitutional Amendments (Direct Legislated Amendment).

 

We the People are the true Political Authority over the State Constitution. Anything we add or remove from the State Constitution, which can only happen by Statewide vote whether it is we the people or state legislature that wants to modify, change the Constitution, is what the 3 Branches of State Government must Abide Under.  If legislature wants to change something in the Constitution, they need to make language and present it at the next allowable election for the people to vote on.  If it doesn't pass, it is just wasted trees and ink.

 

By contrast, you can see how an Indirect Legislative Statute has been working out. This is just a set of guidelines given to Legislation to follow, but they have authority to change (the indirect part), without the people being able to vote on it.  And as we have seen with the MMM A, even have our concerns heard, let alone addressed, and pretty much blatantly ignored.

 

The hard truth is all 3 current legalized recreational dope bills being presented are flawed on their face. First and foremost because they are all indirect legislated statutes, aka no different by way of law than the MMM Act is.  So just like the MMM Act, Lansing D.C. can cut and dice it any way they want to Like they are doing with the MMM Act in 4209, 4210, 4827, SB660 ect...

Lansing D.C. have even been very clear and forthcoming, the changes to the MMM Act are the foundation of what to expect under legalized recreational dope when it is given to them under more poorly detailed legislation.

 

Under a Constitutional Amendment, Lansing D.C.s hands would be tied, Thus Big Monees hands would be far more limited to stealing the entire cookie jar as they did with Alcohol after the lifting of Prohibition by getting congress to institute unconstitutional language. one of which being the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937.

 

After Alcohol Prohibition Repeal (which was actually done by constitutional amendment as we are all aware), the Purple Gang didn't just dry up and blow away, they Relocated to Washington, D.C. form Detroit, and became the Federal Governments Regulation Arm of the newly created ATF, and of course the lobbyist that further usher in "Alcohol Legalization".

 

 

If you want to see the future of recreational legalized dope, just look at the rest of the legalized recreational marketplace. Alcohol, Prescription Pills, Even Cigarettes are legal, right up until you are going to jail for them, or being arrested and choked to death for tax evasion....

 

Is that what we really want for Michigan?

Edited by Timmahh
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Then there is the entire issue that may arise out of two poorly handled marihuana bills, which is between the Legislation and the Court, there could arise a Constitutional Crises.

As clearly seen in Mi vs Mazure, the State Supreme Court is clearly at odds with itself with just the MMM Act. Imagine how decisive it will be when the people foolishly give them an entirely new way to create more "legal" legislative gray areas, thus requiring the despots in Lansing D.C. to step in and "Fix it for us"...

This is a chess game.  If you can not follow along with the moves being made, please return your seat to the upright position and watch the movie and let the players play. lol

The moves being presented over the last decade are very very clear.  State Capture of Private Markets for the Big Business aka Big Pharma.... 
If one can not see that coming, then you are not looking past the fog from that joint at the end of your own fingers.

There is no denying passing a legalized recreational bill could very well trigger a major Legal/Constitutional Crisis in Michigan. To ignore that as a clear potential would be very shortsighted, and utterly foolish lack of contemplation and or comprehension of where this game is headed.

So the next question should be, if that potential does arise, what is the states likely next step?  I would say they would scrap both the MMM Act, and the newly passed Recreational Legalized Pot bill, and go back to what worked so well over the last 40 years.  I mean the State had utter Control, there were none of these bad peoples initiated gray areas they had to fix and solve for us dump voters.  Everything was going Smooth as Silk before 2008 for the State, So I suspect they ll decide to go back to that, while having the list of over 6 yrs of Registered and Recommended Patient and Caregivers, and all that idle information in the LEIN System.  What to do what to do....

Edited by Timmahh
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so we decrim statewide, no more cannabis laws in the state mcl.

 

great.

 

what about cities like wyoming, livonia, west bloomfield that have local ordinances banning anything thats illegal federally?

 

deal with them on a city to city basis?

If the State itself can not enforce federally unconstitutional edict, then neither can the cities in that state.

 

Teach your County/City Board the Constitution of Mi, and the united States of American, and if they are too dumb to learn, vote them out or prosecute them. Everyone commits 3 felonies a day, whether they know it or not.  Use the power of our Constitution, or ignore it at your own peril.

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Nope, Granholm was from the past. A dinosaur.

 

The ® candidate will be Schuette.

 

The (D) machine is already lining up an ex cop pot phobe.

 

We need to fix that or go totally independent with our next governor. We don't need an ex cop as governor. We need someone more balanced and less warped by being a member of law enforcement for all those years. Let em know that. They want to put an ex cop up because they say he 'can win'. That's the only reason I have heard so far. It's a totally back arsewards way to think. Dinosauresc ....

 

Bernie for pres. 

Had me right up to the very last 3 words.  Burny is the LAST thing this country needs.  A devote communist calling himself a socialist is NOT the way forward, Unless you really admire Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, and Mao.

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I understand that Ohio has decriminalization for everyone. How does that factor into this decision in your eyes?

 

Can we move this conversation to the Ohio thread?

Where do you get this from?  Anyone with an 100gr in their house may be fine but on the road in 2 bags they can slap transport on which is a felony and carries jail time.  If you have one type in one bag maybe it is "decrim". This should have stopped the smell from being a reason to search, that's huge.

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I am speaking of all users Zap.

Wether they be medical or recreational.

It make Zero difference to me.

Zilp zilch nada.

Who is to state medical necessity but our bodies and minds.

Is No step forward a step forward?

That would be the question in my mind.

It seems as if you guys are insulated in your Michigan medical bubble.

For all Ohio users there is Zero protections.

That would have changed that.

Sure it would have imposed restrictions, but I would have that rather that Police doing whatever they pleased because of pot.

There were at least 10 cars/trucks pulled over and being searched Wednesday on the Ohio turnpike when I drove from Toledo home.

While normally you would see 0-2 on that same drive two weeks ago.

Aren't you glad we green-lighted that behavior on Tuesday?

I am not..

I care not for money, but for freedom.

Restrictions were placed but it was better than the above happening.

Hey Beourbud,

Where is weed free like tomatoes?

That's right Nowhere..not Holland, not Uraguay,, not Spain, not Colorado, not Washington, Not Oregon, not Alaska not Washington D.C., not Anywhere?

Yout worldview is not shared by 95% of the worlds population.

Sheesh be real people.. Not living in Fantasyland.

It will Never Be Free..

That is the truth...

Deny it if you will, the fact remains.

Unlike Michigan the MJ law in Ohio is not that bad for minor possession.

http://norml.org/laws/item/ohio-penalties-2

 

We the People of Ohio came out to fight the monopoly

We the People kicked azz.

You and your opinion are in the minority of voters. 2:1

Deny it if you will, the fact remains.

The only way to succeed is to Free the Weed

Edited by beourbud
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If the proposal didn't explicitly give them permission and funding to hammer everybody that falls outside their tiny exemption rules, it would get support. Period.

 

The idea that some think any proposal that may help any small group of people, while allowing or enabling the continued terrorization of everybody else, is confusing to me.

 

This is, of course, off-topic, but I felt compelled to respond to this.

You have to hit that at the courts where the problems lies, it's different issues and you can't wrap that up in legalization, the people have to fight for that at the courts.  If they don't have anyone to prosecute them then the cops will get bunny muffin for sending so many non issues to the courts.  You can't write into law to stop the cops from harassing people.  It should be obvious thru what has happened here.  You blame it on the language of the law but it's not the language of the law, it's the will of the people is being surpressed.  How many cities have legalized?  How long has the law been in and how much have they fought?  The law protected us from tehm doing much more and much worse as flawed as the language is. They tried to use post it notes as paraphenalia. That is a problem that can't be solved at the polls by us. 

Trying to find a political solution when people don't vote strictly on mj, well maybe except for me, is like herding cats, it's not going to happen.  Either you have to sit on the steps in Lansing with signs, go to court cases to sway judges, or only elect sheriffs and brass from the LEAP list.  Unless you get the judges out which control the police thru prosecuting, I don't see a way to anything else.  And we don't have the #'s unless there is a law enacted here to get more people in the  boat to fight, if not we're fuked, look at where the dispense and medible laws went.  We can't fight this with it being illegal still.

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